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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
44. You wanna know the real reason?
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 02:28 PM
Mar 2013

Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2013, 10:14 AM - Edit history (3)

A policy change that added his name to the kill list. For a long time, there was as much reason to keep Mr. al-Awlaki alive as to kill him, as he was one of the most useful AQ assets the U.S. had. I didn't say that, Michael Scheuer, who headed the CIA Bin Laden Issues Unit, otherwise known as Alec Station, said that al-Awlaki was a US "agent". See below.* But, something happened in late 2009 that tipped the balance against al-Awlaki, sealing his fate. Here's what did it.

What changed? A Presidential policy memo. The term used was a "security review" following the so-called Underwear Bomb Plot. See, http://travel.state.gov/law/legal/testimony/testimony_4635.html

And, that goes back to two proximate terrorist attacks that involved persons who had contact with al-Awlaki, or those who appeared to be immediately around him. The Fort Hood shooting was a mass murder that took place on November 5, 2009, and then there was the highly untidy, nearly botched Underwear Bomber incident at Xmas 2009, which blew the lid off the operation, and seemed to really shake things up. That was followed for emphasis by the attempted car bombing of Times Square on May 1, 2010.

But, it was the Christmas Plot over Detroit that appears to have led to the White House decision to refocus counter-terrorism operations away from the use of agents provocateur and the attendant limitation of damage strategy (dud bombs) toward outright targeted killing of al-Alwaki. An article in today's NYT confirms that the President stepped in to change policy after the operation was blown after other passengers noticed the bomb-wearer, a Nigerian student, was assisted through Airport Security in Amsterdam by a well-dressed man with an American accent. The fact that he was allowed on the plane, even though his name appeared in a terrorist look-out book, and was able to partially detonate the liquid explosives in his seat as the airliner approached Detroit was too much. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/world/middleeast/anwar-al-awlaki-a-us-citizen-in-americas-cross-hairs.html?google_editors_picks=true&_r=0

Aware that Mr. Obama, shaken by the underwear bombing attempt, was closely following the hunt, agencies competed to get new scraps about Mr. Awlaki into the president’s daily intelligence briefing, a former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst said.


There was even a subsequent limited public acknowledgement that the Underwear Bomber was issued and allowed to maintain his visa even though his name appeared on the terrorist look-out book, because the AQ network in Yemen around al-Awlaki was the real target of US intelligence. Undersecretary of State Patrick Kennedy all but acknowledged that in testimony before the Senate Committee in early January 2010. http://www.state.gov/m/rls/remarks/2010/135865.htm

There have been numerous cases where our unilateral and uncoordinated revocation would have disrupted important investigations that were underway by one of our national security partners. They had the individual under investigation and our revocation action would have disclosed the U.S. Government's interest in the individual and ended our colleagues' ability to quietly pursue the case and identify terrorists' plans and co-conspirators.


http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1705667530?bctid=63664173001

There was an even more explicit admission of how US Counterterrorism allows intending terrorists into the U.S.. In testimony to a Congressional Committee on January 20, 2010, a ranking US intelligence official acknowledged that practice: http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/terrorism-watch-lists-dont-necessarily-bar-entry-officials-say/

In an unusual and startling admission, Michael Leiter, director of the National Counterterrorism Center, disclosed the practice during a Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing Wednesday.

"I will tell you, that when people come to the country and they are on the watch list, it is because we have generally made the choice that we want them here in the country for some reason or another," Leiter said.

On Thursday, a U.S. intelligence official confirmed that people who are on three of four federal terrorist watch lists are sometimes allowed into the country.

"In certain situations it's to our advantage to be able to track individuals who might be on a terrorist watch list because you can learn something from their activities and their contacts," the official said.

The three watch lists include the TIDE database, which has about 550,000 names; the FBI's terrorist watch list, which has about 400,000 names; and another list of about 14,000 people who are flagged for secondary screening at the nation's airports.

"This would not include individuals who are on the no-fly list," the official added.

It was not clear how many people on watch lists have been allowed into the country. But the revelation could prompt a blowback in Congress, where lawmakers have been pressing to expand watch lists.



Quite extraordinarily, that explosion of candor about previous US counterterrorism policies and practices coincided with the decision to kill the US citizen now reclassified as a "senior operational figure" within AQ was even leaked into the major media later that month in reports naming al-Alwaki:

CIA may target first U.S. citizen
By Greg Miller, Chicago Tribune
Stars and Stripes online edition, Sunday, January 31, 2010

WASHINGTON — The CIA sequence for a Predator strike ends with a missile but begins with a memo. Usually no more than two or three pages long, it bears the name of a suspected terrorist, the latest intelligence on his activities, and a case for why he should be added to a list of people the agency is trying to kill.

The list typically contains about two dozen names, a number that expands each time a new memo is signed by CIA executives on the seventh floor at agency headquarters, and contracts as targets thousands of miles away, in places including Pakistan and Yemen, seem to spontaneously explode.

No U.S. citizen has ever been on the CIA's target list, which mainly names al-Qaida leaders, including Osama bin Laden, according to current and former U.S. officials. But that is expected to change as CIA analysts compile a case against a Muslim cleric who was born in New Mexico but now resides in Yemen.

Anwar al-Awlaki poses a dilemma for U.S. counter-terrorism officials. He is a U.S. citizen and until recently was mainly known as a preacher espousing radical Islamic views. But al-Awlaki's connections to November's shootings at Fort Hood and the failed Christmas Day airline plot have helped convince CIA analysts that his role has changed.

"Over the past several years, Awlaki has gone from propagandist to recruiter to operational player," said a U.S. counter-terrorism official.


Rest of article at: http://www.stripes.com/news/cia-may-target-first-u-s-citizen-1.98535

________________________________________
* al-Awlaki appears to be a classic double-agent or agent provocateur. He's been at the center of too many of these incidents for too long -- al-Alwaki was the chaperone for the Flt. 77 hijackers for many months after the CIA CounterTerrorism Center (CTC) followed them from an AQ planning summit in Malaysia and "lost track" of them after they entered the US in January 2000. He then took care of the pair, and al-Hazmi followed him from San Diego to Northern Virginia along with another principal 9/11 hijackers -- yet the Feds let al-Awlaki go after 9/11 and again, a second time, after he was arrested upon returning to the US a couple years after 9/11. That's called, Catch and Release.

He was also in contact with the Shoe Bomber, the Ft. Hood killer, and the Underwear Bomber, and was also linked to the attempted bombing of Times Square and the toner cartrage plot to bring down FedEx cargo planes.

The only question is how witting his role was as the spider at the center of the CIA (and/or) DIA and FBI CT web(s). Mike Scheuer, the head of the CIA CTC Bin Laden Unit that Tenet replaced in 1999 with his own guys, Cofer Black and Rich Blee (who ordered the FBI liaison officer at CTC to withhold a warning cable that the Flt. 77 hijackers had entered the US), has said so himself. See, below.



We've had too many chances to capture or kill him since, for there to not be a good reason why we seemingly failed to do so for so long.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

A citizen does not have a right to take up arms, join our enemies & make war against the US govt. baldguy Mar 2013 #1
He did not take up arms, nor did he make war against the US. MadHound Mar 2013 #2
He didn't kill any Americans, but he certainly wanted to. And he praised those who did. baldguy Mar 2013 #6
There are lots of people in this world who want to kill Americans, and praise those who do so, MadHound Mar 2013 #11
And here we can question, monitor, even infiltrate those organizations. randome Mar 2013 #14
Well gee, we managed to do just that to get bin-Laden. MadHound Mar 2013 #16
I am not in charge of the military. randome Mar 2013 #19
Well that's a lame answer, MadHound Mar 2013 #20
Not at all what I meant. randome Mar 2013 #24
So killing American citizens without due process doesn't rise to the level of grievous activities? MadHound Mar 2013 #28
You KNOW the response to this. randome Mar 2013 #31
But that's the point, MadHound Mar 2013 #36
I'm sorry BO 08 Mar 2013 #40
So you do believe treestar Mar 2013 #129
hundreds? BO 08 Mar 2013 #35
LOL! MadHound Mar 2013 #39
You are forgetting the precedent Rigby5 Mar 2013 #190
Gen. Westmoreland salutes you. WinkyDink Mar 2013 #127
He would not like my counter salute. randome Mar 2013 #132
That's not the policy, has never been the policy, and there are no plans for that being the policy baldguy Mar 2013 #25
Well, judging by how the drone program is being carried out, that is indeed the policy. MadHound Mar 2013 #32
How many Americans have been killed by armed drones on American soil? Zero. baldguy Mar 2013 #66
Actually three US citizens have been killed by US drone strikes, at least that we know about. MadHound Mar 2013 #78
You are lying again. baldguy Mar 2013 #101
I used the same quote you posted, MadHound Mar 2013 #144
The reality of the situation is that you're trying to pin an imaginary policy onto the President baldguy Mar 2013 #153
You're the one misquoting Holder's letter... ljm2002 Mar 2013 #195
Sorry, but I have no sympathy for ANYONE, US citizen or not, who engages in.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #103
So, leaving al-Awlaki out of it altogether, what about his son Abdulrahman al-Awlaki? MadHound Mar 2013 #146
Wow. Your post is so full of false assumptions. But no matter what anyone tries to tell you.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #164
Bush killed more americans than 911 did. Based on a bunch of fucking lies. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #172
Remember the parameters of the drone program: baldguy Mar 2013 #176
self-serving garbage to rationalize crimes every bit as awful as anything done by our official HiPointDem Mar 2013 #177
Using military force for law enforcement operations is illegal. baldguy Mar 2013 #180
so is bombing other countries and assassinating their citizens. fuck this pretense of 'legality' HiPointDem Mar 2013 #181
Why don't you try reading the thread before spouting off? baldguy Mar 2013 #182
"Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist HiPointDem Mar 2013 #184
I think many of us don't 'support' it, per se. randome Mar 2013 #183
Eric Holder altered those parameters... ljm2002 Mar 2013 #196
but he certainly wanted to- we dont execute people for their wants leftyohiolib Mar 2013 #13
Ever visit facebook or Free Republic? whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #91
You're using the same "reasoning" the OP is. And it's nothing but lying propaganda against Obama. baldguy Mar 2013 #102
Riiight... whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #119
Bush killed more americans than this guy could dream of. Based on a fucking lie. Drone *him*. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #171
"...but he certainly wanted to." You made madhound's case right there. n/t truth2power Mar 2013 #199
"fire in a crowded theater" hfojvt Mar 2013 #17
Really? MadHound Mar 2013 #18
that might be news to these guys hfojvt Mar 2013 #73
He gave up his citizenship when he joined Al Quaeda LastDemocratInSC Mar 2013 #72
And yet he's still the hero poster boy of the anti-Obama crowd. baldguy Mar 2013 #75
Thanks for showing your agenda finally in this thread. Rex Mar 2013 #81
Run along. You'll miss the next Alex Jones Show. baldguy Mar 2013 #105
+1 uponit7771 Mar 2013 #110
Key words you are leaving out, "Potentially Expatriating Acts." MadHound Mar 2013 #85
he 'joined' al qaeda? is there an official sign-up sheet with a secret handshake? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #173
Wrong, any person has that right, and it is government that has no rights. Rigby5 Mar 2013 #188
This was settled in 1865. A US citizen taking up arms against the US govt is committing treason. baldguy Mar 2013 #192
And if he was holed up in a building here in America... randome Mar 2013 #3
Accidently, that is a key word in your hypothetical scenario, MadHound Mar 2013 #4
I dunno, maybe don't hang out in a country we're bombing the shit out of NightWatcher Mar 2013 #5
So why are we launching drone strikes against Yemeni, and US, citizens? MadHound Mar 2013 #7
Abdulrahman al-Aulaqi made the mistake of having dinner with Ibrahim al-Banna hack89 Mar 2013 #100
Umm, no, that is not true. MadHound Mar 2013 #143
No excuses - it was an unfortunate accident hack89 Mar 2013 #145
No, it wasn't an "unfortunate accident". MadHound Mar 2013 #148
Ahhhh yes... 99Forever Mar 2013 #9
i'll bet you'd show some outrage if it was a drone belonging to another government. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #174
Bush needs to be arrested for war crimes for okaying this... RetroLounge Mar 2013 #8
His son was executed by drone two weeks later for even less discernable reasons. Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #10
Because he occupied the expanded battlefield, Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #12
The AUMF essentially makes the whole world a battlefield which means everybody is a potential target MadHound Mar 2013 #15
and for this very reason theaocp Mar 2013 #22
Broad sweeping authority does not make it unconstitutional... Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #27
Step back a minute, MadHound Mar 2013 #80
An Amicus Brief is not a court decision. So your comment about Constitutionality is invalid. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #113
You aren't quoting any court. onenote Mar 2013 #120
A beautiful nugget of accurate information... Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #121
It actually reaches beyond the constitution, we are talking absolute tyranny here. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #185
Horsefeathers. n/t DeSwiss Mar 2013 #99
To make the President look like a tough dude. (nt) limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #21
An exercise in PR pretending we didn't lose the war on "terra". Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #23
invisible unaccountable dumbass idiots obsessed with power librechik Mar 2013 #26
perhaps the President/cia didn't share all of their information with you???? spanone Mar 2013 #29
Ah, so we should wait until all the information is in before doing anything, eh? MadHound Mar 2013 #34
+1 DCBob Mar 2013 #108
Have we learned nothing from VietNam and "The Pentagon Papers"? WinkyDink Mar 2013 #130
Two points Melike Death from Drones cheering squad NEVER address. 99Forever Mar 2013 #30
Despite the denigrating name you have assigned, jazzimov Mar 2013 #77
I hope that there is more to the story. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #33
You mean outside of the treasonous videos he made? cliffordu Mar 2013 #37
He didn't renounce his citizenship. MadHound Mar 2013 #43
IF you cannot see the difference between Fonda and her photo op cliffordu Mar 2013 #46
So again, the question, MadHound Mar 2013 #49
He was neither convicted nor even charged with treason. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #186
HE bragged about his treason. cliffordu Mar 2013 #187
Seems it would be easy to get the indictment then, right? TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #198
If there were any way to get him, sure. cliffordu Mar 2013 #202
Hint, he is an Arab roxy1234 Mar 2013 #38
Funny thing is, both men were born in the US. MadHound Mar 2013 #45
Well At Least Yours Got Some Responses... WillyT Mar 2013 #41
Oh, I have my "fans", MadHound Mar 2013 #48
americans have unlimited rights to butcher anyone at any time for any reason. its in the 10 msongs Mar 2013 #42
You wanna know the real reason? leveymg Mar 2013 #44
my good man BO 08 Mar 2013 #51
I called it a policy change. You used the "C" word. leveymg Mar 2013 #58
You said there must be some reason BO 08 Mar 2013 #64
Semantical difference? When agencies carry out conspiracies they're called programs and policies. leveymg Mar 2013 #70
Sorry what are we talking about? BO 08 Mar 2013 #71
You interjected an assumption into the narrative that doesn't necessarily follow the rest. leveymg Mar 2013 #74
Sadly roxy1234 Mar 2013 #55
The timing was very significant. On Dec. 24, the day before the Underwear Bomber was put on that leveymg Mar 2013 #61
Because ProSense Mar 2013 #47
Actually it isn't a law, it hasn't been passed by Congress, MadHound Mar 2013 #50
The same UN that brought up war crime charges BO 08 Mar 2013 #52
Yes, ProSense Mar 2013 #54
Full quote, MadHound Mar 2013 #60
Al-Awlaki was an American citizen on paper only. Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #53
No, he was actually born here, MadHound Mar 2013 #59
The 1 attack he is accused of "coordinating" resulted in no casualties except the bomber's scorched leveymg Mar 2013 #67
He appears to have been a double-agent who worked both sides. We don't know what he believed he leveymg Mar 2013 #63
Yes, good riddance indeed. :-/ n/t DeSwiss Mar 2013 #123
Because he was a bad man... SomethingFishy Mar 2013 #56
Why was Osama bin Laden executed without trial? Cleita Mar 2013 #57
"The use of poisons of chemical and biological weapons against population centers is allowed" bhikkhu Mar 2013 #62
"By any means necessary." Malcolm X MadHound Mar 2013 #82
False equivalences are easy when its not your decision, or your responsibility bhikkhu Mar 2013 #89
You are making the mistake that many people make, MadHound Mar 2013 #94
He took up arms against the US in a time of war bhikkhu Mar 2013 #115
It's similar to opposition to the death penalty. randome Mar 2013 #117
He took up arms? Really? Show me when and where. MadHound Mar 2013 #150
I can tell you for certain this is just another Obama-Hater thread. nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #65
+1000 baldguy Mar 2013 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author demosincebirth Mar 2013 #76
Nope, it's about the issue of drones, not the man who is launching them, MadHound Mar 2013 #84
Sorry, not buying the idea that you don't have a vendetta against the President. nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #97
Why should I have a vendetta against the President? MadHound Mar 2013 #142
that is a terrible response Enrique Mar 2013 #134
You are also welcome to your opinion, however misguided it may be... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #138
what's insulting? Enrique Mar 2013 #156
Please refer me to the post where I engaged in "flippant namecalling".... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #159
No...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #69
You conveniently forget Mr. Awlaki's involvement in the BA bomb plot, the Cargo Bomb plot, Times msanthrope Mar 2013 #79
Actually, you are glossing over a lot there, MadHound Mar 2013 #86
Direct contact and conspiracy with Rajib Karim on the BA Passenger Bomb Plot-- msanthrope Mar 2013 #87
LOL, let me repeat myself, MadHound Mar 2013 #93
Handwringing over a terrorist who was directly plotting to kill Americans. He was lawfully killed msanthrope Mar 2013 #95
But, but, but don't you understand? If we can kill a US citizen/terrorist overseas,..... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #98
Anyone who poses a threat to the safety of others and cannot be arrested - see Tennesee v Garner. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #147
No, it wasn't under the authority of Congress, MadHound Mar 2013 #141
MadHound--the AUMF of 9/18/2001 was passed by Congress, invoking the WPA, and directing msanthrope Mar 2013 #149
AUMF was declared unconstituional by the US District Court, Southern District of New York MadHound Mar 2013 #151
Wrong law, MadHound. Hedges vs. Obama involved the NDAA of 2012. And it was stayed. msanthrope Mar 2013 #152
On January 25, 2010, al-Awlaki's name had already been published as being on the kill list. He must leveymg Mar 2013 #116
Didn't you get the memo? '9/11 changed everything'. Rex Mar 2013 #83
This message was self-deleted by its author moondust Mar 2013 #88
"Expert Advisor" moondust Mar 2013 #90
if we could have bombed Tokyo Rose JCMach1 Mar 2013 #92
He was an American traitor who advocated killing his own people. Fuck him. BlueStater Mar 2013 #96
+1000. nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #104
you could say that about a lot of people Enrique Mar 2013 #135
For the-President-can-do-no-wrong crowd: AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #106
So, Obama is Nixon now? Killing terrorists is the same as spying on political opponents? baldguy Mar 2013 #111
So the best that you have are straw-men and false equivalencies? AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #112
By posting the video you're comparing Obama to Nixon. That's false equivalency - BY DEFINITION. baldguy Mar 2013 #114
The words in the video speak for themselves. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #126
Nixons stance doesn't apply to this situation. And YOU brought him into this thread, not me. baldguy Mar 2013 #133
You are fabricating what was posted at #106. Anyone can read it for themselves and see that AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #136
I'm thinking you haven't watched the video you've posted. baldguy Mar 2013 #137
The words in the video at #106 speak for themselves and anyone can verify that for themselves. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #139
... because ... JoePhilly Mar 2013 #107
Now this is a real example of a slippery slope... Taverner Mar 2013 #109
Why? DeSwiss Mar 2013 #118
You ignore the fact baldguy Mar 2013 #122
this is why... DCBob Mar 2013 #124
But of course... 99Forever Mar 2013 #128
That only applies to people who are willing to be treestar Mar 2013 #131
not my tale.. got it from the article. DCBob Mar 2013 #140
He was not executed treestar Mar 2013 #125
It's hard to be tried when you're not actually formally accused of anything. BlueCheese Mar 2013 #154
It's hard to formally accuse someone who will not cooperate with legal processes treestar Mar 2013 #161
You don't need to capture someone in order to indict him. BlueCheese Mar 2013 #162
You do if you are going to try him. treestar Mar 2013 #165
My point is that it's odd to ask someone to turn himself in if he hasn't been indicted. BlueCheese Mar 2013 #166
If we have to make indictments against every terrorist abroad treestar Mar 2013 #189
Your argument for killing someone is that it might be "awkard" to indict them? Are you joking? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #194
You are very wrong to characterize my argument that way treestar Mar 2013 #201
So because he wouldn't turn himself in, we have a right to murder him? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #163
If they are a danger to others treestar Mar 2013 #191
You don't earn due process. It is a right. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #193
Virtually anyone charged with a crime participates in those charges about 0% TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #197
I don't think they did an indictment treestar Mar 2013 #200
He was an Enemy of the State™ BlueCheese Mar 2013 #155
way too subtle a parody Enrique Mar 2013 #157
Anwar al-Awlaki was a big boy who knew what he was getting into arely staircase Mar 2013 #158
The same arguments used to justify torture are used to justify drone murders. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #160
Sorry, not even close... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #168
There is legal precedent for "inhanced interrogation techniques." Doesn't make it right. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #169
"Legal precedent" for torture? Because Bush Admin lawyers said it was okay to do so?.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #178
What I'm saying is that legality does not necessarily dictate ethics. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #179
He was a shitbag terrorist, that's why. sagat Mar 2013 #167
How do you know he was a "shitbag terrorist?" Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #170
george w bush is a shitbag terrorist who killed more americans than 911, based on a pack of lies. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #175
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