General Discussion

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)

43. I dont think this is an attempt to "rewrite" history as to bring it back to life.

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:38 PM

Feb 2013

I think it comes down to what the meaning of "is" is. Or rather the meaning of "tricked". If the definition of "tricked" includes those that wanted to be "tricked" then there were lots and lots of people tricked. But the important issue is not whether we were tricked but whether our government tried to trick us. Was their intent to deceive us? That's what we need to concentrate on. How many people went along, whether tricked or not is not the main issue.

The history needs to be readdressed and I think that possibly Dr. Maddow wants to let those guilty of complicity at the level of the masses by allowing the "we were tricked" meme to be out there. Without it those guilty of following Bush, the Dim-Son, might be defensive and try to justify that Bush and Co. had bad intelligence.

George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, Rummy, etc. all lied to us and should be punished, irregardless of how many of us actually feel for the lies.

I notice your detractors would rather make the issue about you and ignore the real issue.

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Why this sudden push to rewrite history about the Iraq war? [View all] MadHound Feb 2013 OP

"DUer's ... wanted to go in anyway because Saddam was evil" Kolesar Feb 2013 #1

Go check it out in the archives, MadHound Feb 2013 #6

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #14

If you disagree, please provide your evidence. Name calling should be beneath Democrats. nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #26

Discord is a bad thing? MuseRider Feb 2013 #27

Calling You Out For An Ad Hominen Attack Which is Against DU Rules cantbeserious Feb 2013 #52

"Bush Administrator (sic) sympathizers" are NOT the "American public", far from it. George II Feb 2013 #57

Ahh, Criticism By Word Parsing I See - Go Reread The Original Post cantbeserious Feb 2013 #58

I've read it several times, don't have time to point out each and every fallacy in it. George II Feb 2013 #62

Well Then - We Will Have To Agree To Disagree cantbeserious Feb 2013 #64

Okay, insultings post notwithstanding, here you go: George II Feb 2013 #94

Different Points Of View - That's What Makes A Democracy Go Around cantbeserious Feb 2013 #95

Facts can be a powerful weapon against speculation George II Feb 2013 #99

I Lived Through The Discussion At DU - Those Are My Facts cantbeserious Feb 2013 #100

That's a long period of time for lurking George II Feb 2013 #105

There are many long time lurkers at DU. shcrane71 Feb 2013 #107

My Online Life Has Had Many Reincarnations cantbeserious Feb 2013 #108

Anybody paying close attention could see the signs GoneFishin Feb 2013 #130

Thank you George II Gary 50 Feb 2013 #138

Well, that was incisive. Thanks for sharing. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #77

Please tell me this is an Onion Post DonB Feb 2013 #104

welcome to DU riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #153

Welcome to DU - very well stated and exactly the way it was Tumbulu Feb 2013 #154

Welcome to DU Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #179

I was here then. If there was a contingent of pro-war-w/-Iraq people here... Cooley Hurd Feb 2013 #118

We can't access it anymore because that was DU.1 Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #122

People's attitudes were coerced by neocons bjobotts Feb 2013 #150

There are always DUers who line up on the side of wrongheadedness. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #11

Where did I even say that? Stop sticking words in my mouth. MadHound Feb 2013 #16

None of the above. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #20

YOU are the one that needs to prove your assertion. That DU'ers largely supported Iraq fiasco. KittyWampus Feb 2013 #25

Where did he say DU largely supported the war? Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #40

I see no apology or proof from two responders. Festivito Feb 2013 #128

Actually, MH is remembering right. Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #172

This message was self-deleted by its author trumad Feb 2013 #2

You are wrong on this, the people were deceived. Many did not support the invasion of Iraq. we can do it Feb 2013 #3

And many that did support the invasion did so because they believed the lies of the bush admin. George II Feb 2013 #60

Bingo! patricia92243 Feb 2013 #78

Exactly. we can do it Feb 2013 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author Dash87 Feb 2013 #133

Yeah, As If I'm Going To Shoulder Cheney's Guilt On Anything. Dream On. (nt) Paladin Feb 2013 #4

I agree, mostly alarimer Feb 2013 #5

Oh, it wasn't the majority of DU folks, MadHound Feb 2013 #7

And five, there isn't a draft, which means most people wouldn't have to worry about their loved ones raccoon Feb 2013 #137

But America WAS tricked, just like our politicians were tricked. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #8

But gasser85 Feb 2013 #148

Wow, have you forgotten the media complicity, kohodog Feb 2013 #9

US media was complicit. Anyone who looked elsewhere knew better... tuvor Feb 2013 #28

How about GP6971 Feb 2013 #41

I forgot about the duct tape!! kohodog Feb 2013 #73

If I remember right GP6971 Feb 2013 #86

+1. . . .n/t annabanana Feb 2013 #45

Agree it wasn't "Blood Lust of Average American" it was the Drum Beat KoKo Feb 2013 #79

I had so many people tell me I was wrong Smilo Feb 2013 #170

Surely a lot of people supported the invasion... tarheelsunc Feb 2013 #10

I think they gave too much weight to Bill Clinton's analysis that military force was needed blm Feb 2013 #65

Democrats voting for war... Gary 50 Feb 2013 #140

We were willing dupes, but you cannot ignore the duplicity. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #12

many of us were not MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #22

You took my "we" literally. I was referring to the entire country that, on average, supported it. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #24

From what I remember about the time, this OP is unfortunately true........ socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #13

As I seem to recall jollyreaper2112 Feb 2013 #15

And unfortunately the new administration (Obama) chose not to look back kohodog Feb 2013 #23

The concept of not looking back The Wizard Feb 2013 #67

You misread me jollyreaper2112 Feb 2013 #139

Wow. Just.....wow. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #17

Oh please. Many MANY American protested. And many supported war because they were lied to. KittyWampus Feb 2013 #18

It's true that a lot of people did know they were lying. Certainly every member sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #19

I think its clear from Rachels special tonight that most people in congress did not know. stevenleser Feb 2013 #157

Sorry those of us who were there at the time, watching all this, know that sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #173

Senator Graham had special access as a member of the intel committee that other members of stevenleser Feb 2013 #174

No, I am not remembering the 'whole thing in its entirety'. I am remembering sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #175

I know who you were talking about. Bob Graham. I spoke with him several times. stevenleser Feb 2013 #178

It's not attempting to rewrite history, but an attempt to EXPOSE history MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #21

Two thumbs up. N/T icnorth Feb 2013 #56

I agree with you but I do not remember too many who were for the war. MuseRider Feb 2013 #29

It's true that many people were eager to invade Iraq, Arkansas Granny Feb 2013 #30

exactly, when the people who make these calls are broadcasting bold faced lies... pasto76 Feb 2013 #42

This falls squarely on George W. Bush, period. Coyotl Feb 2013 #31

I completely agree... OneMoreDemocrat Feb 2013 #92

There is one bid diff, We the People are not the subjects of war crime laws, our leaders are though! Coyotl Feb 2013 #101

If everyone knew the truth, why was there a need to lie then? FleetwoodMac Feb 2013 #32

That was excellent life long demo Feb 2013 #59

Thank you. We should also add the lives and blood of the unborn... FleetwoodMac Feb 2013 #124

Thank you. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #93

It's like wearing silver/garlic necklaces 24x7 - in case werewolves & vampires are real... FleetwoodMac Feb 2013 #123

Well put. rgbecker Feb 2013 #33

Depends on where you were getting your news. Lil Missy Feb 2013 #34

NBC and CNN were just as complicit Carolina Feb 2013 #180

I completely disagree with you. proud2BlibKansan Feb 2013 #35

I agree with you, Proud2BlibKansan Carolina Feb 2013 #181

That's PARTLY true, but not enough to have made it happen... JHB Feb 2013 #36

I respectfully disagree. Kablooie Feb 2013 #37

Many Dems were even banging the war drums in the Clinton years davidn3600 Feb 2013 #38

Why are you trying to re-write history? jazzimov Feb 2013 #39

I dont think this is an attempt to "rewrite" history as to bring it back to life. rhett o rick Feb 2013 #43

To a much, much smaller extent, the type of thinking leading up to the invasion of Iraq, are RC Feb 2013 #102

Well said. If you dont like the message, attack the messanger. nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #103

It's a hoax to suggest that every Dem who supported the Iraq War was hoaxed into it. leveymg Feb 2013 #44

The media is no longer afraid of the GOP. randome Feb 2013 #46

I joined DU in 2002, which was heavily against the war BEFORE invading Iraq Martin Eden Feb 2013 #47

People rationalized, yes, but there's no "re-write" in talking about the lies. DirkGently Feb 2013 #48

I remember having a fight with someone in a diner over this. Baitball Blogger Feb 2013 #49

But I knew more than one person who believed Saddam attacked us. JohnnyRingo Feb 2013 #50

Many people didn't think a president would lie so blatantly in the wake of a national tragedy Martin Eden Feb 2013 #75

I got ridiculed, and berated contantly in 91, 98, but 2003 was different tjwash Feb 2013 #51

One might ask if your proposition is correct Vinnie From Indy Feb 2013 #53

You're right. Facts were invonvenient. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #54

It's not sudden, it has been going on since even before the initial invasion. George II Feb 2013 #55

Why did the German civilians claim they didn't know what was going on before WW2? JayhawkSD Feb 2013 #61

^this^ Joe Shlabotnik Feb 2013 #97

yes this right wing hatred of evil criminals has made its way into democratic circles liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #63

BFEE Lied? Stop the presses. Oh, wait. They own the presses. Octafish Feb 2013 #66

B.S. mrchips Feb 2013 #68

K&R You are absolutely right. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #69

I think it goes back to a choice of how you think about people in general bhikkhu Feb 2013 #70

Most on DU did not support the war in Iraq abelenkpe Feb 2013 #71

You are wrong, the citizens wanted to go to Afghanistan to get Al Queda larkrake Feb 2013 #72

Exactly. Attacking Afghanistan for 9/11 was quite supported but we were tricked into Iraq uppityperson Feb 2013 #89

Um, I think you are confused lobodons Feb 2013 #74

If there's any push to "rewrite history", it's to actually get it right this time. gtar100 Feb 2013 #76

Have you forgotten Judith Miller? Celebration Feb 2013 #80

Think "tricked" and "uninformed" are NOT mutually exclusive. Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #81

That is completely wrong. dkf Feb 2013 #82

The important thing to me is that I got it right. usafvet65 Feb 2013 #83

The entry into Iraq war was stage-managed long before GW Bush took office. His ascension enabled it. Ford_Prefect Feb 2013 #84

It was a mob mentality that prevailed at that time, and politicians led the mob. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #85

Until they sanitize the Iraq war, how are they gonna sell war on Iran. OregonBlue Feb 2013 #88

Oh that thing with Iraq? That was just a misunderstanding. GoneFishin Feb 2013 #132

You are wrong. A few did support it but over all, no. And wrong, we were tricked. Afghanistan was uppityperson Feb 2013 #90

I read the Los Angeles Times and listened to the news on JDPriestly Feb 2013 #91

This push is like receiving a loving letter... Tikki Feb 2013 #96

Oh, for chrissakes! We all who were here ten years ago, know what happened. Cleita Feb 2013 #98

That whole era in US history is full of awful, disturbing behavior on the part of politicians, WCGreen Feb 2013 #109

Freedom, my left foot. Cleita Feb 2013 #111

That's what you took from that... WCGreen Feb 2013 #112

I read your whole post. Cleita Feb 2013 #113

Touche! Cleita Carolina Feb 2013 #182

"he who controls the past controls the future, and he who controls the present controls the past" Snarkoleptic Feb 2013 #106

Remember the Third Way Democrats? You know those guys who wanted war with Iraq? Catherina Feb 2013 #110

Excellent GoneFishin Feb 2013 #131

Good view but "the people" were still duped bjobotts Feb 2013 #152

Catherina, thank you for your Carolina Feb 2013 #184

What a searing indictment...."an ugly fact, that Americans, in their rage and fear, reverted to indepat Feb 2013 #114

That's the way I remember it. LWolf Feb 2013 #115

I think you really exposed your bias and revisionism here. Only Bush admin deserves blame. stevenleser Feb 2013 #116

Life is not a comic book cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #129

Exactly. So why is the OP trying to make it one and revise history? nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #155

the neocons took us to war. it didn't matter what the people wanted. spanone Feb 2013 #117

You are so wrong about this. Jack Sprat Feb 2013 #119

not exactly.. DCBob Feb 2013 #120

If you recall, the media shut off coverage of the protests. I remember when CNN abruptly stopped Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #121

Yes, they would say thousands protested when it was 80,000+ Tumbulu Feb 2013 #156

I was first on DU back then and it made me awfully upset Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #160

and so now we even have an OP claiming we drank the koolaid.... Tumbulu Feb 2013 #161

I was on DU in early 2003 and I remember nothing like that Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #162

thanks for posting this Tumbulu Feb 2013 #163

I certainly don't remember anyone in favor of it Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #171

Geez, I don't know Summer Hathaway Feb 2013 #125

I will not carry the baggage of the dumbass Americans who supported that war bluestateguy Feb 2013 #126

Americans are a bloodthirsty bunch. There's a reason drones poll high. joshcryer Feb 2013 #127

The invasion of Iraq was widely popular at first. Dash87 Feb 2013 #134

Most Americans could not tell the difference between Saddam and Osama. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #135

In response to the OP; greiner3 Feb 2013 #136

Perhaps they just want to get it out of the way before the next war. n/t hughee99 Feb 2013 #141

I don't remember any rage against Iraq and I don't remember anyone being tricked either. Ganja Ninja Feb 2013 #142

Yeh...from the comfort of their couch. RagAss Feb 2013 #166

I agree the correct information was out there, but I don�t agree that most people were aware of it. deurbano Feb 2013 #143

Respectfully Phlem Feb 2013 #144

The majority did NOT want war over diplomacy LiberalLovinLug Feb 2013 #145

Without question, the Bush Administration manipulated the public into war . . . Erda Feb 2013 #146

Many were duped.Even Colin Powell was duped...lied to, truth hidden from, unaware of the extent of judesedit Feb 2013 #147

Colin Powell was not duped Carolina Feb 2013 #185

Right, it was no trick it was flat out lies, high crimes. Rex Feb 2013 #149

I believed Colin Powell, because I thought he was the one grown-up in the room. Ian David Feb 2013 #151

Great post Sidaroo Feb 2013 #158

May 2003 A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought totodeinhere Feb 2013 #159

Public opinion John2 Feb 2013 #164

Yes, the lies told by the media to the people, were effective. But those in sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #176

I was wondering the same thing Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2013 #165

Some, yes, like all of the GOP and half of everybody else. blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #167

Sorry; I disagree. snot Feb 2013 #168

Killing of innocents! cartach Feb 2013 #169

I agree largely with what you said with 1 exception Carolina Feb 2013 #177

I agree loyalsister Feb 2013 #183

I'm afraid I disagree MadHound Nitram Feb 2013 #186

We enabled this when we failed to prosecute any for setting up the Viet Nam war. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2013 #187