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In reply to the discussion: We need a new Democratic Party [View all]bhikkhu
(10,789 posts)64. Here's the background on the source for that graphic:
http://ctj.org/about/background.php
"Citizens for Tax Justice, founded in 1979, is a 501 (c)(4) public interest research and advocacy organization focusing on federal, state and local tax policies and their impact upon our nation. CTJ's mission is to give ordinary people a greater voice in the development of tax laws. Against the armies of special interest lobbyists for corporations and the wealthy, CTJ fights for:
Fair taxes for middle and low-income families
Requiring the wealthy to pay their fair share
Closing corporate tax loopholes
Adequately funding important government services
Reducing the federal debt
Taxation that minimizes distortion of economic markets"
and so forth. I know the first reaction to discrepant information is to attack the source, rather than research the source, and to dismiss the information, rather than fact-check it or make sure you understand it.
"Total taxes" is the key term. The right tends to look only at federal taxes when they form their talking points, as the federal tax rates are the most progressive and show the poor paying nothing and the wealthiest paying ridiculous amounts in comparison. This is a distortion.
"Total taxes" includes sales tax, which consumes a disproportionate amount of poorer individual's income, as do the fuel and energy taxes, and vehicle registration fees and so forth. When you look at the proportions of a person's income paid in total taxes, those who pay no federal income tax still pay about 20% of their income in taxes.
When you get to the middle classes you add more federal income tax along with property taxes and higher state taxes. When you reach the top of the ladder sales tax and others becomes insignificant, but capital gains and property taxes can take up a higher proportion (depending on how the wealth is arranged). If you still just look at federal tax, some people avoid that cleverly, but on the whole they pay about 30% of income in total taxes.
The figures are just the facts, and the group that put them together is slanted in our direction, if its slanted at all. On the one hand, it disproves the RW slander against the poor - they pay their share. On the other hand, it shows that the wealthiest also pay taxes generally at about the same rate as most people. Individuals (such as Romney) may have their special loopholes and tricks, but the general rate is still there.
What I take away is that the whole thing looks pretty equitable and fair overall. The poor should pay a little less, the rich should pay a little more. And if we had some crisis where we had to drum up another percentage or two, obviously it should come from those who can afford it easily. Closing loopholes and tax breaks on the uber-rich is the obvious best approach.
"Citizens for Tax Justice, founded in 1979, is a 501 (c)(4) public interest research and advocacy organization focusing on federal, state and local tax policies and their impact upon our nation. CTJ's mission is to give ordinary people a greater voice in the development of tax laws. Against the armies of special interest lobbyists for corporations and the wealthy, CTJ fights for:
Fair taxes for middle and low-income families
Requiring the wealthy to pay their fair share
Closing corporate tax loopholes
Adequately funding important government services
Reducing the federal debt
Taxation that minimizes distortion of economic markets"
and so forth. I know the first reaction to discrepant information is to attack the source, rather than research the source, and to dismiss the information, rather than fact-check it or make sure you understand it.
"Total taxes" is the key term. The right tends to look only at federal taxes when they form their talking points, as the federal tax rates are the most progressive and show the poor paying nothing and the wealthiest paying ridiculous amounts in comparison. This is a distortion.
"Total taxes" includes sales tax, which consumes a disproportionate amount of poorer individual's income, as do the fuel and energy taxes, and vehicle registration fees and so forth. When you look at the proportions of a person's income paid in total taxes, those who pay no federal income tax still pay about 20% of their income in taxes.
When you get to the middle classes you add more federal income tax along with property taxes and higher state taxes. When you reach the top of the ladder sales tax and others becomes insignificant, but capital gains and property taxes can take up a higher proportion (depending on how the wealth is arranged). If you still just look at federal tax, some people avoid that cleverly, but on the whole they pay about 30% of income in total taxes.
The figures are just the facts, and the group that put them together is slanted in our direction, if its slanted at all. On the one hand, it disproves the RW slander against the poor - they pay their share. On the other hand, it shows that the wealthiest also pay taxes generally at about the same rate as most people. Individuals (such as Romney) may have their special loopholes and tricks, but the general rate is still there.
What I take away is that the whole thing looks pretty equitable and fair overall. The poor should pay a little less, the rich should pay a little more. And if we had some crisis where we had to drum up another percentage or two, obviously it should come from those who can afford it easily. Closing loopholes and tax breaks on the uber-rich is the obvious best approach.
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Yep, righties complain about the high "rates" of taxes on corporations too...
cascadiance
Mar 2013
#113
Its supposed to include capital gains, federal and state, sales tax, property taxes, etc
bhikkhu
Mar 2013
#67
Capitals gains is the central point, and the bulk of the poolside billionaires' income.
GoneFishin
Mar 2013
#122
Capital gains is a much different rate than income tax, this is alsp the reason Warren Buffett
Thinkingabout
Mar 2013
#123
The top one percent have just experienced the loss of the Bush tax cuts for themselves
fasttense
Mar 2013
#43
That says based on "income". I don't think capital gains is considered income
cui bono
Mar 2013
#192
Catch-22. The people who have the power to change the system are part of the system.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Mar 2013
#13
exactly- how long did it take for the scoundrels to pass the (un)patriot act?
green for victory
Mar 2013
#130
We need to fix the voting system first. Wont be able to get campaign finance laws
rhett o rick
Mar 2013
#125
Ratfuckers generally do advocate for a "new" Democratic party. But that's not what you are, right
KittyWampus
Mar 2013
#3
Your reply makes his point. That is a hateful reply aimed at stifling discussion.
rhett o rick
Mar 2013
#224
He's also making the point tha Obama is offering the Republicans what they want.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Mar 2013
#26
The problem 'centrists' face right now is that one Party is offering actual compromise (DNC)
Bluenorthwest
Mar 2013
#198
One that stands for good government, that won't trade long-term stability for today's talking points
bhikkhu
Mar 2013
#20
What'sa Matter Manny, GOP Implosion Getting You Down? U Figure The Dems Need One of Their Own Too?
Skraxx
Mar 2013
#21
Yes they are very welcome here. That is exactly what the OP is doing, defending
sabrina 1
Mar 2013
#236
I believe it was you who conducted the purity test on the OP. Since you set yourself
sabrina 1
Mar 2013
#241
Voters did not "reject progressive candidates"--voters rejected candidates who ran lousy campaigns
Lydia Leftcoast
Mar 2013
#225
There was a lot of talk about the Democratic Party throwing elections back then.
Egalitarian Thug
Mar 2013
#261
We need a new Rethug party, too, don't ya think? The GOP we have now is full of criminals.
judesedit
Mar 2013
#47
Uh, not quite. Maybe you missed the letter that many in the progressive caucus won't sign.
Dawgs
Mar 2013
#63
Republican strategy is to spend fast and furious when they are in power, then
GoneFishin
Mar 2013
#157
Almost all our institutions are a complete wreck. I agree that there has to be some beachhead.
TheKentuckian
Mar 2013
#71
What can we do other then go to the streets. I'm already surprised that the people
southernyankeebelle
Mar 2013
#78
I wish we'd make our tent a little smaller and send the conservadems back to the Republican Party
Cleita
Mar 2013
#94
Now it is the Third Way centrists who maintain that both Parties are equally at fault
Bluenorthwest
Mar 2013
#202
You're totally right - Talk is easy; walking the walk is not; get off your asses
pattiepcomedy
Mar 2013
#112
"Manny and posts that attack the President will always get hundreds of recs."
Number23
Mar 2013
#183
I would be great if Dems stopped being moderate Republicans and Republicans
I Cant Dance
Mar 2013
#109
We need the old Democratic Party back. Kick out the damn conservatives. nm
rhett o rick
Mar 2013
#127
Do you have a link showing that both the CBO and the SSA is using ~8% UE rate
I Cant Dance
Mar 2013
#144
Nobody can predict the future, so that argument goes in circles. You oppose lifting the SS cap.
Romulox
Mar 2013
#219
I couldn't agree with you (or Senator Sanders) more. The arguments against are insane. nt
Romulox
Mar 2013
#242
+22,198 and +4 (the number coincidentally that Nader got in New Hampshire)
graham4anything
Mar 2013
#153
I hear you, and I agree. I feel exactly the same about all the political parties here
BelgianMadCow
Mar 2013
#138
This is what happens when the vast majority of the money and power is hoarded by just a few.
w4rma
Mar 2013
#149
I notice 10 hours after this thread started, you just added the following-
graham4anything
Mar 2013
#176
I love your posts. They are highly entertaining. Love conversing with you.
graham4anything
Mar 2013
#179
Issues are too complicated for someone whose first instinct is to compromise to solve
Lydia Leftcoast
Mar 2013
#244
K & R, to be liberal is to want what our forefathers fully intended, to ensure the survival
mother earth
Mar 2013
#228