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John1956PA

(4,965 posts)
75. Lindy and Dan, you raise great points and questions.
Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:20 PM
Feb 2013

As I understand it, the Vatican prefers priests to operate within the traditional church structure of bishop-governed dioceses. Existing outside of said traditional diocese structure are certain religious orders of nuns and priests who have their own governing bodies. Most of those religious orders meet with the approval of the Vatican which probably receives from each of them agreed-upon tithes.

Occasionally, there comes along a priest who is not attached to a diocese or a religious order and who begins a ministry to a segment of the populace having needs or desires which are not being filled by the diocese or by the existing religious orders. Gradually, the ministry takes on the characteristics of a religious order. The people who are ministered to by the order may be indigent, or they may have been disenfranchised by society. Sometimes, the people who are being ministered to by the order are well off and hold particular religious tenants (think Opus Dei) which are of a devotional nature.

It is my impression that, if an upstart order demonstrates that it has influence and the ability to garner financial support, the Vatican will take notice of it and try to reach an agreement with its leaders. For the order to receive the support of the Vatican, the order would have to obey church teaching.

It is my impression that, as the Legion of Christ gained popularity and financial patronage, its leaders and the Vatican reached an agreement by which the Vatican gave its approval to the order and began receiving tithes from it. At some point, the Vatican learned that the order’s founder, priest Marcial Maciel Degollado, fathered at least one child and was accused of sexual misconduct with teenage males. As mentioned above, the Vatican disciplined Degollado in 2006, and he died in 2008.

With regard to the unsealed records in the Rhode Island case, we may learn if and when the Vatican sent communications to the order addressing the misconduct allegations which had surfaced against Degollado. At this point, it is not clear if Degollado has ever been accused of sexual abuse of teenage males during any period in which the Vatican had already possessed knowledge of prior accusations against him.

As for the relevance of the foregoing to the Rhode Island case, the plaintiff (a niece of the wealthy benefactor) is trying to prove that the order concealed from the benefactor the fact that Degollado had fathered one or more children and that he had been accused of sexual abuse of teenage boys. The plaintiff believes that, if the fathering fact alone had been told to the benefactor, she would have viewed the order (which extols chastity among women) as hypocritical, and she would have directed her money to worthier beneficiaries.

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Isn't this why we have RICO laws? Scuba Feb 2013 #1
One of the reasons Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #3
HAVING laws and ENFORCING them are 2 vastly different things dixiegrrrrl Feb 2013 #14
St. Malachy said this next Pope is the last Pope AverageMe Feb 2013 #34
Now there's something to pray for.... dixiegrrrrl Feb 2013 #49
Forgive me Aerows Feb 2013 #55
So ... we can't 'bash' the church? Trajan Feb 2013 #2
I'm just trying to keep this post alive, because the details are starting to appear in the media tod lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #4
I saw this more as a post about crime and fraud PatSeg Feb 2013 #16
Much abliged, PatSeg. lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #61
Lindysalsagal, PatSeq, and hlthe2b -- Thank You for keeping on track Hekate Feb 2013 #44
Amen, Hekate. I'm proud that a fellow New Englander is doing just as you say: Getting on with it. lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #62
I for one, want to discuss factually without bringing in personal "baggage" .... hlthe2b Feb 2013 #9
OK OK .... Trajan Feb 2013 #15
Apparently Aerows Feb 2013 #24
Oh .. I get my licks in .... Trajan Feb 2013 #27
I hope they order the church to return the $60 million plus interest back to her estate. LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #5
And can you imagine if they did? Everyone else would be there with their hand out lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #7
Thank you for the informative post. Let the rule of law prevail. John1956PA Feb 2013 #6
My pleasure. lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #8
Those who assisted with the charitable transfers may have to explain their actions. John1956PA Feb 2013 #25
Thanks for the detail, John1956PA lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #63
I'm curious... Dan Feb 2013 #64
Lindy and Dan, you raise great points and questions. John1956PA Feb 2013 #75
I'm wondering if Herr Ratzinger is not just an enabler. Wolf Frankula Feb 2013 #10
Do you have the least scintilla of evidence to back your foul smear? Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #23
Where else can a pederast go to get access to kids, and have powerful friends to protect you alfredo Feb 2013 #30
Penn State rusty fender Feb 2013 #48
We had a pederast teacher in Jr high (middle school). He operated for alfredo Feb 2013 #58
I do most grovellingly apologize for doubting the bona fides Wolf Frankula Feb 2013 #50
My husban's Aunt was very devout...went to church every day...was always the highest weekly doner. Auntie Bush Feb 2013 #11
I think you're giving them too much credit. I doubt they could feel anything. lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #12
Why would it land him in jail? shrike Feb 2013 #13
And there is no extradition treaty with the Vatican FarCenter Feb 2013 #20
Exactly nt shrike Feb 2013 #22
Isn't there an American cardinal Beowulf Feb 2013 #36
That would be Cardinal Law, of the Boston diocese shrike Feb 2013 #40
Their Bank is shut down and is another scandal Ichingcarpenter Feb 2013 #17
Yeah, being your own country gets you a lot. nt LisaLynne Feb 2013 #37
The bank isn't shut down shrike Feb 2013 #41
Did it really bring down the Vatican bank? It may still be operational: freshwest Feb 2013 #45
This does not bring down popes! Coyotl Feb 2013 #18
I agree--it's not as if retirement makes it the same as "He's dead--can't ask HIM any questions!" MADem Feb 2013 #31
The documents in the Mahoney case are equally daming of Ratz and came our 2-3 weeks ago Hamlette Feb 2013 #19
So it IS all about Mee. yankeepants Feb 2013 #21
Ohhhhhhhh, baad. JimDandy Feb 2013 #51
But this church is so bash-worthy. nt Deep13 Feb 2013 #26
I wonder if the butler who leaked documents knew about this. snagglepuss Feb 2013 #28
I wouldn't doubt the pope's resignation goes back to all that. JimDandy Feb 2013 #52
Kick & R! hue Feb 2013 #29
Wholely Bejeezus Zambero Feb 2013 #32
American Catholics need to clean house, top to bottom. When done, they need to build alfredo Feb 2013 #33
There are already offshoots Tree-Hugger Feb 2013 #35
The break has to be massive. alfredo Feb 2013 #39
Oh, I totally agree nt Tree-Hugger Feb 2013 #43
In other words, become Episcopalian. Works for me. lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #59
As we say, "All the pageantry, none of the guilt." I was raised in an Episcopal family. alfredo Feb 2013 #65
Sexual repression is not so much an issue. They can marry. glinda Feb 2013 #69
So right. glinda Feb 2013 #68
Though I'm a harsh critic of the church, I know it can alfredo Feb 2013 #71
Doesn't Ratzinger's resignation put him in more hot water? nuxvomica Feb 2013 #38
only if he leaves the Vatican magical thyme Feb 2013 #47
Remember. Protestants beginning at least with Martin Luther JDPriestly Feb 2013 #42
There are plenty of "sins" amongst Protestant denominations & modern mega-churches. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #57
I wouldn't deny it, but in Protestant churches, it is easier JDPriestly Feb 2013 #66
Mega Churches just appear to be money machines for Conservatives. Nothing more. glinda Feb 2013 #70
Tartuffe. Check it out if you don't know this play by Moliere. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #46
SO glad not raised in that church elfin Feb 2013 #53
K&R Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #54
Amazing, just as this documentary was released... hwmnbn Feb 2013 #56
Wow. It appears I hit a nerve. Thanks for all the rec's, everyone! Gotta get this out there. Thanks. lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #60
More on the resignation and the holing up in the vatican arikara Feb 2013 #67
Wow, Arikara. Good find. lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #72
Annett is no longer a minister; was defrocked in the 1990s. shrike Feb 2013 #74
The ad showing up with this thread is Capt. Obvious Feb 2013 #73
Antipathy is something which Constantine's false organization has courted for 2 millenia. Dawson Leery Feb 2013 #76
The last time the Catholic Church was this corrupt, KamaAina Feb 2013 #77
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