General Discussion

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)

83. Absolutely right on!

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:59 AM

Feb 2013

"It wasn't that "they hate us for our freedom per se... it was and still is that they hate us for this kind of shit. This was just the largest of our endeavors that took place on our national stage. We've been manipulating the governments of many a smaller nation for a looong time."

That really says it for me. And our country has never done the honest self-reflection necessary to come to terms with this. It's framed as weakness, or terrorist sympathy, if you even try. So we continue on down this militaristic road, killing the bad guys (mostly just pissed off brown people who resent our actions), creating more and more of them along the way, and never considering how our own interventions got us into this mess.

The other point I would make is of course that we're not very free at all in this country. Plenty of countries have more freedom than we do, and no first-world nations have a higher percentage of their people in prison. Not much freedom in that.

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Chime in if you remember how the "press" in this country pushed for war [View all] senseandsensibility Feb 2013 OP

Felt like I was being gaslighted. Lars39 Feb 2013 #1

we were being gaslighted elehhhhna Feb 2013 #3

ANYTHING TO SELL PAPERS OR GET VIEWERS HowHasItComeToThis Feb 2013 #76

No. The papers sold the war. The KEY moment for GWB's invasion joeunderdog Feb 2013 #129

You're right. The anger I felt at the media was horrible. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #6

I canceled my cable, and haven't watched network news again to this day bhikkhu Feb 2013 #38

I think everyone I know came to think of me as a left wing loon, CrispyQ Feb 2013 #96

So true lark Feb 2013 #118

It was surreal MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #2

that was my sense as well.. as if a fog had descended over the land Voice for Peace Feb 2013 #32

Surreal is the perfect word. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #48

It was the military-media complex in full control, and it was scary. reformist2 Feb 2013 #126

Absolutely.. DCBob Feb 2013 #4

I lost any trust in the system nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #5

EXACTLY why even dem leaders don't do the right thing when wiggs Feb 2013 #9

Agreed (NT) The Wizard Feb 2013 #29

It wasn't that "they hate us for our freedom" 2naSalit Feb 2013 #61

Absolutely right on! dreamnightwind Feb 2013 #83

This: "our country has never done the honest self-reflection" CrispyQ Feb 2013 #98

Nice links. I have read a little Blum in the past, dreamnightwind Feb 2013 #104

NPR played its part. appal_jack Feb 2013 #7

I no longer give to NPR, period nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #11

I remember this well. I used to listen to NPR during my lunch break and that senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #17

I will never support NPR again Magleetis Feb 2013 #106

I gave up on NPR during the election of 2000 KansDem Feb 2013 #121

True, they favored the (s)election of B*sh rather unabashedly. n/t appal_jack Feb 2013 #135

What I specifically remember... Blanks Feb 2013 #8

Very good point. All the "news" companies have weapons manufacturing divisions. yardwork Feb 2013 #23

I worked for a defense contractor at the time, it was awful. xtraxritical Feb 2013 #103

My husband was in the military, so I knew it would affect us--but I wasn't certain that TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #10

They took journalism and stuffed it into a Die Hard puff piece MichiganVote Feb 2013 #12

I will never forget it... ljm2002 Feb 2013 #13

To me that were acting like f****** Pimps for the Invasion.. like Cha Feb 2013 #77

That's why I call the Washington Post the Bushington Post. forestpath Feb 2013 #14

Yes I remember the war fever OutNow Feb 2013 #15

I remember Tweety gushing over Shrub's strut on the Mission Accomplished carrier. kairos12 Feb 2013 #16

Along with Howard Fineman. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #19

I have never forgot how much samplegirl Feb 2013 #92

Even the local sports station was 24/7 pro war. Octafish Feb 2013 #18

Oh yes. And, like you, I stopped watching TV. yardwork Feb 2013 #20

I remember at an anti-Bush, anti-war protest I got interviewed by a local TV station Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #21

I was heartsick. I stood on a street corner over and over in protest. classof56 Feb 2013 #22

Fucken right I remember. I was out in the antiwar protests Jackpine Radical Feb 2013 #24

Thanks for that perspective. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #25

It was the graphic images of the war that turned the public off Jackpine Radical Feb 2013 #31

Thanks for your service. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #35

I was shot over there and clubbed over here. Jackpine Radical Feb 2013 #37

So true.... ! KoKo Feb 2013 #116

Subserviant cheer leaders The Wizard Feb 2013 #26

Collective insanity reigned Hawaiianlight Feb 2013 #27

We should have listened to Hans Blix and let him finish his job. xtraxritical Feb 2013 #105

Germany 1935 sarchasm Feb 2013 #28

you just have to go back to last election, or even current Benghazi BS being pushed by Wingnuts JI7 Feb 2013 #30

Navy Seals rawk!1! JNelson6563 Feb 2013 #33

The only one pushing back was Phil Donahue, and they fired him. n/t Ian David Feb 2013 #34

Anyone remember how horrible tweety was to Phil Donahue senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #43

This was the moment that changed Chris Matthews for the better... Ian David Feb 2013 #45

You may be right. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #46

I totally remember it BuelahWitch Feb 2013 #36

Remember it, reacted the same way. It was the beginning of the new me SaveAmerica Feb 2013 #39

And the ultimate irony is... VPStoltz Feb 2013 #40

At the time of the run-up to the Iraq invasion.... KauaiK Feb 2013 #41

anyone remember that asshole bob schiefer cheerleading the war? Hulk Smash Feb 2013 #42

I remember a Sunday morning when Schieffer rendered Rumsfeld speechless. countryjake Feb 2013 #128

They MIGHT admit a right wing asshole was wrong,... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #44

I remember my mom and me screaming at the TV meow2u3 Feb 2013 #47

Shock and Awe Chico Man Feb 2013 #49

I remember very well indeed. Chorophyll Feb 2013 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author Danmel Feb 2013 #51

but most were for the war - duped Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2013 #52

Nothing like a good little war.... Historic NY Feb 2013 #53

Aaron Brown on CNN Whisp Feb 2013 #54

I think you mean Aaron Brown. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #73

Brown, yes. ty, I edited. n/t Whisp Feb 2013 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #108

thanks, I checked that out. Great read! Whisp Feb 2013 #110

Wow. The comments about General Wesley Clark were strange. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #124

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #125

The result of the media push. hay rick Feb 2013 #55

They pushed the war and censored the protesters. The Anthrax Days! nt valerief Feb 2013 #56

They've never stopped pushing for war. harun Feb 2013 #57

I Gave Up Watching Tee Vee Altogether AndyTiedye Feb 2013 #58

Ding TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #59

Chris Matthews on W's "top gun moment Botany Feb 2013 #60

ew senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #62

Mission accomplished. hay rick Feb 2013 #66

The sad truth is 2naSalit Feb 2013 #67

that makes me want to vomit, twice. Whisp Feb 2013 #71

You can't spell coward without a W. CrispyQ Feb 2013 #99

Yes...and remember "Tweety Twist in the Wind?" and the Web Site KoKo Feb 2013 #115

Which war are you talking about? The war in Afghanistan? Pterodactyl Feb 2013 #63

I will never forget, and will never forgive. nt killbotfactory Feb 2013 #64

It was wrong and unethical nineteen50 Feb 2013 #65

Ann Curry (after the start) on the USS Lincoln leading a "USA!USA!" cheer underpants Feb 2013 #68

I remember this article Danmel Feb 2013 #69

The media hyped it well. damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #70

I will never forget. Ever. Hekate Feb 2013 #72

Judy Miller of the New York Times.. The cable channels: March to War.. Cha Feb 2013 #75

The NYT and every other newspaper buried anti-war protest articles. shcrane71 Feb 2013 #78

the NYTimes BainsBane Feb 2013 #79

I remember even our local news barely covered the largest anti-war march since catbyte Feb 2013 #80

William Rivers Pitt's piece titled: "I See Four Lights" stands out for me from that time... rosesaylavee Feb 2013 #81

Thanks for that. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #87

Thanks for this thread... rosesaylavee Feb 2013 #93

MIC News still controls the meme think Feb 2013 #82

Check colsohlibgal Feb 2013 #84

Then the presswhores gleefully asked people to call in and "tell us how you feel about torture" just1voice Feb 2013 #85

I remember vividly. susanna Feb 2013 #86

I am so sorry about your friend. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #102

Thank you, senseandsensibility. susanna Feb 2013 #136

I remember a shot of Paula Zahn, at the end of a report about the Cleita Feb 2013 #88

I lost my voice often then, screaming LIARS at the television. I sure as hell will never forget what Mnemosyne Feb 2013 #89

Donahue, Maher and Stern were pushed from poor people radios and TV. Festivito Feb 2013 #90

I remember it sakabatou Feb 2013 #91

I remember and it was disgusting and complicit ProfessionalLeftist Feb 2013 #94

Many Democrat's were complicit. xtraxritical Feb 2013 #107

I know. Most of them voted for it. ProfessionalLeftist Feb 2013 #112

Chris Matthews, 2006: The Time is Now Feb 2013 #95

What a craven jerk he was (and can still be) senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #101

Even Dr. Phil of all people. Ganja Ninja Feb 2013 #97

I remember Operation Iraqi Liberation lasted for about a day until they realized it spelled OIL. CrispyQ Feb 2013 #100

I remember comic strips pushing for war Capt. Obvious Feb 2013 #109

Still waiting for the expose and mea culpa from the NYTimes on their role in the conspiracy on point Feb 2013 #111

Yep. colorado_ufo Feb 2013 #113

I became disillusioned after the 2000 election theft deutsey Feb 2013 #114

I remember it like it was yesterday. ALL the cable news channels were on the war bandwagon Blaukraut Feb 2013 #117

It was like living in the Twilight Zone & the media lost its credibility. pacalo Feb 2013 #119

Your post really brought back memories. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #122

So much I've read on this subject in the last few days, and this is the one Mira Feb 2013 #120

I'm sorry. senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #123

Damn straight I remember. raouldukelives Feb 2013 #127

I had that feeling too. Stevepol Feb 2013 #130

The feeling of being powerless when you know you are right senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #134

Washington Post is at it again Faygo Kid Feb 2013 #131

you men the bought-out media empire. that "press"? blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #132

I remember. Rec. n/t. apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #133

I remember the press claiming Iraq had missiles capable of dumping chemical weapons Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #137