General Discussion

Octafish

(55,745 posts)

215. What a nice thing to say! And what 9/11 conspiracy theories of mine have you debunked, Bolo Boffin?

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 06:54 PM

Mar 2013

Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2013, 07:26 PM - Edit history (1)

About the only time I write about 9/11 has to do with what George W Bush knew beforehand. Still, I try to inform DUers, as I do everyone interested in the topic, as to news and analysis the mass media fail to cover.

On occasion, I have also written about the assassinations of President Kennedy, Senator Kennedy and Dr. King. As part of my distaste for secret government, I have written about the Bush Family Evil Empire, BFEE -- shorthand for the traitors, warmongers and greedheads who have driven America into the ground.

Upon your smears and insinuations, I have invited you to point out where I made any errors of fact or in my analysis. Despite what your memory tells you, you have failed to do so. Somehow I believe that should you find something, I'm sure you'll let me know. You're that observant.

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Obama Administration Says President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil [View all] green for victory Mar 2013 OP

Obama should rethink Buffalo Bull Mar 2013 #1

"with no police officer or civilian in danger" jberryhill Mar 2013 #67

Pearl Harbor? Buffalo Bull Mar 2013 #212

No, I am not justifying any conclusion jberryhill Mar 2013 #214

mea culpa Buffalo Bull Mar 2013 #216

Only an extraordinary circumstance MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #2

Except that Holder does tell you about three concrete examples. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #4

Are we not as a nation STILL engaged in responding to 9/11? I think we are. HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #7

But he won't be able to tell us, or a court, why it's been done MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #9

"Freedom Mist" That would be funny if it wasn't so sad n/t green for victory Mar 2013 #16

It's still kind of funny. randome Mar 2013 #119

US democracy=Freedom Mist or vice versa. SammyWinstonJack Mar 2013 #168

Exactly. ProSense Mar 2013 #13

Yes, but... jberryhill Mar 2013 #82

Who knows? G_j Mar 2013 #125

Could I ask you one question? jberryhill Mar 2013 #130

I wasn't thrilled. nt G_j Mar 2013 #139

"Wasn't"? jberryhill Mar 2013 #143

So it would not be an attack "on Americans" treestar Mar 2013 #179

and i don't recall the us government assassinating anybody at will in any of those either. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #24

And just whom does AG Holder think should/could have been so targeted in those events? WinkyDink Mar 2013 #189

Jesus Christ, why don't you and Ted Cruz go ask him? n/t Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #206

Oh, definitely, there should be a list jberryhill Mar 2013 #78

In your case, what's illegal is (or should be) subject to some sort of judicial review MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #196

No it's not jberryhill Mar 2013 #197

But the renting party can go to court and show that what they were doing was not illegal MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #198

It's worth noting that this is the same team that recently redefined "imminent attack" Marr Mar 2013 #191

absolutely GRENADE Mar 2013 #3

Yep... K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2013 #5

And HERE... Is The Actual Letter (.pdf file): WillyT Mar 2013 #11

Thank you... n/t Fire Walk With Me Mar 2013 #21

You Are Quite Welcome !!! WillyT Mar 2013 #150

"... We have a long history of using the criminal justice system to incapacitate individuals struggle4progress Mar 2013 #199

This scares the crap out of me LiberalEsto Mar 2013 #6

Fuck Rand Paul...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #8

Yeah! The President should be free to explodify anyone he wants. MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #10

Third Party Manny strikes again...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #12

Should Lincoln have been impeached for ordering the US army geek tragedy Mar 2013 #18

They were actively engaged in a capital criminal act. MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #23

So, how are you disagreeing with Eric Holder then? nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #25

The President has reserved the right to kill anyone who he just kinda suspects might do something MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #42

Manny, maybe you should read the letter instead of Rand Paul's press release geek tragedy Mar 2013 #44

I did. MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #48

Here's what Holder wrote: geek tragedy Mar 2013 #141

Good! And *who* determines when "well-established law enforcement authorities" MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #142

he's stating that law enforcement *IS* the better way of dealing with it. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #144

I understand. But what's the answer to my question? nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #146

I don't follow you. Holder is stating that the admin has decided geek tragedy Mar 2013 #148

So terror plots will only ever be disrupted by law enforcement, working with the courts? MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #164

Holder won't be in office past January 19, 2017. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #167

"Not to excuse it, but in the context of a world war, it's somewhat more forgivable to me." ProSense Mar 2013 #20

Exactly... SidDithers Mar 2013 #32

Terra! Terra! Everywhere! Terra! MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #33

Holder's comments are nothing like the dramatic and hyperbolic spin. ProSense Mar 2013 #43

Are we at war? nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #52

Wait, ProSense Mar 2013 #64

Um... I thought *you* mentioned war? MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #147

Amazing, at first glance I thought this to be parody of people like you whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #14

Fuck Rand Paul. Cha Mar 2013 #58

I agree whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #70

No, the answer is not "unacceptable".. it's perfectly reasonable Cha Mar 2013 #89

Well that's good enough for me whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #103

Made me laugh. enlightenment Mar 2013 #138

LOL, like cops only shoot people under extreme cases! Logical Mar 2013 #154

The "blind" support is strong in this one!! n-t Logical Mar 2013 #153

He's right on this issue. WinkyDink Mar 2013 #190

", he said, shaking his fist defiantly in his comfortable room in Canada. Marr Mar 2013 #192

... SidDithers Mar 2013 #193

Holder's response is entirely right on all points, and those hyperventilating geek tragedy Mar 2013 #15

"under armed attack"- missed that part. Where? n/t green for victory Mar 2013 #17

Did you miss the examples cited by Holder? 9/11 and Pearl Harbor, geek tragedy Mar 2013 #22

Well, for one, neither were caused by Americans demwing Mar 2013 #136

Shooting down the hijacked planes would have meant the US geek tragedy Mar 2013 #140

Unavoidable civilian casualties is not the issue demwing Mar 2013 #161

Unavoidable civilian casualties? That would have involved shooting a missile geek tragedy Mar 2013 #162

Look at the examples Holder gave Mutiny In Heaven Mar 2013 #35

well it's not fucking explicit either demwing Mar 2013 #134

Because that is not a do-able task jberryhill Mar 2013 #145

key words: "under armed attack". not the power that is being claimed. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #27

What power is being claimed? Did you even read the letter? nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #31

yes. i did. and the wording is broad & misleading. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #54

You are making a factual misrepresentation. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #62

it's not *explicit* at all. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #85

Because he was answering a direct question from Rand Paul. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #87

Okay, so jberryhill Mar 2013 #88

in this context, which is the ongoing use of *preemptive* force, on the basis of secret evidence, HiPointDem Mar 2013 #105

Ah okay jberryhill Mar 2013 #109

"lethal force" is also too broad a term, because it's *targeted assassinations* that's going on. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #114

Missed the point jberryhill Mar 2013 #115

the special circumstances that holder mentions clearly *have* happened before, as he lists 3 HiPointDem Mar 2013 #123

Actually, we did try to use preemptive targeted assasination against Bin Laden jberryhill Mar 2013 #131

not targeted at bin laden, but at supposed 'terrorist bases' in afghanistan and sudan. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #172

Blame Rand Paul for the use of the term "lethal force." nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #170

"And so it begins..." Fire Walk With Me Mar 2013 #19

Began 200 years ago with the Whiskey Rebellion. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #28

i don't recall the US preemptively killing the leaders of the whiskey rebellion either. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #36

I don't recall this letter claiming the authority to do that. I've read it--have you? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #39

if this letter were *not* claiming that by implication, there would be no controversy. presidents HiPointDem Mar 2013 #61

There's nothing new here. You're being trolled by Rand Paul. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #66

Fucking nailed it. "You're being trolled by Rand Paul"... SidDithers Mar 2013 #73

then it seems it's holder who's being 'trolled' by paul, not me. the wonder is that he does not HiPointDem Mar 2013 #91

Fuck it, I'm moving to a country that doesn't need to kill it's citizens to protect them. whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #26

Yeah, fuck that Abraham Lincoln! geek tragedy Mar 2013 #34

He should have had his soldiers link arms and sing Mutiny In Heaven Mar 2013 #38

We're not fighting each other aka Civil War whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #49

Ummm, who was on board those airplanes? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #55

So it's not about declaring Americans enemy combatants whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #68

If it meant saving 3000 other human beings, I would have geek tragedy Mar 2013 #72

Well whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #80

He specifically cited Pearl Harbor and 9/11. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #92

Well he was intelligent enough not to say whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #100

Yeah, I'll go ahead and stick to what he said. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #101

Please let me know when you find a country that will let me immigrate green for victory Mar 2013 #46

Adios. Cha Mar 2013 #65

why is it Rand Paul asking this? G_j Mar 2013 #29

Its good politics. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2013 #63

GOOD FUCKING GOD. woo me with science Mar 2013 #30

Nope not even close- look upthread n/t green for victory Mar 2013 #37

court jester, Gravel Democrat...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #45

Forum tourettes syndrome? green for victory Mar 2013 #50

Oh, I'm sure you know exactly what those names mean...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #56

You are quite sure of lots of things. n/t green for victory Mar 2013 #83

Yup. Some things I'm completely sure of...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #86

What's wrong with being a ''Gravel Democrat''? Octafish Mar 2013 #210

Nothing wrong with being a Gravel Democrat...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #211

Same familiar names. Same shameless "arguments." woo me with science Mar 2013 #176

Speculative outrage is the best outrage...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #40

Knee Jerk is neck and neck. Cha Mar 2013 #60

Occupy, I hope you're paying attention. MadHound Mar 2013 #41

More fact-free bullshit. n/t ProSense Mar 2013 #47

So you're comfy with this power being in the hands of, oh, say Jeb Bush? MadHound Mar 2013 #53

First ProSense Mar 2013 #71

OK, are you comfortable with this power in the hands of any Republican in the future? MadHound Mar 2013 #77

I am ProSense Mar 2013 #84

LOL! Don't have the courage to answer the question. MadHound Mar 2013 #94

Courage: I'm comfortable with all President's exercising the Constitutional powers Holder cited. ProSense Mar 2013 #98

So you're comfy with Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, or Paul Ryan having this power? Yes or no, no dancing. MadHound Mar 2013 #104

They'll never be elected President, ProSense Mar 2013 #113

Well thank you, you finally gave a straight answer, MadHound Mar 2013 #121

Like I said ProSense Mar 2013 #124

Like I said, MadHound Mar 2013 #129

Clearly ProSense Mar 2013 #132

Oh, so now you're going back on your answer above, MadHound Mar 2013 #135

I'm not in favor of a Republican president being elected in the first place jberryhill Mar 2013 #137

"Every American has the right to know when their government is allowed to kill them." HiPointDem Mar 2013 #173

No republican will ever roxy1234 Mar 2013 #106

LOL, I was waiting for the White House response! n-t Logical Mar 2013 #156

LOL! ProSense Mar 2013 #158

We get it Pro, Obama is perfect, Obama never makes mistakes, Blah, Blah, Blah. n-t Logical Mar 2013 #165

No ProSense Mar 2013 #166

Please quote the language from Holder's letter you find objectionable. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #51

I'll ask you the same question I asked ProSense above, MadHound Mar 2013 #57

Yes. Every president in US history has had the power to geek tragedy Mar 2013 #59

OMG, so that's how far you'll go to defend this unConstitutional bullshit, MadHound Mar 2013 #69

You clearly ProSense Mar 2013 #76

You are making a sad spectacle of yourself trying to defend this unconstitutional act. MadHound Mar 2013 #81

You make a ProSense Mar 2013 #90

Killing a person without due process, simply on the secret orders of a President, MadHound Mar 2013 #96

That has nothing to do with Holder's point. n/t ProSense Mar 2013 #99

No, it looks like the Constitution is no longer relevant, MadHound Mar 2013 #102

Nonsense. n/t ProSense Mar 2013 #118

So, your position is that the president can never authorize the geek tragedy Mar 2013 #171

What part of due process don't you understand? MadHound Mar 2013 #177

Lincoln didn't get Congressional authorization. He relied on a 1792 statute. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #178

I just love people who rely on the intertubes to get their history lessons, MadHound Mar 2013 #180

Eric Holder's letter did not claim or assert the power to kill US citizens on US soil geek tragedy Mar 2013 #181

Took one huge step towards that, MadHound Mar 2013 #183

It didn't take any step--it just recited what everyone already agreed upon. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #184

No, it didn't prevent Obama from doing anything, or any future president for that matter, MadHound Mar 2013 #187

Do you really think if Obama was going to start murdering people on US soil geek tragedy Mar 2013 #188

What part of what Holder wrote offends your understanding geek tragedy Mar 2013 #169

Exactly what power do you mean? struggle4progress Mar 2013 #201

Enemies of the State, Beware! Octafish Mar 2013 #74

Don't worry, Octafish. From all indications, you'll never make the list. n/t Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #75

Knowing you're there to report me makes me feel so much more secure, boloboffin. Octafish Mar 2013 #93

Good Lord, if I had the power to put you on a list like that, I never would. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #97

I'd sleep better knowing that no one was above the law, including the president, boloboffin. Octafish Mar 2013 #107

You know Octafish whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #111

You have a citation for that purported quote of mine, whachamacallit? Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #117

It hurts to laugh. Octafish Mar 2013 #127

Yes. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #151

As is being pointed out here, Octafish, this power is something Presidents have always had. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #116

Hadn't noticed that. Octafish Mar 2013 #120

Inherent in the commander in chief powers, Octafish Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #149

No, the president does not have an 'inherent' power to execute American citizens at will. Octafish Mar 2013 #207

Who the fuck said "at will"? Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #208

I did. Because that's what the president does now. Octafish Mar 2013 #209

No. He does not. The idea that he does is the most despicable BS you've come up with yet. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #213

What a nice thing to say! And what 9/11 conspiracy theories of mine have you debunked, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Mar 2013 #215

Of course he can. Any president can. Look at what happened at Kent State University. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #79

did the president or governor order those shootings? no. they ordered the national guard out, HiPointDem Mar 2013 #110

Misreading? jberryhill Mar 2013 #112

Was there a "shoot" order from the president, governor, or commander of the unit -- or not? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #122

"misread something in the situation" jberryhill Mar 2013 #128

This very thread illustrates the real divide in this country green for victory Mar 2013 #95

It's been said, but... sagat Mar 2013 #108

But of course it will only be used on really, really bad people! n2doc Mar 2013 #126

This is NOT News People Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2013 #133

They should say: "This authority does not apply unless the nation is experiencing an ongoing attack" limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #152

I agree that the authority can be better defined. And have a review process in place. randome Mar 2013 #159

I don't think a review process would really be that good. limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #163

Hell, even the Inquisition went to the trouble of holding trials before executions. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #155

Nice to see Democrats propagating RAND PAUL'S rhetoric. Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #157

F the lying repugs, this is a real issue with devastating consequences just1voice Mar 2013 #175

Chief Executive or Chief Executioner? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #160

Ordered assassination of Americans is A-OK with loyalists from both parties just1voice Mar 2013 #174

No, you're misreading those posts just as you're misreading the Holder letter. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #186

It's important for the government to be able to murder me Nevernose Mar 2013 #182

One Crazy Question Here.... Jasana Mar 2013 #185

agreed G_j Mar 2013 #195

the libertarians question Buffalo Bull Mar 2013 #205

This should not be allowed to fall off of the first page. Fire Walk With Me Mar 2013 #194

Im defenetly dissapointed. in most thats happening right now. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #200

Huh. That's hardly encouraging. ellie Mar 2013 #202

Kick. Ignoring it does not make it go away. woo me with science Mar 2013 #203

Unrec. Ridiculous spin doesn't make it true. FSogol Mar 2013 #204