General Discussion

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)

24. The Constitution

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 10:58 PM

Feb 2021

Article I, Section 9, Clause 3 and the 14th Amendment Due Process Clause, among other things.

Congress can't just on its own declare someone guilty of a crime and take away their rights without a trial.

Do you really think that Congress has the right to, with a simple majority vote, declare a person guilty of insurrection and bar them from holding federal office? Do you think that the Republican Congress could have done that to Bill Clinton in 1998 after they failed to remove him through impeachment? Or would you have been ok with the Republican Congress declaring Obama guilty of insurrection in 2015 and removing him from office? Or voting in 2015 that Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders were insurrectionists and barring them from running for president?

Congress does not have such power and no court would allow them to try to exercise it.

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Confused: are we sure the 14th amendment is off the table? [View all] soothsayer Feb 2021 OP

Yeppers, this is essentially what we wanted done with this failed conviction msfiddlestix Feb 2021 #1

Ok but it says: soothsayer Feb 2021 #5

This can't be done this way StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #12

Rightio soothsayer Feb 2021 #16

Do We Know Why The Dems Didn't Use The 14th Amendment Route The First Time? Indykatie Feb 2021 #2

Because the 14th Amendment is not something Congress can invoke by itself StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #11

Neil Kayal explains: hlthe2b Feb 2021 #3

I get the feeling nothing is off the table. Even people in Congress who could be OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2021 #4

It needs a conviction in a court. servermsh Feb 2021 #6

Thank you StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #8

Agreed. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #14

You probably have a source already, but... TwilightZone Feb 2021 #21

This will work ONLY if a court rules that Trump is guilty of insurrection StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #7

Ah. That makes sense. soothsayer Feb 2021 #9

Forgive my ignorance on this subject, MontanaMama Feb 2021 #13

I can think of a couple of possibilities StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #15

Got it. MontanaMama Feb 2021 #18

This is what I was trying to ask. Thanks for the explanation. Vivienne235729 Feb 2021 #46

Where are you getting the notion that there must be a conviction? Nevilledog Feb 2021 #19

So a Republican-controlled Congress could have banned Obama from running for a second term NYC Liberal Feb 2021 #20

Read the article....it goes into more detail. Nevilledog Feb 2021 #22

You think Republicans need facts? lol, no TwilightZone Feb 2021 #23

Impeachment was a determination. Nevilledog Feb 2021 #32

The courts would defer to Congress' conclusion, but would still make the decision StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #39

The Constitution StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #24

From the law fare article TwilightZone referenced Nevilledog Feb 2021 #33

Also from the same LawFare article you cited StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #34

That's talking about no impeachment proceedings. They can't just decide to use it by itself. Nevilledog Feb 2021 #36

Did you read the whole article? StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #37

From what I've seen, Schumer did not say he was seriously considering it. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #10

Gotcha soothsayer Feb 2021 #26

Kind of odd, actually. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #28

Certainly won't gripe if that works out, but I really think it's up to voters Hoyt Feb 2021 #17

They "beat him" in 2016 as well... regnaD kciN Feb 2021 #29

OK, guess we are going to refuse to accept election results too. Hoyt Feb 2021 #31

Until/unless Trump is convicted of criminal charges of Insurrection, 14th is likely off the table. Fiendish Thingy Feb 2021 #25

that is my understanding as well, and I doubt he will be criminally charged Celerity Feb 2021 #30

He doesn't have to be criminally charged, but there does have to be a judicial StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Feb 2021 #42

Oki, poor wording upon my part. Celerity Feb 2021 #43

Of course it is Bettie Feb 2021 #27

It's not off limits. But it can't be done without judicial determination of guilt StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #35

He's worked the judicial system his entire life Bettie Feb 2021 #38

How was this applied to the original Confederates after the Civil War? NotASurfer Feb 2021 #41

At the time, everyone who served in the Confederacy was deemed by law to be an insurrectionist StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #44

I think if there was a will to use the 14th they would be all over it. All I hear Hotler Feb 2021 #45