General Discussion

Divernan

(15,480 posts)

137. I ALL READY SHOWED YOU THE STATS 30 MINUTES AGO! IN THIS VERY THREAD!

Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:04 PM

Mar 2013

And I asked you to show me any data contradicting those stats. And you haven't.

Evidently accepting the demonstrated reality challenges your world view.
Try to focus and read:

113. DC (28%);Baltimore(35%);Phillie(44%);Chicago(41%)teachers w/kids in private schools

My research shows this is a popular question for conservative think tanks - probably because they have a winner on this topic. I would welcome any studies refuting these numbers, should you provide them (rather than your own opinion). I would think that the teachers' unions would have challenged these findings, if they could. So yes, this is a quote from the Washington Times, referring to a study by a conservative think tank. I repeat, can you come up with any studies to refute these percentages? Have at it!

Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private schools for their own children, the study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute found. More than 1 in 5 public school teachers said their children attend private schools.

In Washington (28 percent), Baltimore (35 percent) and 16 other major cities, the figure is more than 1 in 4. In some cities, nearly half of the children of public school teachers have abandoned public schools.

In Philadelphia, 44 percent of the teachers put their children in private schools; in Cincinnati, 41 percent; Chicago, 39 percent; Rochester, N.Y., 38 percent. The same trends showed up in the San Francisco-Oakland area, where 34 percent of public school teachers chose private schools for their children; 33 percent in New York City and New Jersey suburbs; and 29 percent in Milwaukee and New Orleans.

Michael Pons, spokesman for the National Education Association, the 2.7-million-member public school union, declined a request for comment on the study’s findings. The American Federation of Teachers also declined to comment.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/sep/22/20040922-122847-5968r/#ixzz2NFCYsapg

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Where do Michelle Rhee's children go to school? Glad you asked.... [View all] HiPointDem Mar 2013 OP

du rec. nt xchrom Mar 2013 #1

I find it disgusting, bringing children into a political fight. We have no idea why that family msanthrope Mar 2013 #12

Thank you jehop61 Mar 2013 #34

Have you noticed that NOT ONE POSTER wants to talk about her kid in public school? Not one. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #60

Why is she depriving any of her children of the wonderful Bush NCLB sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #270

Actually, it DOES. It is exactly the *heart* of the matter. Smarmie Doofus Mar 2013 #85

Okay--she's got one kid in public schools, and one in private. So, her policies would msanthrope Mar 2013 #90

I didn't say or was or wasn't useful. I said it was *pertinent*. Smarmie Doofus Mar 2013 #111

Yes, it does. I can't think of a more fitting example of "Do as I say, not as I do" hatrack Mar 2013 #263

If she is advocating where others send their children, then she rhett o rick Mar 2013 #46

She's got one in public, one in private, according to the link. How does that make her a hypocrite? msanthrope Mar 2013 #54

If you dont see it, then I doubt you are willing to listen to an explanation. If you support her rhett o rick Mar 2013 #76

I have no support for Michelle Rhee, but I think bringing her kids into this discussion msanthrope Mar 2013 #79

Bringing America's children into a money making racket which is what she does, is sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #165

Ahem--one child is in public school, one in private. And she doesn't hold public office. msanthrope Mar 2013 #171

She may not hold public office, but she has the ear of a great number who do. kcass1954 Mar 2013 #235

How do you avoid it HelenWheels Mar 2013 #50

She's got one in public, one in private, according to the link. So is it that she hates one, likes msanthrope Mar 2013 #55

This doesn't say *anything* about her kids. mojowork_n Mar 2013 #51

She's got one in public, one in private, according to the link. So what does that say? nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #57

My guess would be the younger daughter isn't old enough for the 5 - 12 private school, yet. mojowork_n Mar 2013 #68

Why do you presume the public school is second rate? And why do you presume Nashville msanthrope Mar 2013 #71

I'm not making that presumption. I'd actually bet the kid's enrolled in a totally OK school. mojowork_n Mar 2013 #73

Well, you are the one who used the term "second-rate" education. Why even bring the kids into this- msanthrope Mar 2013 #88

Comparing apples to apples, I said it wouldn't seem fair to send them to different high schools. mojowork_n Mar 2013 #96

Well, that's ultimately a decision that family gets to make. Your 2nd paragraph underscores a great msanthrope Mar 2013 #107

The kids aren't 'the focus' -- that's your meme -- and *w h a t* question? mojowork_n Mar 2013 #117

Why does Rhee think the public schools are second rate? sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #169

Obviously she doesn't--she has a child in public school in Nashville. Facts are good. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #172

So... You are free to declare why she has one child in public school Orrex Mar 2013 #175

I come by this information from the OP--read the links!! Rhee said one kid was in public school, an msanthrope Mar 2013 #177

Where did you come by your assumption that her child has special needs? Orrex Mar 2013 #182

Orrex, I never asserted or assumed that her child is 'special needs.' My kid is. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #185

Well... Orrex Mar 2013 #189

I didn't realize I was giving that impression and for that I'm sorry. msanthrope Mar 2013 #195

The OP does not link to Rhee saying one of her children is in PS. This is what sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #193

I'm sorry you are having trouble reading Ms. Ravitch's blog. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #201

I'm sorry to see you defending Rhee, a known enemy of the Public Schools. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #204

I was sent to public school while my brother was sent to private school Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #252

Does she, then why won't she say so? sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #183

Hey, aren't you brining the "other" public school kid in to your political argument? Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #81

Dude--it's in the links provided by the OP. I say keep the kids out of it altogether. But be msanthrope Mar 2013 #83

Leave thet kid out of it!!!! Don't discuss that child!!!! Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #84

Take a breath, maake the cupcake calm down! nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #95

It's an Angry Attack Muffin. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #98

I love Angry Attack Muffin!! We should have more bakery product avatars in general!. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #109

Forget the kids. They're not "brought in to it." But what about that husband? mojowork_n Mar 2013 #86

Isn't he a lawyer? nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #126

But you haven't demanded that Rhee keep the rest of our children 'out of it' have you? sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #223

Not only that but making assumptions about the reasons why the child sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #266

It makes no sense to talk of schools without talking about children. bemildred Mar 2013 #78

Well, she's got one in public schools, and one in private. So, if you critique her on that, you've msanthrope Mar 2013 #82

I said it is relevant. She is a public figure, in this area. bemildred Mar 2013 #89

Okay--so what's the relvancy of her having a kid in public, a kid in private schools? Instead of msanthrope Mar 2013 #93

It is relevant because she is not following her own advice. bemildred Mar 2013 #102

I would ususally agree with you; however, emsimon33 Mar 2013 #103

She has one kid in public, one in private. Read the links. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #106

I think the father has some say-so in this. Isn't the private school attendee there to be with him? freshwest Mar 2013 #260

I agree, but considering the author of the OP, I'm not surprised...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #123

Note how the OP didn't state that one kid was in public, one in private? msanthrope Mar 2013 #125

The author of the OP is one of DU's finest. That was a blatant insult, Sid. madfloridian Mar 2013 #241

"one of DU's finest"... SidDithers Mar 2013 #242

Unbelievable. madfloridian Mar 2013 #245

How can they be missed if they're still here?... SidDithers Mar 2013 #250

I believe you got the country wrong. KamaAina Mar 2013 #255

Oh shit. You're right!!... SidDithers Mar 2013 #258

If that is how you feel then Rhee has no business Angry Dragon Mar 2013 #144

Destroying the public school system, stealing funds intended for children sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #160

Yeah well, the NRA thought making a commercial about the Obama girls schpooling was appropriate, so msanthrope Mar 2013 #168

So you're a Rhee supporter then? sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #174

I've already answered that on this thread. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #181

What have you answered? That the Far Right hates Diane Ravitch? sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #184

Oh, lordy--it would help if you read the thread. And I do not answer your questions. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #186

Strawman. Nobody posted anything in support of Rhee. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #216

Who is 'outing the children of political opponents'? sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #222

Not in the slightest. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #225

All she had to do was say 'my children are in private and/or public school. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #231

I don't think it's a deflection. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #232

She wasn't asked to name schools. So it is a strawman to pretend that she sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #233

I don't construct strawmen, so careful where you wave that insinuation around. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #236

Neither do I, but that didn't stop you from accusing me of doing so. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #267

Oh please. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #268

No one brought children sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #179

disgusting or not... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #254

Public schools are not free Alcibiades Mar 2013 #261

Very true. nt awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #271

Funny thing...in Hawaii public school teachers tend to send their kids to private school, dkf Mar 2013 #2

yeah, cause they're all getting so rich on those big union salaries!!! wheee!!!!!!!! HiPointDem Mar 2013 #3

It's not true, especially when the entire state is a school district. duffyduff Mar 2013 #155

Here's how think tanks like Heartland get those seemingly high results: They include administration HiPointDem Mar 2013 #220

Huh? trumad Mar 2013 #4

According to this 45% of public school teachers manage to do it... dkf Mar 2013 #5

so your 'source' is a 1995 article from the conservative "Heartland Institute" propaganda tank, HiPointDem Mar 2013 #7

My sister works in the schools and she confirms that it is pretty noticeable. dkf Mar 2013 #16

So your sister is the new source? trumad Mar 2013 #19

Sometimes it's pretty obvious too. dkf Mar 2013 #29

Well I have an Anglo influence in my family trumad Mar 2013 #44

But you don't tell other posters the entire state is a school district duffyduff Mar 2013 #150

I have never met a public school teacher who sent their kids to private schools. duffyduff Mar 2013 #145

hmm...I know plenty. onpatrol98 Mar 2013 #276

oh, well, if your sister says so....say no more. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #22

When the Superintendent and the director of the BOE both send their kids to Iolani... dkf Mar 2013 #31

Why am I not surprised? duffyduff Mar 2013 #143

Wow--- trumad Mar 2013 #10

Another b.s. talking point. duffyduff Mar 2013 #139

According to that, nearly one-third of everyone on O'ahu manages to do it. KamaAina Mar 2013 #211

The way they collect those bogus statistics is by including administrators in the tally. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #248

Actually, dkf's claim makes sense for a number of reasons. Divernan Mar 2013 #41

It makes no sense... trumad Mar 2013 #45

They can and they do - financial aid and personal sacrifice. Divernan Mar 2013 #47

They can and they do? trumad Mar 2013 #97

DC (28%);Baltimore(35%);Phillie(44%);Chicago(41%)teachers w/kids in private schools Divernan Mar 2013 #113

Washington Times is NOT a reliable source and inner city school districts aren't representative duffyduff Mar 2013 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Mar 2013 #161

The Washington Times is an unreliable source for just about anything. They were sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #200

The Wash.Times study was in 2004, and the teachers' union has not refuted it. Divernan Mar 2013 #215

How much do public schools in Hawaii cost? hughee99 Mar 2013 #64

You make a good point. Divernan Mar 2013 #91

Both her kids went to the public HS in Austin. n/t alp227 Mar 2013 #138

I didn't know that... hughee99 Mar 2013 #147

I'm a public school teacher. My kids go to private school. nessa Mar 2013 #114

Show me the stats? trumad Mar 2013 #129

I ALL READY SHOWED YOU THE STATS 30 MINUTES AGO! IN THIS VERY THREAD! Divernan Mar 2013 #137

I don't know of ANY public school teachers I ever worked with duffyduff Mar 2013 #141

To quote another poster, show us the stats. Divernan Mar 2013 #151

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Mar 2013 #164

Hawai'i, particularly O'ahu, is a special case KamaAina Mar 2013 #257

Baloney. It's a pack of lies, just like dkf's garbage about Social Security. n/t duffyduff Mar 2013 #140

The focus should be on IMPROVING public schools Divernan Mar 2013 #127

Actually I think teachers do go on strike timdog44 Mar 2013 #187

Thanks for a courteous and thoughtful response. Divernan Mar 2013 #203

Yeah, teachers unions don't give a fig about class size, do they? lolly Mar 2013 #192

Where have you been? gollygee Mar 2013 #198

It's frustrating that you distorted what I wrote. Divernan Mar 2013 #212

NAEP reteachinwi Mar 2013 #262

Thanks for posting those findings. Divernan Mar 2013 #265

This assertion is unsubstantiated. Can you cite evidence? reteachinwi Mar 2013 #253

Keep digging, dkf. duffyduff Mar 2013 #154

It makes sense that they'd do it jmowreader Mar 2013 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Mar 2013 #162

hOME SK00LED blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #6

Huffman got admitted to law school with only a teaching degree as preparation Kolesar Mar 2013 #8

he didn't have a teaching degree. he had an english lit degree. but from swathmore. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #9

My old boss majored in English lit and minored in sarcasm Kolesar Mar 2013 #13

It's common for people to go to law school after graduating from college enough Mar 2013 #15

My brother could not get admitted with a criminal justice degree Kolesar Mar 2013 #17

I went to law school with a BA in History and Languages, a teaching msanthrope Mar 2013 #24

A college degree with a great GPA, and great LSAT scores, DevonRex Mar 2013 #214

You know those General Education requirements that everyone hates and calls useless. JVS Mar 2013 #249

Disgusting, bringing a person's minor children into a political fight. Absolutely revolting. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #11

Not revolting. Relevant alarimer Mar 2013 #14

are the obama's hypocrites? ProdigalJunkMail Mar 2013 #20

My daughter goes to a religious school that accommodates her disability...the msanthrope Mar 2013 #25

I think it's disgusting when a family's only "option" is to have to pay money to go to a religious Brickbat Mar 2013 #28

Having worked in said district, I can tell you I wasn't surprised when my msanthrope Mar 2013 #33

then bitch at the OP... ProdigalJunkMail Mar 2013 #38

I note that not a single poster has addressed the fact that one kid is in public school, one in msanthrope Mar 2013 #63

I think it's disgusting when someone like Rhee interferes with the decisions sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #197

I do not answer your questions anymore, Sabrina, but it is enjoyable to watch you try to pose them. msanthrope Mar 2013 #205

Actually you do answer my questions. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #209

You must've been missing laundry_queen Mar 2013 #26

i understand that ProdigalJunkMail Mar 2013 #35

Is water wet? roody Mar 2013 #42

You have no idea why those children are at that school. None. People msanthrope Mar 2013 #23

Yes, it does. mojowork_n Mar 2013 #52

Did you miss the point where one child is in public schools, and one in private? I note that no one msanthrope Mar 2013 #59

It also doesn't fit your criticism of the post. mojowork_n Mar 2013 #72

You think there aren't private schools in Nashville that teach 4th grade and below? My critique is msanthrope Mar 2013 #77

Oh, come on already. Are you paid by the word? Done wasting time w/you. mojowork_n Mar 2013 #100

what difference does that make ? olddots Mar 2013 #159

I don't see this as, "bringing the children into it." The line of criticism here is entirely about Dark n Stormy Knight Mar 2013 #230

Agreed. Totally relevant. laundry_queen Mar 2013 #27

One kid's in private, one in public. How is that relevant? nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #74

Are you unable to understand the first 4 words of that sentence? (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #130

But then not all kids can go to private school treestar Mar 2013 #75

False analogy lolly Mar 2013 #194

Private schools are going to be better than public schools treestar Mar 2013 #240

Baloney Orrex Mar 2013 #30

Agree mtasselin Mar 2013 #32

She's divorced. Are you sure she even makes that decision? Further, you have msanthrope Mar 2013 #36

Pointing out hypocrisy is a democratic virtue Orrex Mar 2013 #39

How is she hypocritical? Once child is in public schools, one in private. You have no idea what msanthrope Mar 2013 #53

She is harming millions of children. Orrex Mar 2013 #62

Well, don't facts bring an interesting change to your argument? Now you aren't concerned about msanthrope Mar 2013 #67

Uh... What? Orrex Mar 2013 #80

She's got a kid in public school. So that kid isn't 'protected.' And you have no idea why one msanthrope Mar 2013 #104

It's an elite college prep school Orrex Mar 2013 #110

How is that relevant? n/t kurtzapril4 Mar 2013 #243

+1 Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #69

Nailed it, orrex. Thanks. n/t truth2power Mar 2013 #43

What did he nail? He forgot that one kid is in private school, one in public. It kinda blows his msanthrope Mar 2013 #61

I know that you'd like to think that Orrex Mar 2013 #99

Orrex, my special needs child is in private school because her public school district cannot msanthrope Mar 2013 #112

You are assuming that her child has special needs. Why? Orrex Mar 2013 #118

I find your suggestion disgusting---and let me tell you why. Her child's private needs, regardless msanthrope Mar 2013 #121

You are free to advocate for her Orrex Mar 2013 #122

I don't have to offer any refutation to the idea that a child must have their privacy violated msanthrope Mar 2013 #148

Nice try Orrex Mar 2013 #156

If you can't 'win' a debate without involving people's minor children, you've lost. If this is what msanthrope Mar 2013 #163

I'm increasingly convinced that you aren't reading what people are posting Orrex Mar 2013 #167

Ms. Ravitch chose to reveal the name of the school where one child goes. msanthrope Mar 2013 #176

The school's name and the name of Rhee's elder daughter are available online Orrex Mar 2013 #180

There was no debate here. There was one person providing facts and another sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #207

If the special needs thing is true, it's probably the other way around KamaAina Mar 2013 #210

I don't get this, in NY all special education is paid for/provided by public funding Progressive dog Mar 2013 #119

I'm in PA. But NY state parents will tell you the same thing--you can't make teachers accomodate msanthrope Mar 2013 #124

I am in NY and a teacher in private school and have worked with many sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #213

This: truth2power Mar 2013 #146

She has one kid in public, one in private. So she talks half the talk and msanthrope Mar 2013 #157

Her kids ARE part of her policy, IMO. YMMV, as I see it does. n/t truth2power Mar 2013 #246

Double baloney HelenWheels Mar 2013 #49

She's got one in public, one in private, according to the link. So how is she hypocritical? nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #58

Not entirely sure I agree. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #218

-1 JVS Mar 2013 #272

i knew she ws a scammer way back when she was here in DC RedstDem Mar 2013 #18

K&R. Brickbat Mar 2013 #21

Thank you. The woman's a phony: The 1% making the rules for the 99%! mountain grammy Mar 2013 #37

On a similar note, my parents wanted me to attend a private school that required a 30+ minute no_hypocrisy Mar 2013 #40

Where do Michelle Rhee's children go to school? Glad you asked.... MyTwoSense Mar 2013 #48

The OP makes it sound like both attend Harpeth, And posters here should ask themselves why. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #70

How old are Rhee's children? Orrex Mar 2013 #105

Because Nashville has no private schools that teach the 4th and below? nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #116

K&R Arctic Dave Mar 2013 #56

K&R n/t Greybnk48 Mar 2013 #65

I can see some wriggle room here treestar Mar 2013 #66

The promotional literature on Harpeth contradicts much of what she wants in public schools lolly Mar 2013 #196

Then that's the argument treestar Mar 2013 #238

Con artist Blecht Mar 2013 #87

Looks like you touched a soft spot. Smarmie Doofus Mar 2013 #92

Excellent point... Why isn't this Education reformer fighting for smaller class sized? midnight Mar 2013 #94

You don't have to support Michelle Rhee to say that I would also send my kids to this or one like Pisces Mar 2013 #101

No one is attacking her children jeff47 Mar 2013 #131

^^This Orrex Mar 2013 #132

I don't agree with this argument. Her reforms may be a beginning. But I don't think she or Pisces Mar 2013 #133

You'd have a point, if that's how she described her reforms jeff47 Mar 2013 #135

^^ THIS!!! ^^ is spot on. n/t SomeGuyInEagan Mar 2013 #149

^^^^^^^^^^^^DOUBLE THIS!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ lolly Mar 2013 #199

Her reforms are based on fraud. midnight Mar 2013 #178

No one is attacking her for her that. What she is being criticized for is that sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #217

Recommend jsr Mar 2013 #108

Rahm Emmuel pulling the same shit in Chicago w/his kids in elite private school. Divernan Mar 2013 #115

That's not correct. Duncan and Obama BOTH sent their children there. duffyduff Mar 2013 #142

Do you ever provide a link? Divernan Mar 2013 #219

arne duncan went to the u of chicago lab school. he sends his kids to virginia public schools, but HiPointDem Mar 2013 #226

Holy crap. blackspade Mar 2013 #120

In my opinion, it's just as much about connections as it is education... KansDem Mar 2013 #128

Most definitely. It's really about *CLASS*. Smarmie Doofus Mar 2013 #134

That is the point, but the usual suspects want to claim all of these public school teachers, duffyduff Mar 2013 #153

We have a winner! DonCoquixote Mar 2013 #173

The Blue Jersey covers any sin. n/t Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #136

This kis NOT about her children for crying out loud DonCoquixote Mar 2013 #166

Why are you attacking her children? Orrex Mar 2013 #170

I think it's relevant because she's intentionally misrepresenting herself gollygee Mar 2013 #188

The best schools the nation has to offer. Dawson Leery Mar 2013 #190

funny how that works out eh ? iamthebandfanman Mar 2013 #191

You forgot the last step-- lolly Mar 2013 #202

Thanks for this... Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #206

Can we get some vouchers up in this shit? n/t moondust Mar 2013 #208

My turn to hijack this thread. hay rick Mar 2013 #221

oops. my excuse is, i didn't attend an ivy! just a dumb prole! HiPointDem Mar 2013 #224

I think we should spend hundreds of posts complaining that the OP is too long. jeff47 Mar 2013 #228

Paid for with our swindled tax dollars. n/t Orsino Mar 2013 #227

K&R Teamster Jeff Mar 2013 #229

K&R SunSeeker Mar 2013 #234

Performance-based incentives for teachers, and increased options for parents michigandem58 Mar 2013 #237

Reform is becoming fairly mainstream in the Democratic party"... YoungDemCA Mar 2013 #244

Even after the concerted effort of team blue to derail this, you're top of the greatest page! Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #239

Is she allowed to have children? LiberalFighter Mar 2013 #247

Proud to be Rec 99. Prouder still to be a person who despises Rhee. Stinky The Clown Mar 2013 #251

Like Chris Christie in New Jersey tilsammans Mar 2013 #256

I rec'd earlier, glad to give this a kick. Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #259

Damaging the country can be Turbineguy Mar 2013 #264

"The comfort of the rich depends on an abundance of the poor." Voltaire Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #269

Thousands of miles from here, which is odd considering she lives here and is married to the mayor. LeftyMom Mar 2013 #273

I was wondering about that too, but since some of the articles made it sound like she herself HiPointDem Mar 2013 #274

This message was self-deleted by its author proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #275

hubby 2? the perv? wowser. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #277

Well now that I Google it, I don't find anything. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #278