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treestar

(82,383 posts)

16. The gestures are the most minor part of it

Reply to whatchamacallit (Original post)

Sat Mar 16, 2013, 02:53 PM

Mar 2013

We keep reducing the concept to these gestures.

The idea was expressed in a book by Ashley Montagu, the Natural Superiority of Women. It went on about how women are kinder and gentler than men. More moral. Just better people. And that's why they should stay home and take care of and raise the children. And let men protect them. That whole idea.

The men opening doors for women, taking off their hats, not swearing in the presence of ladies, walking on the outside of the sidewalk, helping ladies into vehicles (fair enough with the outfits they had to wear in those days) were just little day to day things to help smooth over the lack of choice and freedom and make it bearable.

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Highlight:

Do women have agency in sustaining 'benevolent sexism' if they are accepting and appreciative [View all] whatchamacallit Mar 2013 OP

"How do you view them?" NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #1

Really? Helen Reddy Mar 2013 #2

Ya know what? RobertEarl Mar 2013 #3

Speak for yourself pintobean Mar 2013 #14

Yep. RobertEarl Mar 2013 #20

Ok... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #47

Act like a man? RobertEarl Mar 2013 #74

Subtlety is lost on you apparently... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #108

War is the basis for all our problems RobertEarl Mar 2013 #110

As a realist... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #134

Heh. zappaman Mar 2013 #58

Oh, yeah pintobean Mar 2013 #61

Huh? Niceties and manners have nothing to do with equal pay, respect for another's Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #4

The problem is that in many cases they do MattBaggins Mar 2013 #24

You and I will disagree on that, then. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #34

Your societal norms are in fact sexist MattBaggins Mar 2013 #44

Very well said. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #42

Dainty flower, maybe, but more like incapable and delegated to the role of childbearer Iris Mar 2013 #130

If she expects special treatment, she is not "modern" bettyellen Mar 2013 #5

There is a physical difference between male and female, though. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #38

But shouldn't a young, strong athletic woman help a small elderly or weak or disabled man? MillennialDem Mar 2013 #43

Absolutely. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #45

Of course! I'm a middle aged woman, and I have assisted elderly people, or Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #48

My point is more with the belly up concept MillennialDem Mar 2013 #51

I'd like to think I would, too. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #53

Fair enough n/t MillennialDem Mar 2013 #57

It's if it's expected where you go off track.... bettyellen Mar 2013 #125

I think... Quantess Mar 2013 #6

Or just slam it. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #11

Did you miss the part where... I'm a sarcastic woman? Quantess Mar 2013 #22

Yes, I was replying with sarcasm too. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #23

I caught it. I was going to suggest maybe handing out a questionnaire instead Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #49

Do you actually refuse to listen to the issue or are you just being obtuse? MattBaggins Mar 2013 #25

Just being obtuse (and sarcastic), Matt. Thanks for asking. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #26

Annoyed at the folks intentionally being morons when they know better. MattBaggins Mar 2013 #28

OK - you got me. I don't take this whole door opening = sexist thing seriously. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #31

Do you acknowledge that the issue of Benevolent Sexism is not about opening doors MattBaggins Mar 2013 #33

I think it's seriously overstated... NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #37

If you slammed it, that is a personal affront and shows your anger toward women. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #40

My goodness. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #41

Oh...sorry. Guess I needed the smiley face. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #50

That's okay. It's been a wild day here. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author Dash87 Mar 2013 #117

Or just be safe and slam doors in everybody's faces as hard as possible. Dash87 Mar 2013 #118

The temptation to have it both ways is large. dogknob Mar 2013 #7

You nailed it! Quantess Mar 2013 #10

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #12

Okay. That's your issue and you should go deal with it. Quantess Mar 2013 #18

How do you view them? DURHAM D Mar 2013 #8

Good question whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #9

Ever watch the courting rituals of birds? mick063 Mar 2013 #13

I do ponder where the societal and biological lines blur whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #15

Not one of the behaviors described is evolutionary MattBaggins Mar 2013 #27

I agree whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #29

Personally I would look to a Sociologist for that answer MattBaggins Mar 2013 #35

Even now a baby can't just be a baby. Iris Mar 2013 #131

....What? sibelian Mar 2013 #135

The gestures are the most minor part of it treestar Mar 2013 #16

People keep saying it's not about the gestures whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #17

The gestures are a symptom treestar Mar 2013 #19

Out of curiosity whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #21

Ouch. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #39

He's from an older generation, BUT his wife is a doctor. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #46

Careful on those stairs Honeycombe8 whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #52

Aww Honeycombe LittleBlue Mar 2013 #123

Women will have achieved equality treestar Mar 2013 #128

Why do you single him out? treestar Mar 2013 #127

Who did advocate that? whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #129

All of society throughout the Victorian age treestar Mar 2013 #137

Why do you argue like this? whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author MattBaggins Mar 2013 #30

Agree except for the last sentence. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #36

Women can change tires treestar Mar 2013 #126

You're preaching to the choir. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #133

Absolutely yes. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #32

Well *this* woman Aerows Mar 2013 #54

Lol whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #56

Well Aerows Mar 2013 #59

I'm serious whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #63

The shit you can cut out Aerows Mar 2013 #66

How about you don't attribute every chauvinistic post you've read today to me whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #72

Yours is the first one I read Aerows Mar 2013 #75

Being considered for the benefit of an act of consideration chowder66 Mar 2013 #55

ANOTHER thread on this? Apophis Mar 2013 #60

More like Aerows Mar 2013 #64

The only annoying thing here gollygee Mar 2013 #65

Not my intent whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #67

It's exactly your intent Aerows Mar 2013 #69

Simple to prove whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #73

Ummm Aerows Mar 2013 #79

I didn't say or imply that you do speak for all women whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #82

You've already agreed Aerows Mar 2013 #87

Can you read the OP's mind? NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #76

LOL Aerows Mar 2013 #77

Apparently you read it differently than I did. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #86

Bullshit Aerows Mar 2013 #92

Okay then. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #93

Yep, you've had a lot of fun with it Aerows Mar 2013 #94

I can see you're going to be relentless in broad-brushing me whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #96

Hey Aerows Mar 2013 #98

Why are you conflating my statements with those of others? whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #100

If you think whether or not Aerows Mar 2013 #103

At this point I don't even know what we're talking about whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #106

Once you can tell me... NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #97

I agree that juvenile horseshit can be good for the soul Aerows Mar 2013 #99

I love Grumpy Cat. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #101

I'm on board with Grumpy Cat :) Aerows Mar 2013 #104

The concept of benevolent sexism isn't about a specific act gollygee Mar 2013 #70

No, see what they are doing Aerows Mar 2013 #68

Agree 100% there gollygee Mar 2013 #71

So with a straight face whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #78

"Just askin'" Aerows Mar 2013 #80

Ha fuck that whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #81

One can only decide Aerows Mar 2013 #83

That goes for both of us Aerows n/t whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #84

:) Agreed n/t Aerows Mar 2013 #88

Just now? NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #85

Yes, these are just male bonding (herding up) exercises. DURHAM D Mar 2013 #89

For reals? whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #90

Not all men are into basketball. Some don't like basements. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #91

Not necessarily. sibelian Mar 2013 #136

certain posters are absent from this thread snooper2 Mar 2013 #95

certain posters are present in this thread Scout Mar 2013 #121

Well, when a man opens a door for me with that "here ya go little lady" smile, I Zorra Mar 2013 #102

we are damned if we do and damned if we don't Scout Mar 2013 #105

I appreciate that whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #107

well, if it's someone you want a relationship with, discuss it. Scout Mar 2013 #112

And if she indeed prefers to be treated 'old school' whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #114

douchebag? no. sexist, maybe. Scout Mar 2013 #119

I hear ya whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #124

"When it's offered, there is usually some kind of repayment expected." NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #109

depends on one's definition of repayment, doesn't it. Scout Mar 2013 #111

Fair enough... NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #113

that's not what i said. Scout Mar 2013 #115

No, I've never heard that saying. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #116

"there is usually some kind of repayment expected " JI7 Mar 2013 #140

Chivalry is compatible with equality when it works both ways Warpy Mar 2013 #120

Unfortunately, those last three sentences are all too true. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #122

Yep. Warpy is good at cutting through the b.s. and getting straight to the point. n/t Iris Mar 2013 #132

can you give specifics ? JI7 Mar 2013 #139