General Discussion

adieu

(1,009 posts)

40. You're over-reading the graph

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:56 PM

Feb 2013

The graph should just tell you that there is a positive correlation between percent of ownership versus gun deaths (by whatever means they occur, presumably by ejecting a bullet through the nozzle, and not by being beaten by the butt of a rifle, say).

This graph is to refute the claim that pro-gun owners make, averring that owning a gun makes the person safer. Well, no, it does not, at least not by gun deaths. In fact, the graph suggests that the more guns out there in a state, the more likely someone out there in that state (and we're assuming gun deaths due to shootings across state lines are rare) will die by a gun.

The pro-gun claim would have shown the negative correlation, or the slope of the average going downwards from left to right.

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Gun ownership vs. gun deaths, by state [View all] michigandem58 Feb 2013 OP

Correlation will be ignored and refuted with anecdotal excuses and stories. Sheepshank Feb 2013 #1

I can't figure out where Washington state falls, appears to be missing its dot. freshwest Feb 2013 #2

It's there. enlightenment Feb 2013 #29

I hate those kind of graphs. Percentages not that great for WA, although freshwest Feb 2013 #31

over what period of time? cali Feb 2013 #3

Are those rates increasing or decreasing? nt hack89 Feb 2013 #4

Include suicides? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #5

Are people who commit suicide any less dead? Major Nikon Feb 2013 #7

Suicides are not generally a danger to other people. FarCenter Feb 2013 #8

Let's hope you never get depressed when there's a gun handy. nt valerief Feb 2013 #11

Suicides inflict great damage on individuals and society No Vested Interest Feb 2013 #14

With youth- one suicide is sometimes followed by others loyalsister Feb 2013 #36

You Think, Sir, There Are No Consequences To Others Owing To Suicide? The Magistrate Feb 2013 #15

Suicides do not increase one's risk of having death or injury inflicted on them by someone else FarCenter Feb 2013 #25

That Is a Very Narrow View Of Risk, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2013 #30

A failure to properly categorize and evaluate risks leads to bad policy FarCenter Feb 2013 #37

Suicide Is A Major Risk Of Gun Ownership, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2013 #41

they still count as gun deaths treestar Feb 2013 #18

yea, fuck YOUR family & end it................ kooljerk666 Feb 2013 #21

This post was alerted on. By a vote of 3/3 it is allowed to stand. ohiosmith Feb 2013 #54

suicides Crepuscular Feb 2013 #56

I'm not sure what purposes that would serve other than obfuscation Major Nikon Feb 2013 #59

Guns kill better than pills Loudestlib Feb 2013 #17

that is irrelevant - as you are only counting gun related deaths in the first place. But srican69 Feb 2013 #22

removing suicide data will not invalidate the correlation ... let me explain srican69 Feb 2013 #20

I don't think a constant 70% ratio is correct FarCenter Feb 2013 #32

I do not. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #33

Wyoming and Montana are not hotbeds of anything. EOTE Feb 2013 #35

Distance to medical help Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #45

Ahh, so the states with loads of guns ONLY have higher rates of gun deaths... EOTE Feb 2013 #46

No, was referencing those two states only Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #48

Again, there are plenty of high gun violence states EOTE Feb 2013 #58

So, now Wyoming and Montana has morphed into Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #61

So suicides don't count? Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #49

OK, upon further research, the MJ chart isn't really useful cali Feb 2013 #6

In 2010 there were 7 murders in Vermont. Only 2 of those murders were committed with guns. cali Feb 2013 #9

Good attempt at obfuscation. baldguy Feb 2013 #26

that doesn't even make any sense, sweetie. cali Feb 2013 #42

I'm sure those folks who died accidentally from guns have so much relief that they weren't murdered. EOTE Feb 2013 #47

That's one datapoint. DanTex Feb 2013 #55

So relatively speaking, Minnesota has responsible gun users treestar Feb 2013 #10

30% ownership in Nevada seems like a helluva lot of gun owners to me! valerief Feb 2013 #12

I was thinking more along the lines of correlation treestar Feb 2013 #16

This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Feb 2013 #27

Thanks. I'm using Friday brains today. valerief Feb 2013 #53

You're not doing the math right. adieu Feb 2013 #38

can you provide a link to the article? DeadEyeDyck Feb 2013 #13

more gun ownership means more gun deaths right? samsingh Feb 2013 #19

The standard deviation seems to be wider than the underlying regression Recursion Feb 2013 #23

You're over-reading the graph adieu Feb 2013 #40

Most all the the red states are above the trend line Flagrante Feb 2013 #24

That's a hell of an interesting observation michigandem58 Feb 2013 #51

The right hand side of the chart is a powerful argument for mental health reform hack89 Feb 2013 #28

Murder rated have been declining, while suicide rates have been increasing FarCenter Feb 2013 #39

Exactly Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #50

gun ownership melm00se Feb 2013 #34

Thank you for posting this! It shows clearly the correlation of gun deaths and gun ownership. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #43

Be interesting to see each state by city/county. Fla_Democrat Feb 2013 #44

Indeed markgee Feb 2013 #52

Message auto-removed year of the cat Feb 2013 #57

Seems to be a distinct correlation between gun deaths per capital and red states, but indepat Feb 2013 #60