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In reply to the discussion: Junior high teacher tells kid to remove Marines t-shirt or get suspended (has guns on it) [View all]ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)136. Take a look from a different perspective
You yourself have said on this thread that the dress code is vague, ambiguous (probably by design), and a gray area. And yet you want to blame the teacher involved for having a different interpretation of what constitutes violent imagery than the superintendent.
The teacher took an unnecessarily aggressive steps when they were better ones available.
You want the teacher to be called into the principal's office and "counseled."
You and I both know that has already happened. Hopefully he had the good sense to admit his mistakes
You want the school to keep its eye on the teacher to make sure he doesn't try to retaliate.
Having seen that happen to my own kids, I think it needs to be watched for, to what level depends on the teacher.
You say the teacher "failed the Washington Post test" as though he brought shame upon himself.
He failed the WP test by his own actions. You are bringing in concept of shame. I could see that he is at least embarrassed by it.
All this for asking a kid to turn his shirt inside out during a busy school day.
He made a bad call, reasons unknown. While there is not a lot of data, it seems reasonable that the teacher had actually seen that child in that same shirt previously and did nothing.
You say, oh the media is running with this because it's a slow news day - as though you yourself aren't making hay about this and using it to promote your own agenda.
My take is that the teacher made a mistake and things grew from there. Its a teachable moment for both sides. What is my agenda beyond that?
And I highly doubt the teacher started off threatening suspension. More likely the kid was mouthing off and being insubordinate (something he should learn not to be if he's so enamored of the military) and the teacher had to resort to an ultimatum.
Presumptively he was protesting that he had worn that shirt before without issues. That is not mouthing off nor insubordination. Ultimatums are about the poorest way to control and manage people of any age. Had that not been issued, this never would have bubbled up. Note that the military does not want automatons. They need and expect their people to think. We should want the same from our children.
Students are supposed to obey their teachers in school. There may be exceptional scenarios where disobedience is warranted but I don't think this was one of them.
IIRC the child did. He then took it to his parents who took it from there, which is also the correct course of action.
This has nothing to do with anti-gun hysteria, anti-military sentiment, zero tolerance policies in schools, teacher abuses of students, freedom of expression through attire, or any other agenda people are trying to push. This was one teacher at one school in the entire nation making a reasonable judgement call during a busy school day.
The judgement call and methods were clearly questionable.
And since you like to use the phrase "delicate flowers" to describe people you disagree with, I would argue that the delicate flowers in this case were the ones who ran to the media to bawl about having to turn a shirt inside out without even trying to discuss it with anyone at the school.
The delicate flowers is a slur used against those who support gun rights based on a Tom Tomorrow cartoon. Some of us turn it around when appropriate. I assume you are unaware of that. Considering some of the other posters in this thread, it was a fair use.
Again you come back to keeping it within the building. It is not a requirement nor a reasonable expectation at this point, Teachers and administrators know this and they need to act accordingly. The unrelated case I cited is a clear example of why.
The teacher took an unnecessarily aggressive steps when they were better ones available.
You want the teacher to be called into the principal's office and "counseled."
You and I both know that has already happened. Hopefully he had the good sense to admit his mistakes
You want the school to keep its eye on the teacher to make sure he doesn't try to retaliate.
Having seen that happen to my own kids, I think it needs to be watched for, to what level depends on the teacher.
You say the teacher "failed the Washington Post test" as though he brought shame upon himself.
He failed the WP test by his own actions. You are bringing in concept of shame. I could see that he is at least embarrassed by it.
All this for asking a kid to turn his shirt inside out during a busy school day.
He made a bad call, reasons unknown. While there is not a lot of data, it seems reasonable that the teacher had actually seen that child in that same shirt previously and did nothing.
You say, oh the media is running with this because it's a slow news day - as though you yourself aren't making hay about this and using it to promote your own agenda.
My take is that the teacher made a mistake and things grew from there. Its a teachable moment for both sides. What is my agenda beyond that?
And I highly doubt the teacher started off threatening suspension. More likely the kid was mouthing off and being insubordinate (something he should learn not to be if he's so enamored of the military) and the teacher had to resort to an ultimatum.
Presumptively he was protesting that he had worn that shirt before without issues. That is not mouthing off nor insubordination. Ultimatums are about the poorest way to control and manage people of any age. Had that not been issued, this never would have bubbled up. Note that the military does not want automatons. They need and expect their people to think. We should want the same from our children.
Students are supposed to obey their teachers in school. There may be exceptional scenarios where disobedience is warranted but I don't think this was one of them.
IIRC the child did. He then took it to his parents who took it from there, which is also the correct course of action.
This has nothing to do with anti-gun hysteria, anti-military sentiment, zero tolerance policies in schools, teacher abuses of students, freedom of expression through attire, or any other agenda people are trying to push. This was one teacher at one school in the entire nation making a reasonable judgement call during a busy school day.
The judgement call and methods were clearly questionable.
And since you like to use the phrase "delicate flowers" to describe people you disagree with, I would argue that the delicate flowers in this case were the ones who ran to the media to bawl about having to turn a shirt inside out without even trying to discuss it with anyone at the school.
The delicate flowers is a slur used against those who support gun rights based on a Tom Tomorrow cartoon. Some of us turn it around when appropriate. I assume you are unaware of that. Considering some of the other posters in this thread, it was a fair use.
Again you come back to keeping it within the building. It is not a requirement nor a reasonable expectation at this point, Teachers and administrators know this and they need to act accordingly. The unrelated case I cited is a clear example of why.
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Junior high teacher tells kid to remove Marines t-shirt or get suspended (has guns on it) [View all]
The Straight Story
Feb 2013
OP
I thought it was offensive to call someone "nuts" or "crazy", some hypocrisy here?
snooper2
Feb 2013
#105
Indeed that was the case...the media was in the midst of a meltdown and we did not have a clue
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#76
Indeed it was. There is enough discrimination against the mentally ill in the county
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#80
I would definitely vote as a Juror to "Leave it" if someone alerted on his post.
madinmaryland
Mar 2013
#193
Ha! You ever visit the I/P dungeon? I'd guess 50% of the comments are related to sources.
Purveyor
Mar 2013
#151
but, but...fox news and other places had it to, so it can't be real and us talk about it
The Straight Story
Mar 2013
#177
This appears to be the act of an over-zealous (or over-cautious) teacher
Jeff In Milwaukee
Feb 2013
#9
If you'd every met the guidance counselor, you'd be howling with laughter...
Jeff In Milwaukee
Feb 2013
#71
I know. They dress it up in high-sounding 'security' and 'educational' functions.
randome
Feb 2013
#21
I'd guess unless your military job is in communications, transportation, medicine, logistics,
hughee99
Feb 2013
#35
Every Marine, regardless of specialty, is first and foremost a rifleman
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#38
Yes, and yet depending on their job, they can spend a vast majority of their time
hughee99
Feb 2013
#50
Its a more modern version of the cross-rifle insignia sported by US Army Infantry
Victor_c3
Feb 2013
#64
Wow. You want to send a teacher to counseling for asking a kid to turn his shirt inside out?
Nine
Feb 2013
#68
I said counsel...which means you sit down with the employee and discuss what happened
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#73
Careful or there will be a counter reaction by the students and maybe the staff
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#46
Good. We ne to do all we can to counteract the pro gun/ pro military mindset n this country.
bowens43
Feb 2013
#29
I take that to mean that this was the first time any of the staff did anything about it
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#89
Isn't that what kids do? Dealing with it is a big part of what teachers do
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#41
The Washington Post test is actually media independent and this is now on multiple media sources
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#65
My kid was threatened with suspension and it wasn't even a rule violation
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#103
If everyone wore shirts with pictures of guns on them, nobody would be scared of shirts
slackmaster
Feb 2013
#100
Have that law handy? I'd expect such a law to be struck down pretty damned fast on 1st am grounds.nt
X_Digger
Feb 2013
#119
I assume he means students at school where the BOR is strongly curtailed.
ProgressiveProfessor
Feb 2013
#122
The Supreme Court refused to hear a case challenging school dress code in 2010.
proud2BlibKansan
Feb 2013
#124
Adults who are employees would be covered under the district dress code.
proud2BlibKansan
Feb 2013
#125
Call it what you want, but its a form of speech that has greater protection than sexually explicit
onenote
Mar 2013
#154
If you didn't think a court would ever give corporations constitutional rights
onenote
Mar 2013
#165
Okay, then please clear up the issue: do you think corporations should have first amendment rights
onenote
Mar 2013
#168
Minors are not generally legally allowed to own sexually explicit materials in the US.
ZombieHorde
Mar 2013
#176
I think you are unable to back up your claims, so you use insults instead.
ZombieHorde
Mar 2013
#190
Might have been handled better. But truth is we don't need to be promoting guns in schools.
Hoyt
Mar 2013
#152
I see it more as an anti-public school/anti-public school teacher/anti-teacher union thing
ProgressiveProfessor
Mar 2013
#162