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SunSeeker

(57,883 posts)

129. The LA Times and a local station said there was no DNR.

Mon Mar 4, 2013, 11:18 AM

Mar 2013

Even if there had been a DNR, the nurse did not know about it. She was not refusing help because there was a DNR in place. She was refusing help because of the home's policy to ONLY call 911, for ANYONE--whether or not they have a DNR. If this nurse knew this woman had a DNR, she would have told the dispatcher.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0304-senior-dispatcher-20130304,0,43655.story

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Woman dies as nurse refuses to perform CPR [View all] davidn3600 Mar 2013 OP

I saw this report earlier today and couldn't believe it. bluedigger Mar 2013 #1

What if there 840high Mar 2013 #7

That was not the reason they gave in refusing to perform CPR. bluedigger Mar 2013 #10

What kind of fucked up practice is that?! sakabatou Mar 2013 #78

This message was self-deleted by its author Scootaloo Mar 2013 #96

If there was a DNR order, emergency wouldn't have been called. n/t Tempest Mar 2013 #115

As of this morning... pipi_k Mar 2013 #120

They need to lose their license. LiberalFighter Mar 2013 #2

The licensure of the nurse, other staff, and the facility are in jeopardy pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #5

She's a nurse Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #104

Sorry, but you don't do CPR on a "dying" patient. You do it on a dead patient. n/t progressivebydesign Mar 2013 #144

No not "dead." CPR is crucial to maintain oxygenated blood flow anneboleyn Mar 2013 #148

Thank you.... Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #150

They (our local news) said most States have this "order" in Senior Facilities. glinda Mar 2013 #39

And the teabaggers were worried about death panels? LiberalFighter Mar 2013 #99

If "retirement facility" means skilled nursing facility, pipoman Mar 2013 #3

I wonder if residents had a DNR order.. HipChick Mar 2013 #4

I work in a skilled nursing facility pipoman Mar 2013 #21

A skilled nursing facility is a nursing home certified for Medicare. It includes lots of kinds of HiPointDem Mar 2013 #62

True, pipoman Mar 2013 #105

That's perfectly reasonable but if that is their policy malaise Mar 2013 #86

Good question. I've heard that if you don't want attempts at resuscitation, pnwmom Mar 2013 #93

Apparently in this case pipoman Mar 2013 #101

Good for you! pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #102

Then there should be CPR malaise Mar 2013 #106

Absolutely pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #109

I don't disagree pipoman Mar 2013 #110

The nurse did not say so. Only that she was not permitted to perform cpr anneboleyn Mar 2013 #149

From the linked story, she was in the "independent" part of the facility pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #12

Sounds odd for sure pipoman Mar 2013 #25

because...? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #13

see post 21 pipoman Mar 2013 #26

see post 62. SNF is a facility certified for medicare and does not necessarily = end of life care. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #65

True to a point..the distinction between pipoman Mar 2013 #108

The article says she was part of the "independent facility" Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #16

Part of the function of a "CCRC" pipoman Mar 2013 #33

Did you (anyone) listen to the tape? I didn't see a link in this article. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #41

My grandfather and his wife (not my grandmother because it's his second marriage) davidpdx Mar 2013 #95

I thought it was just Senior Housing which is different from glinda Mar 2013 #43

Yeah, pipoman Mar 2013 #49

insurance da bear Mar 2013 #80

No ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #48

Did this elderly woman have a DNR order? Was this a licensed nurse, TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #6

Had A DNR in place H. Cromwell Mar 2013 #8

Then why was the nurse calling for rescue? Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #11

That was standard 840high Mar 2013 #17

Don't you think they should clue in the rescue squad racing to get there? Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #20

I think the dispatcher wasn't trained well... joeybee12 Mar 2013 #135

That's standard procedure Warpy Mar 2013 #19

the linked article does not indicate that she had a dnr. have you seen another report? if so, niyad Mar 2013 #36

Link below roxy1234 Mar 2013 #98

The LA Times and a local station said there was no DNR. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #129

You made a good point roxy1234 Mar 2013 #133

thank you. People LOVE to get outraged about everything. nt progressivebydesign Mar 2013 #145

Since she had a DNR, they should have moved her to her room SoCalDem Mar 2013 #89

Not Only is It Legal RobinA Mar 2013 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author Tempest Mar 2013 #116

If I was 87 and in a nursing home nobodyspecial Mar 2013 #9

This is a stupid story. DURHAM D Mar 2013 #14

I would have tripped the code team Warpy Mar 2013 #15

That makes the most sense. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #23

I've seen things like that Warpy Mar 2013 #31

There's nothing like that wet pop of ribs breaking on an elderly patient. *sigh* n/t X_Digger Mar 2013 #52

Yeah, and you can feel it all the way up your arm. Warpy Mar 2013 #55

That is sad Major Nikon Mar 2013 #73

My Dad was also revived with a DNR in place. aquart Mar 2013 #158

Absent a DNR, and assuming the caller was an RN or LPN/LVN, then TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #32

Not necessarily Warpy Mar 2013 #34

I'm surprised that it would be legal to not allow staff to respond as they've TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #47

Nurses and other BLS certified people have never had an absolute Warpy Mar 2013 #50

I'm not saying she wasn't in a tough spot. I don't necessarily think TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #56

That was exactly my question regarding whether a nurse has a professional duty R B Garr Mar 2013 #140

There was no DNR, and the nurse would have good samaritan immunity from assault charges. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #76

The nurse was only authorized to help those who pay extra $$$$ to be in the assisted living section. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #18

Not going to happen if a DNR is in place. DURHAM D Mar 2013 #22

Maybe the next lawsuit will be the person killed in the resulting car accident... Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #29

Independent living people are frequent fliers pipoman Mar 2013 #42

Yes. I've know plenty of healthy high eighties folks who wanted to keep on living. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #46

The home admitted its policy is to not touch ANYONE in the independent living part of the home. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #40

They can have a policy like that legally as long as they are up front about it. pnwmom Mar 2013 #91

Doubtful. That nurse had ethical obligations as well. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #121

I'm not defending the home, but the daughter did say that she thinks pnwmom Mar 2013 #141

Why do you say that? My MIL lived in assisted living and had a DNR in place. pnwmom Mar 2013 #90

My comment was in response to the last sentence. DURHAM D Mar 2013 #111

If there is a DNR in place nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #44

CPR success is usually low, but not a reason to not even try. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #54

As I said, the difference is truly a DNR or not nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #57

There was no DNR, but the real issue is the home's inhuman policy. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #66

Absent a DNR the policy violates nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #68

That's why the nurse's callousness is so shocking pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #74

I don't think it is that shocking nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #127

The issue of the propriety of this policy does not hang on whether there is a DNR. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #79

What part of we agree is missed here? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #124

while eating? and they couldn't even touch her to check for obstruction? now *that* would be HiPointDem Mar 2013 #82

My Dad had CPR at 92 vankuria Mar 2013 #112

there is a difference sweetapogee Mar 2013 #136

THIS is the evil truth. The elderly without $$$ anneboleyn Mar 2013 #151

As I Read H. Cromwell Mar 2013 #24

And the title of it starts with the word "elderly". Which changes one's initial impression KittyWampus Mar 2013 #28

There is no mention of a DNR order in the report pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #30

You must be reading a different article than I. bluedigger Mar 2013 #37

There is no mention of the DNR anywhere in the article nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #38

My mom was in assisted living and we had a DNR on her for years. kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #61

Yup, I know that in San Diego at times they still call paramedics nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #64

Yes, EXTREMELY misleading, if there's a DNR, the nurse is not EMPOWERED to resus. sibelian Mar 2013 #81

it didn't say anything of the sort. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #83

The Actual Title Is ELDERLY Woman Dies As Nurse Refuses to Perfom CPR. Why Was "Elderly" Left Out? KittyWampus Mar 2013 #27

What difference does it make? morningfog Mar 2013 #35

The article was also "updated" at some unspecified time. . . Journeyman Mar 2013 #51

more crappy journalism SmileyRose Mar 2013 #45

Where do you read that she had DNR orders? SunSeeker Mar 2013 #60

Cracked ribs, CPR and the Elderly Samurai_Writer Mar 2013 #138

I'm thinking some people need to go to jail over this. There was a duty to this patient bubbayugga Mar 2013 #53

There is no way to know if CPR would have saved this patient. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #58

We do know that nothing improves your chances of surviving bubbayugga Mar 2013 #63

I don't think it rises to the criminal--no INTENTIONAL harm was done TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #67

I think it does and I think the policy was pretty intentional. bubbayugga Mar 2013 #69

You are saying that CPR is 100% successful KurtNYC Mar 2013 #100

No help is likely 100% fatal. A person should be given a chance, even if very slim. anneboleyn Mar 2013 #153

I didn't say that and broken ribs are better than death. bubbayugga Mar 2013 #159

According to a local station there was no DNR dkf Mar 2013 #59

Someone posted a link to a story where she did have one. n/t Tempest Mar 2013 #117

LINK? pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #122

It's up above in the thread snooper2 Mar 2013 #130

Where? You might at least give a Post number. pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #131

well I did half the work for you LOL, post 98 snooper2 Mar 2013 #132

Both are quoting the same local station so one has it wrong. dkf Mar 2013 #134

The daughter confirms that her mother had no DNR order pinboy3niner Mar 2013 #162

I did hospice care for my wife for 12 days a couple of years ago. jonthebru Mar 2013 #70

not the case. i have known several women who were vigorous, as in taking daily walks around the HiPointDem Mar 2013 #72

This facility is one of those semi-fancy places that have different levels of care: independent HiPointDem Mar 2013 #71

. blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #75

WTF a2liberal Mar 2013 #77

Weird, huh? None of the articles said there was a DNR. Ever. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #84

And this is why I am building my parents a private apartment in my own home Sen. Walter Sobchak Mar 2013 #85

we HAVE to accept death. sometimes it's your time. pansypoo53219 Mar 2013 #87

You believe that asphyxiation by choking on your food is a "good" exit? (nt) w4rma Mar 2013 #88

Technically, she wasn't being "cared for" at this facility because she was in the independent living pnwmom Mar 2013 #92

The daughter's opinion, according to the reporter, is that if her mother had received CPR, pnwmom Mar 2013 #94

Maybe daughter wanted to collect on the inheritance. n/t Tempest Mar 2013 #118

Few people that age are in excellent health. pnwmom Mar 2013 #142

More than you think Tempest Mar 2013 #152

87 is the new 67? What a crock. pnwmom Mar 2013 #161

Why is this news? This happens every day across the country. mainer Mar 2013 #97

I am with you. DURHAM D Mar 2013 #107

The nurse did not use her judgment. She was following the home's "no help" policy. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #123

at first glance - where are the George Zimmerman defenders? Capt. Obvious Mar 2013 #113

Bakersfield prides itself on its friendly people, but this is how they really are. Tempest Mar 2013 #114

This is the only thing that expresses how I feel about this: Ken Burch Mar 2013 #119

Her own daughter is reportedly satisfied with the care her mother received. LisaL Mar 2013 #125

This is a problem? 99Forever Mar 2013 #126

Wha? Zax2me Mar 2013 #160

Was the nurse qualified to perform CPR? (nt) Recursion Mar 2013 #128

I'm rather surprised that 911 was even called - lynne Mar 2013 #137

Yes, I have performed CPR on an 87 year old man Samurai_Writer Mar 2013 #139

So when should a person not receive CPR? At 80? 70? I am not sure what you are suggesting anneboleyn Mar 2013 #155

It's not a particular age... Samurai_Writer Mar 2013 #156

MOre to the story, of course, but the "outrage machine" media wants you pissed. progressivebydesign Mar 2013 #143

I am trying like hell... 1983law Mar 2013 #146

I agree -- it is a lack of "simple humanity" as you say. The callous attitude anneboleyn Mar 2013 #154

I have never heard of a facility like a nursing home to have a policy and-justice-for-all Mar 2013 #147

Surely to goodness there was a damned AED in a facility like that. Was that even used? rateyes Mar 2013 #157

She was NOT a NURSE magical thyme Mar 2013 #163

I've been wondering about that Bay Boy Mar 2013 #164

later articles in MSM corrected some of the misinformation magical thyme Mar 2013 #165