General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

71. And that is easier said than done in terms of identifying what is an enemy target at that range.

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 06:47 PM

Feb 2013

Right now, a lot of that ID is done via folks who work on specialized AWAC-type aircraft that are outfitted with a massive and very expensive array of instrumentation and they communicate via electronic and regular voice communications with pilots of fighter and bomber aircraft to help them identify what is and is not an enemy/target/etc. Again, it is an electronic warfare environment, so relying on one plane dozens if not hundreds of miles away being able to get an encrypted electronic signal to an artificially intelligent drone to aid it in target selection is an iffy proposition.

I'm not saying it is impossible. One day this will be very probable. But I am not seeing evidence that AI has advanced nearly far enough to make autonomous fighter aircraft.

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So, what should replace the F-35? [View all] bobclark86 Feb 2013 OP

How about the F15 for interception and the F16 for air-to-air? DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #1

The Navy carrier fleet could get by with F-18s for a few more decades...eom Kolesar Feb 2013 #3

My mom was at NAS Pensacola in '74... bobclark86 Feb 2013 #13

We have C-130's going overhead on a regular basis. They still work just fine. Gorp Feb 2013 #42

Probably woudn't fare well against Chinese and Russian stealth jets. OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #77

We won't be having dogfights with the Chinese or Russians DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #78

Conservatives claim that leaving the money with the public creates more growth and jobs Kolesar Feb 2013 #2

Ooh! bobclark86 Feb 2013 #15

We lacked translators, not armaments, to stop the 9/11 terror attack Kolesar Feb 2013 #32

Drones are replacing manned aircraft pretty rapidly FarCenter Feb 2013 #4

Nothing. The JSF is not the problem, it is a symptom. Few people can really grasp just how Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #5

Try again, the Russians are kicking our asses sir pball Feb 2013 #11

I'd agree accept that the F-22 and F-35 are both over-priced pieces of shit. Gorp Feb 2013 #44

From the get-go maybe sir pball Feb 2013 #64

Buying overpriced hardware built by incompetent numbnuts won't help fix that problem. bemildred Feb 2013 #51

If you can get out of the absurd mindset that has been fostered, you would also consider Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #52

I never said anything about Russian aggression. sir pball Feb 2013 #65

I get the corporate welfare bit... bobclark86 Feb 2013 #16

That's where changing our minds comes in. We are stuck in a cycle of Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #53

The next gen of air superiority and ground attack will be remotely piloted vehicles. leveymg Feb 2013 #6

+1 Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #7

The F-35 is obsolete, inferior, unsurvivable junk. Stop throwing money at it. leveymg Feb 2013 #9

Publicly funded, universal health care. n/t ronnie624 Feb 2013 #8

The F-35 is likely to be America's last manned fighter. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #10

Yes and no sir pball Feb 2013 #38

Actually, human lag time is worse. Pilots take longer than automonous drones in decision-making Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #56

No drone can remotely handle the Su-30 and Mig-29 derivatives FogerRox Feb 2013 #39

How would the Su-30 and Mig-29 do against the Patriot missile -- which is an autonomous drone? FarCenter Feb 2013 #61

The patriot is not a drone. A drone is a weapons platform, not a weapon. A patriot is a weapon. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #74

A drone is any unmanned vehicle under its own guidance and optionally remote guidance FarCenter Feb 2013 #76

A drone could have advantages. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #79

I disagree. Even with the rapid communication links we have now, a pilot is quicker. Gorp Feb 2013 #46

The drones will rapidly become autonomous -- there is no need for a pilot on the ground FarCenter Feb 2013 #55

That's true, but autonomous drones have no sense of ethics. Gorp Feb 2013 #57

It'd have whatever ethical precepts are programmed into it. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #80

That's the point. A pilot knows when firing is ethically wrong. Gorp Feb 2013 #81

I dont know how rapidly we will be able to build the following AI into a drone... stevenleser Feb 2013 #58

The problems are soluble or irrelevant FarCenter Feb 2013 #60

You gloss right over the complexities...starting with IFF. stevenleser Feb 2013 #66

To intercept airliners and general aviation aircraft doesn't require an F-35 FarCenter Feb 2013 #69

And that is easier said than done in terms of identifying what is an enemy target at that range. stevenleser Feb 2013 #71

Yeeeah, you're oversimplifying the hell out of things Posteritatis Feb 2013 #72

That's a good point. Even in chess there are a limited amount of possible moves. stevenleser Feb 2013 #73

And that's before the subjectives like rules of engagement and other shades of gray Posteritatis Feb 2013 #75

SkyNet is self-aware jpak Feb 2013 #68

Yeah, that is another reason not to implement artificially intelligent killing machines... stevenleser Feb 2013 #70

If we have to keep it within the defense/MIC spending, kentauros Feb 2013 #12

Doesn't have to stay Pentagon... bobclark86 Feb 2013 #14

Okay, and I like your idea of a "CIC" kentauros Feb 2013 #17

Your solar-antenna would work at night in my quite-cloudy town Kolesar Feb 2013 #21

One thing that I sincerely hope would be done, kentauros Feb 2013 #23

Reforestation would sequester the CO2 as would algae growth from dumping iron powder into the sea Kolesar Feb 2013 #25

I have read about the use of iron powder, and am still iffy on doing that. kentauros Feb 2013 #28

Except for the VTOL version the rest should be dropped The Second Stone Feb 2013 #18

The VTOL version is a big part of the programs troubles FarCenter Feb 2013 #19

then just drop them all The Second Stone Feb 2013 #22

Yes, it is probably too late and too costly to salvage the Air Force and Navy versions FarCenter Feb 2013 #24

Simple. 99Forever Feb 2013 #20

Peace, and paintable weatherproofing caulk! Kolesar Feb 2013 #26

I'm not exactly sure how to take your response. 99Forever Feb 2013 #31

F-22 midwest irish Feb 2013 #27

We're *still building* LCACs, and you expect the F-35 to be scrapped? Recursion Feb 2013 #29

Simple solution: fuck war. Earth_First Feb 2013 #30

Not another Jet n2doc Feb 2013 #33

Well said, but with one minor correction. For the cost of the F-35, it would be WAY more than 140K. Gorp Feb 2013 #47

As an act of patriotism I'll offer my '93 Toyota pickup and put on fresh duct tape. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #34

Butter. n/t Orsino Feb 2013 #35

here's a diagram bigtree Feb 2013 #36

The G-36 of course. nt guardian Feb 2013 #37

schools and teachers rurallib Feb 2013 #40

More F-15s. They're proven, highly effective, reliable, and relatively inexpensive. Gorp Feb 2013 #41

The Viper MK II of course Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #43

"Use the Force, Luke." Gorp Feb 2013 #48

A School Lunch Program eom Taverner Feb 2013 #45

The YF-23 should have been built and then modified to meet the joint criteria. Tikki Feb 2013 #49

Nothing. nt bemildred Feb 2013 #50

not surprising... janlyn Feb 2013 #54

They should conduct a War Game between the F-35 and the Patriot missile FarCenter Feb 2013 #59

I don't see why we don't start the space program again instead of letting private enterprises do it? Cleita Feb 2013 #62

Republicans. We should threaten to offload them onto other countries. winter is coming Feb 2013 #63

I'll make the Pentagon an offer they can't refuse ... lpbk2713 Feb 2013 #67