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tishaLA

(14,753 posts)

24. Judith Butler's Excitable Speech: The Politics of the Performative is instructive re: hate speech

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 06:41 PM

Jan 2012

IMO. It's not a perfect book, but it is smart about some things, including its observation that state-sponsored prohibitions of hate speech simultaneously propagates the very speech is intends to prohibit.

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Should Free Speech include Hate Speech? [View all] BrentWil Jan 2012 OP

I don't know if there is a "best" jberryhill Jan 2012 #1

Hate crimes become hate crimes because of the addition of hate speech, right? MerryBlooms Jan 2012 #2

But that is considered a factor in the intent of the hate crime, not the speech itself. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #5

Speech can definitely be a mitigating factor. MerryBlooms Jan 2012 #30

Intent Sgent Jan 2012 #86

Yes. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #3

Only if I get to decide what is hate speech. FreeJoe Jan 2012 #4

It is a slippery slope JitterbugPerfume Jan 2012 #6

Normally the courts, as with all speech NT BrentWil Jan 2012 #17

We assassinated American citizens for their al Qaeda supporting web site. Warren Stupidity Jan 2012 #7

At set it as an extreme... BrentWil Jan 2012 #10

Pass the popcorn Hugabear Jan 2012 #8

I enjoy my threads... BrentWil Jan 2012 #12

I enjoy my threads as well. I've got this one t-shirt that's like 35 years old... HopeHoops Jan 2012 #16

I think the real cure for hate is knowledge, thus the founders had wisdom. napoleon_in_rags Jan 2012 #9

THIS ^^^^^ (well said!) Moostache Jan 2012 #13

Yes, of course. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #11

No Constitutional expert here, but it's obviously a much debated and fluid set of standards. pinto Jan 2012 #14

Unless it includes a direct threat, then yes, it should be allowed. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #15

you can be verbally assaulted- words do have power Bluerthanblue Jan 2012 #18

That's a pretty stupid and unenforcable idea... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #21

That was hurtful dems_rightnow Jan 2012 #22

Good lord... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #25

verbal abuse can result Bluerthanblue Jan 2012 #46

Because children on the receiving end of abuse internalize it. TalkingDog Jan 2012 #49

If you can really believe that becoming an "adult" Bluerthanblue Jan 2012 #53

Actually quite the opposite. My mother had bouts of paranoid schizophrenia and BPD. TalkingDog Jan 2012 #75

Oh and ... really Sigmund Freud? Really? TalkingDog Jan 2012 #77

That is absolutely untrue... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #50

some people think a picture of a naked boob on the internet is an "assault" Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #34

a picture of someones breast on the internet isn't Bluerthanblue Jan 2012 #47

Touching and spitting on are not speech, in fact can technically be considered assault Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #48

I didn't make the point I was trying to very well- Bluerthanblue Jan 2012 #58

Okay, but for one, that is not just difficult, it's basically impossible to determine. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #59

a decent definition of what Bluerthanblue Jan 2012 #60

How do you determine intent behind what someone says? Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #68

Perfect Illustration of the Slippery Slope Argument Against. Terry_M Jan 2012 #38

I'm pretty much a free speech absolutist. Xithras Jan 2012 #19

oh? provis99 Jan 2012 #39

Supreme Court has already settled this: You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre. TalkingDog Jan 2012 #52

Do you support the Citizen United Decision, then? BrentWil Jan 2012 #55

No more limitations, thanks. X_Digger Jan 2012 #20

I agree. What is your thoughts on Citizens United? BrentWil Jan 2012 #56

I'm ambivalent, to tell the truth. X_Digger Jan 2012 #61

can you yell mzteris Jan 2012 #23

The Supreme Court has pretty much nullified the 'fighting words' objection to speech Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #26

I didn't say "piss people off" mzteris Jan 2012 #29

making a direct threat isnt protected. Being a bigot is protected. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #33

Yes, you can yell fire in a crowded theater Viking12 Jan 2012 #31

Of course you can yell fire in a crowded theater. NYC Liberal Jan 2012 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author X_Digger Jan 2012 #62

Judith Butler's Excitable Speech: The Politics of the Performative is instructive re: hate speech tishaLA Jan 2012 #24

The 1st Amendment protects the speech of bigots, assholes and shitheads, too Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #27

Popular speech needs no protection- by it's very nature. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #64

IMO society has the right not to tolerate the intolerant. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #28

But SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2012 #37

Who decides what constitutes 'intolerant' RZM Jan 2012 #63

Your speech is intolerant if it terrorizes another group of people, AKA, Hate Speech. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #70

It's hard enough to come up with a definition of 'terrorism' RZM Jan 2012 #72

So anything that frightens people can be banned? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #78

Agree 100% n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2012 #82

Gee we can't determine acceptable words here - see the meta discussions Broderick Jan 2012 #32

If we were to ban "hate speech" outright, all we would succeed in doing is . . . markpkessinger Jan 2012 #35

+1 Far better to have it in the open where it can be confronted for what it is. Yup. BrendaBrick Jan 2012 #79

Very good question and I may be flamed for this... Honestly. IF you want Freedom of Speech REAL Justice wanted Jan 2012 #36

I actually think most people here agree with that assessment. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #40

Voltaire didn't say it (one of his biographers did)- but it does summarize his position nicely. X_Digger Jan 2012 #66

Thank you. I always thought he said that. Justice wanted Jan 2012 #81

Isn't that ProSense Jan 2012 #41

I like our system, but I respect the right of other nations to do differently Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #42

Putting someone in jail for their words is ludicrous. MrSlayer Jan 2012 #44

Yes. And jail time for speech alone is abhorrent. NYC Liberal Jan 2012 #45

How anyone who posts on a political bulletin board former9thward Jan 2012 #51

Someone is suggesting that? BrentWil Jan 2012 #57

You want it discussed. former9thward Jan 2012 #67

Yes... BrentWil Jan 2012 #85

I wouldn't want to empower the state to define the difference between Free Speech and Hate Speech Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #54

Yes, in my opinion, free speech should include hate speech. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #65

Yes with the exception of death threats or calling for or encouraging the death of someone NotThisTime Jan 2012 #69

YES. Iggo Jan 2012 #71

Yes it should Marrah_G Jan 2012 #73

USA! USA! USA! We are the best!!!! Major Hogwash Jan 2012 #74

"Hate speech" is primarily a euphemism for "Free speech I want to see banned". Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #76

The German laws banning Holocaust denial are ill-conceived, in my opinion. Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #80

Rick Santorum is elected President justiceischeap Jan 2012 #83

Free speech should always be protected Terra Alta Jan 2012 #84

Reluctantly, I would say yes. Jack Sprat Jan 2012 #87