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sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
57. First of all, this whole 'war' was based on lies.
Fri Mar 1, 2013, 02:44 PM
Mar 2013

One of those lies was that we were there to 'shut down' Saddam Hussein's torture chambers. We all know now how that turned out. We now have people in this country contradicting themselves when they were lying to get support for this illegal, immoral invasion, by attempting to JUSTIFY torture.

What he reported was the torture of Iraqi citizens, who also, foolishly, believed the US when they were told that we were 'bringing them democracy'. They actually believed that it would be okay in this new 'democracy' we claim to have created, to exercise their right to free speech. They thought they had the right to protest, PEACEFULLY, with signs, some of the actions of this new, 'democratic' government they were told was there to represent them.

They were wrong. They were arrested for holding signs and tortured for daring to protest the replacement of Saddam Hussein. Like Manning, they were duped, nothing much had changed after all.

Since Manning witnessed these war crimes, committed by our newly created 'democratic' allies, he reported them. He was ignored. Imo, he should not have been surprised since we've all learned that torture is now acceptable in our own democracy.

I have read his thoughts on his own transformation from total support for the invasion to being unable as a human being, to witness these crimes and remain silent about them.

What you are saying is that the US has zero obligation to the Iraqi people whose country they invaded and destroyed. Not even to protest to the government they set up about the continuation of the torture of Iraqis by SH when they dared to peacefully protest.

Iow, you are condoning 'looking the other way' rather than taking a stand. Then why didn't we do that in the first place? Why didn't we just stay out of their business since we have done not one thing to improve the lives of these people which the whole world knows?? It is wrong, it is immoral, it is not honorable, it is unethical. What Manning did is what every decent human being should do when they see a crime taking place. And even more so, he was obligated by his own oath to report such crimes.

He knew will what the consequences would be when he finally decided to take the only action he felt he could take to try to stop these crimes from continuing. So it's not a case of him looking forward to any 'cushy' life. He knew he faced jail, maybe worse, but like so many before him who had the courage to try to stop wrong-doing, he was willing to take those consequences. That is what makes him a hero.

As for any harm done, I will take Gates' assessment of the harm. He has stated that no harm was done as you claim, other than embarrassment. And even less harm would have been done if his superiors had taken war crimes seriously and shown the world they will not tolerate such crimes, whether it is Saddam Hussein or the puppet government they set up doing it.

In the end the world now knows that the US never cared about SH's torture chambers, they certainly knew about them when they were supporting him for decades.

We have been exposed, not by Manning, but our own actions, as hypocrites and liars, and THAT is what has harmed the US.

As the protesters in Tunisia and Libya and Egypt said when they were trying to overturn their own dictatorships 'we do not want American style democracy here, as they created in Iraq'. If you think that the actions of our leaders has not harmed this country all over the world, and that Manning is the problem, then all I can say is you haven't been paying attention.

Manning too wanted to get back home safely. But he could not turn away from the crimes against humanity he witnessed. Too bad there are not more like him.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Bradley Manning: the face of heroism [View all] Luminous Animal Feb 2013 OP
Some of Manning's testimony... Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #1
Now three years in custody ... Scuba Feb 2013 #2
+1. pacalo Feb 2013 #4
+2 Useless in FL Feb 2013 #6
Telling the truth in the US is a very dangerous thing to do. sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #13
+10000000000 woo me with science Mar 2013 #17
I wish our potus tblue Mar 2013 #39
"Americans love non-conformity and often reward it with the metal of honor (sic).” Lenny Bruce deutsey Mar 2013 #46
this is not America's finest hour but its worst lovuian Feb 2013 #3
petraeus and allen two generals leaked info lovuian Feb 2013 #5
Exactly...but like the Black Panther Kept in Solitary for 40 Years... KoKo Feb 2013 #7
Obama should pardon him. mwrguy Feb 2013 #8
Yes, he should, but I'm waiting for the lightening to strike I'm afraid. n/t Cleita Feb 2013 #9
Be realistic... Whats_that Mar 2013 #44
Be realistic. Cleita Mar 2013 #58
Hardly... Whats_that Mar 2013 #60
A deterrent to keep others from exposing the war crimes that Cleita Mar 2013 #63
So many weak points. randome Feb 2013 #10
I suspect the defense will ask for another delay of trial after this round of hearings. msanthrope Feb 2013 #11
Huh? Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #12
You're wasting your time, I hate to tell you. sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #14
I was thrilled to see that he didn't "turn" on Wikileaks... he stuck with his ideals... Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #19
Um...I think Mr. Manning has figured out that he was used by Mr. Assange-- msanthrope Mar 2013 #22
As you have been told time and time again, the organization that manages Wikileaks' funds Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #28
The excuses for Assange are endless. Your second paragraph is a rather revealing analogy. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #31
Yes, that was a huge concern, and I'm sure part of the reason why he was sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #50
Let me know when Assange gets around to releasing the bank info.... msanthrope Mar 2013 #20
And as you have been told time and time and again Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #29
No one made a backup? nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #34
Great plot for a novel. nt. MH1 Mar 2013 #55
Let us know when any charges are filed, okay? Three years, no charges, political sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #42
I suspect charges will be filed as the Belmarsh court indicated they would: msanthrope Mar 2013 #68
I suspect no charges will ever be filed nor were they ever intending to file them. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #72
From your link. randome Mar 2013 #18
Um, that is from a live blogger who has asked to wait for her final report... Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #21
Both papers have denied having contact with Manning. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #23
"Hilary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack struggle4progress Feb 2013 #15
It is an accurate observation and has nothing to do with motive. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #16
Actually, it has quite a bit to do with intent. Motive is great, but not a requirement. What that msanthrope Mar 2013 #24
Honestly, I'd like to keep this going and I have things to say... Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #32
I am very sorry. We can argue later, right now know that your cat died msanthrope Mar 2013 #35
Oh, no... woo me with science Mar 2013 #36
Oh no. Clearly your cat had a lovely long life, but it is so hard cali Mar 2013 #40
I'm so sorry, Luminous Animal sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #43
Damn. I'm sorry to hear that deutsey Mar 2013 #48
Aw Damn... Sorry Luminous... WillyT Mar 2013 #67
I might indeed have been persuadable of that claim, had there been a small identifiable cluster struggle4progress Mar 2013 #25
Manning admitted today that he didn't seek official channels--i.e. whistleblower status-- msanthrope Mar 2013 #26
Dumb kid. struggle4progress Mar 2013 #27
He reported abuses to his superiors and was ignored. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #51
he made the Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #41
Why are you a Manning detractor? Coyotl Mar 2013 #73
This... Whats_that Mar 2013 #45
And you need to read some of the facts of this case. He reported torture something sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #49
The SOFA 4Q2u2 Mar 2013 #54
Well said. MH1 Mar 2013 #56
Well said if you support torture and war crimes going unpunished. Very sad to see sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #59
First of all, this whole 'war' was based on lies. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #57
His only Transformation 4Q2u2 Mar 2013 #66
Well said... Whats_that Mar 2013 #70
The torture memos were part of the Gitmo dump which WAS NOT MANNING Recursion Mar 2013 #64
P.J. Crowley moondust Mar 2013 #30
Crowley was looking for an excuse to resign, having already applied for the Omar Bradley chair, struggle4progress Mar 2013 #38
None of that has anything to do what he said, which was correct. Torturing a sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #47
"... I was asked .. why the United States government was "torturing" Private First Class Bradley struggle4progress Mar 2013 #61
The whistle blower goes to trial and the people whose crimes he exposed goes free. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #33
This is where the ploblem lies Peregrine Mar 2013 #53
Yup. woo me with science Mar 2013 #65
This man has been through some serious shit upi402 Mar 2013 #37
REC!!!!! Jumpin Jack Fletch Mar 2013 #52
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2013 #62
Yes... along with Aldrich Ames and the Walkers whistler162 Mar 2013 #69
K&R woo me with science Mar 2013 #71
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