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mvymvy

(309 posts)
5. Realities
Tue Jan 31, 2012, 01:25 PM
Jan 2012

National Popular Vote does not override anything in the US Constitution.

The Founding Fathers in the Constitution did not require states to allow their citizens to vote for president, much less award all their electoral votes based upon the vote of their citizens.

The presidential election system we have today is not in the Constitution. State-by-state winner-take-all laws to award Electoral College votes, were eventually enacted by states, using their exclusive power to do so, AFTER the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution. Now our current system can be changed by state laws again.

Unable to agree on any particular method for selecting presidential electors, the Founding Fathers left the choice of method exclusively to the states in section 1 of Article II of the U.S. Constitution-- "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . ." The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as "plenary" and "exclusive."

The constitution does not prohibit any of the methods that were debated and rejected.


The bill says: "Any member state may withdraw from this agreement, except that a withdrawal occurring six months or less before the end of a President’s term shall not become effective until a President or Vice President shall have been qualified to serve the next term."

Any attempt by a state to pull out of the compact in violation of its terms would violate the Impairments Clause of the U.S. Constitution and would be void. Such an attempt would also violate existing federal law. Compliance would be enforced by Federal court action

The National Popular Vote compact is, first of all, a state law. It is a state law that would govern the manner of choosing presidential electors. A Secretary of State may not ignore or override the National Popular Vote law any more than he or she may ignore or override the winner-take-all method that is currently the law in 48 states.

There has never been a court decision allowing a state to withdraw from an interstate compact without following the procedure for withdrawal specified by the compact. Indeed, courts have consistently rebuffed the occasional (sometimes creative) attempts by states to evade their obligations under interstate compacts.

In 1976, the U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland stated in Hellmuth and Associates v. Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority:

“When enacted, a compact constitutes not only law, but a contract which may not be amended, modified, or otherwise altered without the consent of all parties.”

In 1999, the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania stated in Aveline v. Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole:
“A compact takes precedence over the subsequent statutes of signatory states and, as such, a state may not unilaterally nullify, revoke, or amend one of its compacts if the compact does not so provide.”

In 1952, the U.S. Supreme Court very succinctly addressed the issue in Petty v. Tennessee-Missouri Bridge Commission:
“A compact is, after all, a contract.”

The important point is that an interstate compact is not a mere “handshake” agreement. If a state wants to rely on the goodwill and graciousness of other states to follow certain policies, it can simply enact its own state law and hope that other states decide to act in an identical manner. If a state wants a legally binding and enforceable mechanism by which it agrees to undertake certain specified actions only if other states agree to take other specified actions, it enters into an interstate compact.

Interstate compacts are supported by over two centuries of settled law guaranteeing enforceability. Interstate compacts exist because the states are sovereign. If there were no Compacts Clause in the U.S. Constitution, a state would have no way to enter into a legally binding contract with another state. The Compacts Clause, supported by the Impairments Clause, provides a way for a state to enter into a contract with other states and be assured of the enforceability of the obligations undertaken by its sister states. The enforceability of interstate compacts under the Impairments Clause is precisely the reason why sovereign states enter into interstate compacts. Without the Compacts Clause and the Impairments Clause, any contractual agreement among the states would be, in fact, no more than a handshake.
& &

There have been 22,000 electoral votes cast since presidential elections became competitive (in 1796), and only 10 have been cast for someone other than the candidate nominated by the elector's own political party. The electors now are dedicated party activists of the winning party who meet briefly in mid-December to cast their totally predictable rubberstamped votes in accordance with their pre-announced pledges. Faithless electors are not a practical problem, and most states have complete authority to remedy any problem there could be, by means of state law.

If a Democratic presidential candidate receives the most votes, the state's dedicated Democratic party activists who have been chosen as its slate of electors become the Electoral College voting bloc. If a Republican presidential candidate receives the most votes, the state's dedicated Republican party activists who have been chosen as its slate of electors become the Electoral College voting bloc. The winner of the presidential election is the candidate who collects 270 votes from Electoral College voters from among the winning party's dedicated activists.

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld state laws guaranteeing faithful voting by presidential electors (because the states have plenary power over presidential electors).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

End the electoral college [View all] wilt the stilt Jan 2012 OP
Agreed. Here's a good mathematical case for why... Scuba Jan 2012 #1
The National Popular Vote Bill mvymvy Jan 2012 #2
It's completely unenforceable. Angleae Jan 2012 #3
Realities mvymvy Jan 2012 #5
The whole thing boils down to one question. Angleae Feb 2012 #6
Neither party will allow it to happen joeglow3 Feb 2012 #10
There are all kinds of constitutional problems with National Popular Vote. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #14
Each state has a number of electors equal to its total Congressional representation Zebedeo Jan 2012 #4
Why must this compromise extend to the Presidential election? 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #19
Sounds great, but not likely to ever happen Major Nikon Feb 2012 #7
National Popular Vote is not a constitutional amendment mvymvy Feb 2012 #9
That doesn't end the electorial college as the OP suggested Major Nikon Feb 2012 #12
National Popular Vote does not end the EC, but it does make every vote equal mvymvy Feb 2012 #15
And it's probably unconstitutional. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #18
Would be great -IF... upi402 Feb 2012 #8
As long as you like having the interior states unpaved. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #11
No, we can't Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #13
NPV does NOT require a constitutional amendment. It is 49% of the way to going into effect mvymvy Feb 2012 #16
What stops a state from just not doing this, or Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #17
or if (say) Texas chooses to not participate, and declines to provide a popular vote count? Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #20
Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 6 of the United States Code Requires States to Report Totals mvymvy Feb 2012 #22
And what if Texas refuses? What's the remedy? Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #23
49% of the way to going into effect - Enacted by 3 jurisdictions among the 13 smallest states mvymvy Feb 2012 #21
I'm still not buying it Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #24
It would be a constitutional and administrative nightmare. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #25
NPV achieves the goal of guaranteeing the Presidency to Candidate with most national popular votes mvymvy Feb 2012 #26
But it would be the popular vote of only the states in that 270 block Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #29
Winner of Popular Vote in ALL 50 States and DC gets NPV's enacting states' electoral votes - 270+ mvymvy Feb 2012 #31
I'm still not buying it.. again Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #34
see my post #13 of why this can't be done Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #28
See Post #16 mvymvy Feb 2012 #32
Why? Don't you like a select group picking our leader for us? Rex Feb 2012 #27
It won't change much zipplewrath Feb 2012 #30
Any state that enacts the proportional approach on its own would reduce its own influence mvymvy Feb 2012 #33
About 76% of Americans and States are Ignored Under the Current System mvymvy Feb 2012 #35
When a presidential candidate spends more time in Iowa than California taught_me_patience Feb 2012 #36
That's a totally separate issue. The primary system is decided by the parties Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #37
Iowa was a swing state in 2008 taught_me_patience Feb 2012 #38
Sorry, thought you were talking about the caucuses (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #39
To answer your Q directly: "No, we cannot end it." Bruce Wayne Feb 2012 #40
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