General Discussion

white_wolf

(6,257 posts)

3. I haven't replied to your poll yet and I'll explain why below:

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:25 PM

Feb 2013

In terms of the Patriot Act, drone strikes, and all of the other current issues involving security vs liberty I firmly stand on the side of liberty and oppose all of those measures and I do not propose trading liberty for security. However, I would like to point out that anyone who believes in government is willing to trade some liberty for security. After all, isn't that the whole reason for government in the first place? I'm not sure I agree full with his sentiment, but I think Lenin was at least in the right direction when he wrote "Where the State exists there can be no freedom. Where there is freedom there is no State." Perhaps Lenin went too far in that statement, but I think it is something worth considering at the very least. Can we be free while there is a state? If we can, how do we do that and if we can't then what liberties are we willing to give up to be secure?

Sorry, I know this probably wasn't the intent of your post, but I just felt like getting philosophical for a moment.

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Please Be Brave Enough To Respond To This Poll [View all] WillyT Feb 2013 OP

I voted "pass" on your poll. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #1

I agree... Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #2

The Right To Either Be Felt-Up Or Photographed Nude In Order To Travel... WillyT Feb 2013 #5

Very interesting reminder of the reality of what jaysunb Feb 2013 #23

Yep... It Was Predicted By A Guy Who Is At The Bottom Of The Ocean... WillyT Feb 2013 #28

Perhaps if you'd stated it as such in your poll... Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #41

When was the last time you saw a poll at DU that was not an embarassing push poll? grantcart Feb 2013 #13

Yes. I could do without Ed's nightly poll (nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #42

I haven't replied to your poll yet and I'll explain why below: white_wolf Feb 2013 #3

Perhaps if one views "the state" 2naSalit Feb 2013 #6

I would think so because... white_wolf Feb 2013 #11

Indeed 2naSalit Feb 2013 #14

Totally disagree Benton D Struckcheon Feb 2013 #36

We are going to firmly disagree, but that's fine. white_wolf Feb 2013 #37

For now.... Benton D Struckcheon Feb 2013 #43

I suggest Justice as Fairness: A Restatment white_wolf Feb 2013 #45

Spoons are awesome Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #4

Those who think something as abstract as liberty should trump safety... EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #7

Oh Wow... That Does It... Between You And Ben Franklin ??? WillyT Feb 2013 #10

K&R patrice Feb 2013 #26

Franklin's statement was subtle, nuanced. Your poll is not. n/t Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #8

^^^This. ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #9

Gotta Admit... It Wasn't Intended To Be... But... WillyT Feb 2013 #12

Now I'm really confused. Are you saying that Benjamin Franklin favored mass-murder? Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #21

Just Curious... How Did You Come To THAT Supposition ??? WillyT Feb 2013 #25

Your reply led me to believe that your intention in this poll has something to do with guns. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #32

No... My Poll Has To Do With Fear... WillyT Feb 2013 #33

Well we are the most unjustifiably terrified nation on earth, and consequently becoming Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #34

Word !!! WillyT Feb 2013 #35

There is much more to this complicated issue. Too much DevonRex Feb 2013 #15

Franklin had it exactly right... badtoworse Feb 2013 #16

are you a coward scaredy cat or a mature and wise person? Whisp Feb 2013 #17

Is this about GUNS? undeterred Feb 2013 #18

No... It's About Fear... WillyT Feb 2013 #20

I think your thread title is manipulative crap & I think your poll is too abstract to mean anything. patrice Feb 2013 #19

You Seem... Upset... WillyT Feb 2013 #22

"deserve" patrice Feb 2013 #27

It's A Statement Of Philosophy From One Of The Guys That Put THIER Lives On The Line For Us All... WillyT Feb 2013 #29

I believe I mentioned it's relevance within it's own context a DIFFERENT time & set of circumstances patrice Feb 2013 #31

"It is absurd, the pretending to be lovers of liberty while they grudge paying for msanthrope Feb 2013 #24

In general I disagree with this libertarian claptrap. Howevr I do think that one geckosfeet Feb 2013 #30

I agree with Franklin's statement. It was a big hit on DU in 2002 Skip Intro Feb 2013 #38

Way too vague to vote anything but "other" ..."Guns, Drones, FEAR"? Rowdyboy Feb 2013 #39

We as a society can be "afraid" of lots of things, from pot to plutonium. Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #40

Last Chance... WillyT Feb 2013 #44

He was - and is - right, within reason. reformist2 Feb 2013 #46

Poll doesn't match the quote. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #47

A Majority Disagrees... WillyT Feb 2013 #48

No, quite literally the language in the poll choices does not match geek tragedy Feb 2013 #49

Ah... The Parsing Of Future Generations... Of The Founding Language... WillyT Feb 2013 #50

I would vote to agree with Franklin while also agreeing that part of living in a civilized geek tragedy Feb 2013 #51

wow. patrice Feb 2013 #52

Real liberty? Or fake liberty mwrguy Feb 2013 #53