General Discussion

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

82. False dichotomy

Wed Feb 1, 2012, 02:37 PM

Feb 2012

To warn against stupid pranks is not the same as ignoring injustice. Flag-burning is not the new pledge of allegiance. The change you pretend to want won't occur if the people seeking change are a self-marginalized sliver of a minority. Alienating people harms the overall intent of the movement.

And yes, you do have to be sensitive to people's feelings. People have the right to not to be clones of you or me. Real Democracy is built upon consensus which implies are starting point where people are different from each other. Who in their right mind would seek common ground with the Orthodox Jewish-American Student's Union by inviting them to lunch over bacon cheeseburgers?

Alienate. Disregard. Dismiss. We are the ninety-nine (in a nation of 300 million).

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Why Flag-Burning Bodes Ill for OWS [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 OP

I'm all for burning the flag to make a statement, when appropriate. randome Feb 2012 #1

Flag burning is the message. To its own end. morningfog Feb 2012 #16

"Burn, baby, burn!" randome Feb 2012 #18

One flag was lit and sparked thousands of conversations. morningfog Feb 2012 #25

Thousands of conversations mostly about how wrong Occupy was. TheWraith Feb 2012 #33

Conversations with many sides. morningfog Feb 2012 #41

Good luck with that in the real world. TheWraith Feb 2012 #99

We don't need to be schooled on what freedom of speech means. randome Feb 2012 #35

Hunkering down gets you easily ignored. morningfog Feb 2012 #39

Yes, we can tell them how to protest. randome Feb 2012 #43

Do you go to general assembly meetings? morningfog Feb 2012 #44

No, I don't. randome Feb 2012 #60

If you don't like what they are doing but feel they represent you morningfog Feb 2012 #78

Elected officials have actual legislative capability backed by the power of government Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #91

In that case, they should be of no concern to you. morningfog Feb 2012 #94

Except their dragging down progressive ideals with them. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #96

Don't forget the self aggrandizement and sense of entitlement. TheWraith Feb 2012 #101

Yes, but the people -- we're told -- are too stupid to think for themselves. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #109

That's okay, the remaining 30 million will pull your weight. eom tledford Feb 2012 #112

if you go carrying pictures of chairman mao...... arely staircase Feb 2012 #125

One instance of a burned flag can completely discredit an entire movement. onehandle Feb 2012 #2

Best post so far on the subject... SidDithers Feb 2012 #3

i think a good many on DU are conservative, conventional, status quo supporting folks. xchrom Feb 2012 #4

Actually, there's pretty much nobody like that here. TheWraith Feb 2012 #7

Burning a flag is "burning down the world?" morningfog Feb 2012 #17

I was referring to equating DUers who don't meet the radical purity test with conservatives. TheWraith Feb 2012 #38

You are far, far too Johnson20 Feb 2012 #46

So which one are you? Rex Feb 2012 #134

Assuming you're correct Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #9

Purity and self-righteousness is all that matters nobodyspecial Feb 2012 #10

i think that ows isn't trying to impose anything more radical that what the civil rights movement xchrom Feb 2012 #11

I don't remember Rev. King burning flags Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #13

just asking for = caused a societal gasp -- not unlike the pearl clutching going xchrom Feb 2012 #14

You seem more intent on silly stunts even if it hurts the actual cause Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #24

WTF? Now talk about silly...nt xchrom Feb 2012 #27

Good grief. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #34

as if you had said anything complex...oh yes i get it. nt xchrom Feb 2012 #40

Dismissiveness seems to act as a roundabout concession Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #49

i can't relate to your 'offended' thing -- burning the flag is pretty tried and true xchrom Feb 2012 #65

Didn't work, did it? randome Feb 2012 #69

it worked fine to me. xchrom Feb 2012 #70

Yep, that's my goal. randome Feb 2012 #72

You're speaking from within your own hive. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #76

and you aren't speaking from within your own hive? xchrom Feb 2012 #77

False dichotomy Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #82

Do NOT dishonor the work of King by comparing nobodyspecial Feb 2012 #20

oy xchrom Feb 2012 #21

I think the eye rolling nobodyspecial Feb 2012 #29

Very, very well said. TheWraith Feb 2012 #5

It's also the PERFECT disruption by instigators izquierdista Feb 2012 #6

+1 cbayer Feb 2012 #26

So if flag-burning is being exploited for anti-OWS purposes Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #31

i suggested this in another thread and was accused of being a tinfoil hat wearer. nt arely staircase Feb 2012 #126

The GOP got into a snit about it a couple of years ahead of the run-up to the last election. MADem Feb 2012 #128

Thank you. Well said. MineralMan Feb 2012 #8

One of the things that I've observed Mz Pip Feb 2012 #12

I like the idea of calling the bankers to account. I like the idea of focusing on social justice MADem Feb 2012 #15

+10 MineralMan Feb 2012 #19

+1 Veruca Salt Feb 2012 #32

These are different times. morningfog Feb 2012 #36

I agree Mz Pip Feb 2012 #50

Very well said. HappyMe Feb 2012 #22

Start handing these out. trumad Feb 2012 #23

If you don't have a valid criticism there's no shame in admitting it. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #28

Ah, the pearl-clutching meme. MineralMan Feb 2012 #30

OK I'll write... trumad Feb 2012 #87

You can write as much as you like. MineralMan Feb 2012 #89

It's the broad brushers that I'm going after. trumad Feb 2012 #97

Perfect! SammyWinstonJack Feb 2012 #54

Sit-ins and strikes are inconvenient. Women should forego abortions because they offend people. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #37

Try again. Maybe you can come up with an actual analogy. TheWraith Feb 2012 #42

Your "concern" is noted whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #48

How do you win over a broader segment of society by displays intended to offend that very group? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #53

News Flash whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #59

A 'war' fought in public buildings and parks. randome Feb 2012 #62

Ha, where else? whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #63

No one is saying 'don't protest'. randome Feb 2012 #66

"IMO it's a war" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #64

This is going nowhere whatchamacallit Feb 2012 #71

To be honest... randome Feb 2012 #75

Do you actually want to succeed at something or is this just an exercise in alienating people? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #45

The only ones I'm seeing offended and and referring to "stupid kids" are the alleged allies of OWS. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #51

It is stupid and juvenile. Even if they have gray hair. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #58

Suffragettes went around with hammers breaking rich peoples' windows. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #113

Then don't howl when you're ever on the receiving end Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #115

I've been on the receiving end from the establishment. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #117

Nice post! Puzzledtraveller Feb 2012 #47

Flag burning only bother conservatives, who are hostile to OWS regardless. Romulox Feb 2012 #52

Exactly, on both points. SammyWinstonJack Feb 2012 #56

+2 nt xchrom Feb 2012 #67

There are these people called "moderates" maybe you've heard of them. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #68

"Don't believe me? Look at DU." Union Scribe Feb 2012 #55

+1000000! SammyWinstonJack Feb 2012 #57

And people who are genuinely concerned about progressive ideals Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #61

if so many "want" to burn flags, how come only this 1 incident was reported librechik Feb 2012 #84

This 1 incident, at least as far as my OP goes Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #86

Who Determined It Is Decidedly Bad PR? HangOnKids Feb 2012 #92

Decider? Absolutely not. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #93

Wow Talk About Vapid Generalizations HangOnKids Feb 2012 #102

It just gets weirder Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #104

you seem to be implying a trend or a "want"--can you list more OWS flag burnings for us? librechik Feb 2012 #95

Polls are useless. People only accept the ones that agree with them. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #98

I think middle America doesn't like OWS anyway. Nothing OWS could do or say would change that librechik Feb 2012 #103

I'm sorry, I don't equate middle America with iron-hard RW partisan Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #105

lol--you're good--utter denial is a winning tactic when you have nothing. librechik Feb 2012 #106

Isn't the wholly unfounded "agent provacateur" excuse the denialism you speak of? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #107

I said "You win" Isn't that enough? librechik Feb 2012 #110

Conservatives of all stripes hate the movement, Democratic cons maybe even more so Dragonfli Feb 2012 #121

luv u for this post librechik Feb 2012 #123

That sums it up Harmony Blue Feb 2012 #74

Concern trolls. We've got 'em n/t pa28 Feb 2012 #122

Yeah there is that. Warren Stupidity Feb 2012 #127

lol it will be forgotten in a weeks time joshcryer Feb 2012 #73

"bank on it" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #79

Flag burning Harmony Blue Feb 2012 #80

"Your agenda is well documented for many months on this board. " Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #83

Psst! I think they're on to us. randome Feb 2012 #81

Great OP. Those who don't get it , probably never will. nt sufrommich Feb 2012 #85

Oh we get it... trumad Feb 2012 #88

Apparently that's where the cogent rebuttals are kept too. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #90

I already gave my rebuttal... trumad Feb 2012 #100

Let me guess: you're with the PR and marketing department Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #108

PR and marketing department of OWS? trumad Feb 2012 #114

I see nothing wrong with constructive criticism Mz Pip Feb 2012 #111

because it is a broad brush of the movement. trumad Feb 2012 #118

Is every criticism that it was a bad idea redqueen Feb 2012 #119

Excellent OP! Summer Hathaway Feb 2012 #116

If you were more interested in social justice than gotcha, this thread would be about EFerrari Feb 2012 #120

If flag-burners were interested in social justice Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #131

Flag burning is boring. wildeyed Feb 2012 #124

Raising flag burning beyond its import is a tactic designed to smear. Bonobo Feb 2012 #129

Let me see if I get this straight Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #130

Actually you don't have it and I am not sure you are capable of "getting it". nt Bonobo Feb 2012 #132

It makes it easy for wingnuts Chill Keney Feb 2012 #133

I doubt it. Rex Feb 2012 #135