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OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)

164. Wow. Your post is so full of false assumptions. But no matter what anyone tries to tell you....

Mon Mar 11, 2013, 07:03 PM

Mar 2013

...you have all of the answers on this, and all of the other Obama hating threads you've started on this board.

I don't know what world you live in, but the real world is not all black-and-white....it's a million shades of gray. In short, it's complicated beyond all hope of rational understanding.

And yes, I have a great deal of sympathy for ALL of the dead and wounded from the two illegitimate wars the Neocons got us into. But unlike you, I haven't lost sight of the fact that we are still fighting a global conflict against a decentralized, highly-motivated enemy who hates our very existence, and for very good historical reasons extending back to the late 1940s.

I have also not lost sight of the fact that when a US citizen plans and/or takes part in terrorist actions against US personnel, he or she loses all rights to due process. Period.

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Why was Anwar al-Awlaki executed by drone, without due process? [View all] MadHound Mar 2013 OP

A citizen does not have a right to take up arms, join our enemies & make war against the US govt. baldguy Mar 2013 #1

He did not take up arms, nor did he make war against the US. MadHound Mar 2013 #2

He didn't kill any Americans, but he certainly wanted to. And he praised those who did. baldguy Mar 2013 #6

There are lots of people in this world who want to kill Americans, and praise those who do so, MadHound Mar 2013 #11

And here we can question, monitor, even infiltrate those organizations. randome Mar 2013 #14

Well gee, we managed to do just that to get bin-Laden. MadHound Mar 2013 #16

I am not in charge of the military. randome Mar 2013 #19

Well that's a lame answer, MadHound Mar 2013 #20

Not at all what I meant. randome Mar 2013 #24

So killing American citizens without due process doesn't rise to the level of grievous activities? MadHound Mar 2013 #28

You KNOW the response to this. randome Mar 2013 #31

But that's the point, MadHound Mar 2013 #36

I'm sorry BO 08 Mar 2013 #40

So you do believe treestar Mar 2013 #129

hundreds? BO 08 Mar 2013 #35

LOL! MadHound Mar 2013 #39

You are forgetting the precedent Rigby5 Mar 2013 #190

Gen. Westmoreland salutes you. WinkyDink Mar 2013 #127

He would not like my counter salute. randome Mar 2013 #132

That's not the policy, has never been the policy, and there are no plans for that being the policy baldguy Mar 2013 #25

Well, judging by how the drone program is being carried out, that is indeed the policy. MadHound Mar 2013 #32

How many Americans have been killed by armed drones on American soil? Zero. baldguy Mar 2013 #66

Actually three US citizens have been killed by US drone strikes, at least that we know about. MadHound Mar 2013 #78

You are lying again. baldguy Mar 2013 #101

I used the same quote you posted, MadHound Mar 2013 #144

The reality of the situation is that you're trying to pin an imaginary policy onto the President baldguy Mar 2013 #153

You're the one misquoting Holder's letter... ljm2002 Mar 2013 #195

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for ANYONE, US citizen or not, who engages in.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #103

So, leaving al-Awlaki out of it altogether, what about his son Abdulrahman al-Awlaki? MadHound Mar 2013 #146

Wow. Your post is so full of false assumptions. But no matter what anyone tries to tell you.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #164

Bush killed more americans than 911 did. Based on a bunch of fucking lies. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #172

Remember the parameters of the drone program: baldguy Mar 2013 #176

self-serving garbage to rationalize crimes every bit as awful as anything done by our official HiPointDem Mar 2013 #177

Using military force for law enforcement operations is illegal. baldguy Mar 2013 #180

so is bombing other countries and assassinating their citizens. fuck this pretense of 'legality' HiPointDem Mar 2013 #181

Why don't you try reading the thread before spouting off? baldguy Mar 2013 #182

"Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist HiPointDem Mar 2013 #184

I think many of us don't 'support' it, per se. randome Mar 2013 #183

Eric Holder altered those parameters... ljm2002 Mar 2013 #196

but he certainly wanted to- we dont execute people for their wants leftyohiolib Mar 2013 #13

Ever visit facebook or Free Republic? whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #91

You're using the same "reasoning" the OP is. And it's nothing but lying propaganda against Obama. baldguy Mar 2013 #102

Riiight... whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #119

Bush killed more americans than this guy could dream of. Based on a fucking lie. Drone *him*. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #171

"...but he certainly wanted to." You made madhound's case right there. n/t truth2power Mar 2013 #199

"fire in a crowded theater" hfojvt Mar 2013 #17

Really? MadHound Mar 2013 #18

that might be news to these guys hfojvt Mar 2013 #73

He gave up his citizenship when he joined Al Quaeda LastDemocratInSC Mar 2013 #72

And yet he's still the hero poster boy of the anti-Obama crowd. baldguy Mar 2013 #75

Thanks for showing your agenda finally in this thread. Rex Mar 2013 #81

Run along. You'll miss the next Alex Jones Show. baldguy Mar 2013 #105

+1 uponit7771 Mar 2013 #110

Key words you are leaving out, "Potentially Expatriating Acts." MadHound Mar 2013 #85

he 'joined' al qaeda? is there an official sign-up sheet with a secret handshake? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #173

Wrong, any person has that right, and it is government that has no rights. Rigby5 Mar 2013 #188

This was settled in 1865. A US citizen taking up arms against the US govt is committing treason. baldguy Mar 2013 #192

And if he was holed up in a building here in America... randome Mar 2013 #3

Accidently, that is a key word in your hypothetical scenario, MadHound Mar 2013 #4

I dunno, maybe don't hang out in a country we're bombing the shit out of NightWatcher Mar 2013 #5

So why are we launching drone strikes against Yemeni, and US, citizens? MadHound Mar 2013 #7

Abdulrahman al-Aulaqi made the mistake of having dinner with Ibrahim al-Banna hack89 Mar 2013 #100

Umm, no, that is not true. MadHound Mar 2013 #143

No excuses - it was an unfortunate accident hack89 Mar 2013 #145

No, it wasn't an "unfortunate accident". MadHound Mar 2013 #148

Ahhhh yes... 99Forever Mar 2013 #9

i'll bet you'd show some outrage if it was a drone belonging to another government. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #174

Bush needs to be arrested for war crimes for okaying this... RetroLounge Mar 2013 #8

His son was executed by drone two weeks later for even less discernable reasons. Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #10

Because he occupied the expanded battlefield, Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #12

The AUMF essentially makes the whole world a battlefield which means everybody is a potential target MadHound Mar 2013 #15

and for this very reason theaocp Mar 2013 #22

Broad sweeping authority does not make it unconstitutional... Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #27

Step back a minute, MadHound Mar 2013 #80

An Amicus Brief is not a court decision. So your comment about Constitutionality is invalid. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #113

You aren't quoting any court. onenote Mar 2013 #120

A beautiful nugget of accurate information... Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #121

It actually reaches beyond the constitution, we are talking absolute tyranny here. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #185

Horsefeathers. n/t DeSwiss Mar 2013 #99

To make the President look like a tough dude. (nt) limpyhobbler Mar 2013 #21

An exercise in PR pretending we didn't lose the war on "terra". Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #23

invisible unaccountable dumbass idiots obsessed with power librechik Mar 2013 #26

perhaps the President/cia didn't share all of their information with you???? spanone Mar 2013 #29

Ah, so we should wait until all the information is in before doing anything, eh? MadHound Mar 2013 #34

+1 DCBob Mar 2013 #108

Have we learned nothing from VietNam and "The Pentagon Papers"? WinkyDink Mar 2013 #130

Two points Melike Death from Drones cheering squad NEVER address. 99Forever Mar 2013 #30

Despite the denigrating name you have assigned, jazzimov Mar 2013 #77

I hope that there is more to the story. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #33

You mean outside of the treasonous videos he made? cliffordu Mar 2013 #37

He didn't renounce his citizenship. MadHound Mar 2013 #43

IF you cannot see the difference between Fonda and her photo op cliffordu Mar 2013 #46

So again, the question, MadHound Mar 2013 #49

He was neither convicted nor even charged with treason. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #186

HE bragged about his treason. cliffordu Mar 2013 #187

Seems it would be easy to get the indictment then, right? TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #198

If there were any way to get him, sure. cliffordu Mar 2013 #202

Hint, he is an Arab roxy1234 Mar 2013 #38

Funny thing is, both men were born in the US. MadHound Mar 2013 #45

Well At Least Yours Got Some Responses... WillyT Mar 2013 #41

Oh, I have my "fans", MadHound Mar 2013 #48

americans have unlimited rights to butcher anyone at any time for any reason. its in the 10 msongs Mar 2013 #42

You wanna know the real reason? leveymg Mar 2013 #44

my good man BO 08 Mar 2013 #51

I called it a policy change. You used the "C" word. leveymg Mar 2013 #58

You said there must be some reason BO 08 Mar 2013 #64

Semantical difference? When agencies carry out conspiracies they're called programs and policies. leveymg Mar 2013 #70

Sorry what are we talking about? BO 08 Mar 2013 #71

You interjected an assumption into the narrative that doesn't necessarily follow the rest. leveymg Mar 2013 #74

Sadly roxy1234 Mar 2013 #55

The timing was very significant. On Dec. 24, the day before the Underwear Bomber was put on that leveymg Mar 2013 #61

Because ProSense Mar 2013 #47

Actually it isn't a law, it hasn't been passed by Congress, MadHound Mar 2013 #50

The same UN that brought up war crime charges BO 08 Mar 2013 #52

Yes, ProSense Mar 2013 #54

Full quote, MadHound Mar 2013 #60

Al-Awlaki was an American citizen on paper only. Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #53

No, he was actually born here, MadHound Mar 2013 #59

The 1 attack he is accused of "coordinating" resulted in no casualties except the bomber's scorched leveymg Mar 2013 #67

He appears to have been a double-agent who worked both sides. We don't know what he believed he leveymg Mar 2013 #63

Yes, good riddance indeed. :-/ n/t DeSwiss Mar 2013 #123

Because he was a bad man... SomethingFishy Mar 2013 #56

Why was Osama bin Laden executed without trial? Cleita Mar 2013 #57

"The use of poisons of chemical and biological weapons against population centers is allowed" bhikkhu Mar 2013 #62

"By any means necessary." Malcolm X MadHound Mar 2013 #82

False equivalences are easy when its not your decision, or your responsibility bhikkhu Mar 2013 #89

You are making the mistake that many people make, MadHound Mar 2013 #94

He took up arms against the US in a time of war bhikkhu Mar 2013 #115

It's similar to opposition to the death penalty. randome Mar 2013 #117

He took up arms? Really? Show me when and where. MadHound Mar 2013 #150

I can tell you for certain this is just another Obama-Hater thread. nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #65

+1000 baldguy Mar 2013 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author demosincebirth Mar 2013 #76

Nope, it's about the issue of drones, not the man who is launching them, MadHound Mar 2013 #84

Sorry, not buying the idea that you don't have a vendetta against the President. nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #97

Why should I have a vendetta against the President? MadHound Mar 2013 #142

that is a terrible response Enrique Mar 2013 #134

You are also welcome to your opinion, however misguided it may be... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #138

what's insulting? Enrique Mar 2013 #156

Please refer me to the post where I engaged in "flippant namecalling".... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #159

No...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #69

You conveniently forget Mr. Awlaki's involvement in the BA bomb plot, the Cargo Bomb plot, Times msanthrope Mar 2013 #79

Actually, you are glossing over a lot there, MadHound Mar 2013 #86

Direct contact and conspiracy with Rajib Karim on the BA Passenger Bomb Plot-- msanthrope Mar 2013 #87

LOL, let me repeat myself, MadHound Mar 2013 #93

Handwringing over a terrorist who was directly plotting to kill Americans. He was lawfully killed msanthrope Mar 2013 #95

But, but, but don't you understand? If we can kill a US citizen/terrorist overseas,..... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #98

Anyone who poses a threat to the safety of others and cannot be arrested - see Tennesee v Garner. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #147

No, it wasn't under the authority of Congress, MadHound Mar 2013 #141

MadHound--the AUMF of 9/18/2001 was passed by Congress, invoking the WPA, and directing msanthrope Mar 2013 #149

AUMF was declared unconstituional by the US District Court, Southern District of New York MadHound Mar 2013 #151

Wrong law, MadHound. Hedges vs. Obama involved the NDAA of 2012. And it was stayed. msanthrope Mar 2013 #152

On January 25, 2010, al-Awlaki's name had already been published as being on the kill list. He must leveymg Mar 2013 #116

Didn't you get the memo? '9/11 changed everything'. Rex Mar 2013 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author moondust Mar 2013 #88

"Expert Advisor" moondust Mar 2013 #90

if we could have bombed Tokyo Rose JCMach1 Mar 2013 #92

He was an American traitor who advocated killing his own people. Fuck him. BlueStater Mar 2013 #96

+1000. nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #104

you could say that about a lot of people Enrique Mar 2013 #135

For the-President-can-do-no-wrong crowd: AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #106

So, Obama is Nixon now? Killing terrorists is the same as spying on political opponents? baldguy Mar 2013 #111

So the best that you have are straw-men and false equivalencies? AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #112

By posting the video you're comparing Obama to Nixon. That's false equivalency - BY DEFINITION. baldguy Mar 2013 #114

The words in the video speak for themselves. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #126

Nixons stance doesn't apply to this situation. And YOU brought him into this thread, not me. baldguy Mar 2013 #133

You are fabricating what was posted at #106. Anyone can read it for themselves and see that AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #136

I'm thinking you haven't watched the video you've posted. baldguy Mar 2013 #137

The words in the video at #106 speak for themselves and anyone can verify that for themselves. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #139

... because ... JoePhilly Mar 2013 #107

Now this is a real example of a slippery slope... Taverner Mar 2013 #109

Why? DeSwiss Mar 2013 #118

You ignore the fact baldguy Mar 2013 #122

this is why... DCBob Mar 2013 #124

But of course... 99Forever Mar 2013 #128

That only applies to people who are willing to be treestar Mar 2013 #131

not my tale.. got it from the article. DCBob Mar 2013 #140

He was not executed treestar Mar 2013 #125

It's hard to be tried when you're not actually formally accused of anything. BlueCheese Mar 2013 #154

It's hard to formally accuse someone who will not cooperate with legal processes treestar Mar 2013 #161

You don't need to capture someone in order to indict him. BlueCheese Mar 2013 #162

You do if you are going to try him. treestar Mar 2013 #165

My point is that it's odd to ask someone to turn himself in if he hasn't been indicted. BlueCheese Mar 2013 #166

If we have to make indictments against every terrorist abroad treestar Mar 2013 #189

Your argument for killing someone is that it might be "awkard" to indict them? Are you joking? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #194

You are very wrong to characterize my argument that way treestar Mar 2013 #201

So because he wouldn't turn himself in, we have a right to murder him? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #163

If they are a danger to others treestar Mar 2013 #191

You don't earn due process. It is a right. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #193

Virtually anyone charged with a crime participates in those charges about 0% TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #197

I don't think they did an indictment treestar Mar 2013 #200

He was an Enemy of the State� BlueCheese Mar 2013 #155

way too subtle a parody Enrique Mar 2013 #157

Anwar al-Awlaki was a big boy who knew what he was getting into arely staircase Mar 2013 #158

The same arguments used to justify torture are used to justify drone murders. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #160

Sorry, not even close... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #168

There is legal precedent for "inhanced interrogation techniques." Doesn't make it right. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #169

"Legal precedent" for torture? Because Bush Admin lawyers said it was okay to do so?.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #178

What I'm saying is that legality does not necessarily dictate ethics. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #179

He was a shitbag terrorist, that's why. sagat Mar 2013 #167

How do you know he was a "shitbag terrorist?" Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #170

george w bush is a shitbag terrorist who killed more americans than 911, based on a pack of lies. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #175