General Discussion

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)

264. I don't think it started there, seabeyond

Sun Mar 17, 2013, 08:37 AM

Mar 2013

I think it started here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022512182 and continued here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022517432

The definitions included carrying heavy boxes for women, opening doors just for women and other forms of benevolent sexism that "many women appreciate".

That being said - this has turned GD into meta and made DU suck. It would have been better for her to leave benevolent sexism as just what you did - a definition of what it was. Two more threads were not needed to discuss it, right?

And I stand by what I said on the other two threads - I do not give a rat's ass about benevolent sexism right now when there is so much malevolent sexism out there. When we get to the point as a society that all we have left to worry about in gender equality is benevolent sexism, then we've truly made great strides... to me, it comes after sexual abuse and reproductive rights and equal pay for equal jobs.

This whole discussion about benevolent sexism and opening doors is a derailed train wreck and takes away from discussing serious issues (did you know that the judge is handing down his verdict in the Stuebenville case today? That thread sank like a ROCK while everyone was discussing holding doors and how men are hostile to women on DU). It's just another Meta subject now...

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] Orrex Mar 2013 OP

I don't know boston bean Mar 2013 #1

You're drawing a good distinction Orrex Mar 2013 #20

^^^^this. It is obvious and it is not simple courtesy. magical thyme Mar 2013 #21

I've had guys do that for (to) me also and I'm a guy. Pisses me off, too. Gidney N Cloyd Mar 2013 #25

Oh my God I hate that. Drives me crazy. Same thing with cars who refuse to take right of way Recursion Mar 2013 #63

makes sense n/t fishwax Mar 2013 #94

Here we go Kingofalldems Mar 2013 #2

I'm not getting this whole thing. babylonsister Mar 2013 #3

Thank you. Orrex Mar 2013 #7

Phew! babylonsister Mar 2013 #13

Lucky you, me not so! Ninga Mar 2013 #27

I'm on Ignore too. Don't remember posting anything obnoxious or hateful to anyone.. Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #195

My gf loves it.. Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #31

I like manners and courtliness as much as babylonsister Mar 2013 #32

Me, too. Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #36

"And PS, I hold the door open for both sexes when in a position to do so."...... socialist_n_TN Mar 2013 #41

Exactly treestar Mar 2013 #60

Thank you. enlightenment Mar 2013 #69

One of the best anecdotes I ever read, that sums up my own philosophy on the matter: Geoff R. Casavant Mar 2013 #116

Thank you for the story; and btw the response was very apt too! -- n/t mazzarro Mar 2013 #214

I was 8 months pregnant, standing in a bus, & the only one who got up for me was an old lady Hekate Mar 2013 #258

Well, if someone is close enough ahead of me that they just let the door slam in my face. HuckleB Mar 2013 #144

thank you babylonsister Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #204

+1000 nt Mojorabbit Mar 2013 #218

THANKS, b'sis! elleng Mar 2013 #251

I say thank you Generic Other Mar 2013 #4

Wait! How do you know that you aren't being covertly subjugated? Orrex Mar 2013 #12

"your place" pintobean Mar 2013 #18

Who cares? Really, these discussions about benevolent sexism seem so trivial snappyturtle Mar 2013 #5

Another good response Orrex Mar 2013 #8

because from the original thread on this, the same men who exhibit benevolent sexism also exhibit magical thyme Mar 2013 #28

since no one is actually discussing the concept of benevolent sexism, only about damn doors, ya... seabeyond Mar 2013 #56

I'm still trying to figure out what I should do in the case of rotating doors Major Nikon Mar 2013 #92

ya, cause this is such a fuckin honest conversation you men are having Op after OP to diss seabeyond Mar 2013 #95

As opposed to the other way around? Major Nikon Mar 2013 #101

ya. exactly. as opposed to the fuckin' other way around. and do not fuckin tell me to lighten up seabeyond Mar 2013 #102

just because you can't control what people say datasuspect Mar 2013 #210

Actually, Major, rotating doors might be the only answer to this vexing dilemma. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #228

Says the expert on totally fabricated strawman outrage. cleanhippie Mar 2013 #121

link. prove it. or just more lies. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #123

QED cleanhippie Mar 2013 #124

? i saw no links. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #127

The rest of us see them. cleanhippie Mar 2013 #130

still no link. this would be exactly the example of you men manufacturing your outrage seabeyond Mar 2013 #135

Hey, a question for you. I call my 4 yo daughter "baby", "sweetie", and "pumpkin" a lot. cleanhippie Mar 2013 #139

i call my two sons sugarplum and sweetiepie and they are 18 and 16. is that wrong? seabeyond Mar 2013 #143

So it's okay then? cleanhippie Mar 2013 #148

and thank you once again for trying to create something that isnt there. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #152

Oh, it's there. cleanhippie Mar 2013 #154

everywhere!!! just cant link to it. gotcha. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #168

Do you really want links to all 84,158 of your posts? cleanhippie Mar 2013 #180

wow datasuspect Mar 2013 #212

you really think people who complain about sexism are complaining about this ? JI7 Mar 2013 #256

uh, links to meta will no longer work. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #239

Bwahahahaha! Perfect! cleanhippie Mar 2013 #253

Obviously people are much more interested in this topic treestar Mar 2013 #61

Well I asked the question, "Who cares"? Thanks for your answer. snappyturtle Mar 2013 #70

I'm an empath. nt Zorra Mar 2013 #6

Another one of these? Oiy. Whisp Mar 2013 #9

Love it! Orrex Mar 2013 #15

Hey~ babylonsister Mar 2013 #17

Shining their balls. Bowling balls. Whisp Mar 2013 #22

Hahaha! I babylonsister Mar 2013 #26

The correct line would be, "Obviously I'm not a golfer" tridim Mar 2013 #64

The Dude abides Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #252

Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women! Whisp Mar 2013 #254

Slow news day. n/t tavernier Mar 2013 #10

There's a range.. Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #11

@#$%!! I should have scrolled down before posting. This is perfect! Gidney N Cloyd Mar 2013 #29

I like that BainsBane Mar 2013 #209

You don't. Which is why I have never spent any time fretting over it. cali Mar 2013 #14

Another fine answer! Orrex Mar 2013 #16

It isn't about individual acts of opening the door gollygee Mar 2013 #19

It risks identifying an act of gender-neutral courtesy with sexism Orrex Mar 2013 #30

Thanks for the benevolent and patronizing explaining MattBaggins Mar 2013 #74

Oh dear... sibelian Mar 2013 #76

Not at all MattBaggins Mar 2013 #83

Perhaps you could make me a list of questions that I'm allowed to answer? Orrex Mar 2013 #200

Once again, it isn't about any individual acts gollygee Mar 2013 #87

I get it. Orrex Mar 2013 #201

Good post. Tien1985 Mar 2013 #37

thank you for noticing where this bullshit started. a definition given because it was ASKEd for. seabeyond Mar 2013 #78

This... pipi_k Mar 2013 #75

Your example isn't benevolent gollygee Mar 2013 #79

Hmm that standard has been changing for some time nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #107

Some here have been using it as a pretty dramatic strawman gollygee Mar 2013 #109

Also with air traffic control towers closing nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #111

People have always discussed a variety of issues here gollygee Mar 2013 #113

People discussing issues yup nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #153

if it looks petty, it's because some have built strawmen designed to make it look petty fishwax Mar 2013 #157

you were a paramedic, right? seabeyond Mar 2013 #112

It would never happen. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #119

wow. so the bottom line. a person asked for a definition. i gave a definition. and this is what seabeyond Mar 2013 #125

The discussion I have seen is about doors nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #137

and i explained to you the discussion about doors was manufactured, made up, to diss feminism. seabeyond Mar 2013 #141

Have a good day nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #146

yes. you are seeing a repeated lie saying feminist are outraged about doors. there is not a single seabeyond Mar 2013 #150

Whatever. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #156

what a fuckin' hoot. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #170

I am glad you are having a hoot nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #175

Why are you continuing to pretend that feminists are talking about opening doors? Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #184

Forgive me, what is the whole brouhaha about? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #185

Feminist are not framing it about doors. There are OPs after OPs LYING Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #188

Ok, whatever nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #192

You are blaming feminists for what others are doing. THEY are doing the framing Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #194

I am not blaming a soul nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #244

You might want to check where the brouhaha started nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #250

Good manners..n/t monmouth3 Mar 2013 #23

I guess I missed the post telling me I should be offended Arkansas Granny Mar 2013 #24

There was no such post treestar Mar 2013 #62

I had seen several threads on the door issue, so I assumed Arkansas Granny Mar 2013 #179

I would prefer to have the discussion on who goes through the door first, CrispyQ Mar 2013 #33

double doors take care of that boston bean Mar 2013 #34

Especially on elevators. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #114

I'm female and I hold doors for men. Fla Dem Mar 2013 #35

I will usually hold the door in that instance, but still go in first boston bean Mar 2013 #40

As a lifelone feminista Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #38

Well said! n/t Lisa D Mar 2013 #45

Nice! Orrex Mar 2013 #48

we are not spending the time on it or making the issue on it. none of us are outraged, or even seabeyond Mar 2013 #54

And not all of us Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #255

yes. i know you didnt know. too many dont. and the boys counted on that seabeyond Mar 2013 #257

Seabeyond, Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #260

No one is outraged except one or two girls on this thread Orrex Mar 2013 #262

I don't think it started there, seabeyond kdmorris Mar 2013 #264

Institutionalized Racism MattBaggins Mar 2013 #77

Opening the door for someone Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #155

If you can't see past the silly door nonsense MattBaggins Mar 2013 #161

Nobody is focused on it or spending a great deal of time on it gollygee Mar 2013 #84

We might as well be Free Republic MattBaggins Mar 2013 #89

this has gone so fuckin beyond childish to dishonestly disgusting. some troll at 46 starting an OP seabeyond Mar 2013 #96

As a lifelong feminist, you just jumped in with the posse that is trying to Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #106

+1 Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #196

+10000 LittleBlue Mar 2013 #208

My mother once scolded me for failing to hold a door open for a young lady. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #39

If you only do it for women than it is sexist MattBaggins Mar 2013 #82

I'll try to remember to feel chastised the next time I do it. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #105

"are often" - key words there aint_no_life_nowhere Mar 2013 #246

I say thank you... CherokeeDem Mar 2013 #42

Thank you for your thouhtful and thorough response! Orrex Mar 2013 #46

just politeness unionthug777 Mar 2013 #43

That's an impossible question to answer. MineralMan Mar 2013 #44

I see it as common courtesy WolverineDG Mar 2013 #47

So do I. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #50

No joke. Talk about first world problems WolverineDG Mar 2013 #52

So true 'talk about first world problems'! sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #85

nor the need to figure out you are being played and no feminist is making an issue. men are creating seabeyond Mar 2013 #88

I started this thread because I saw 3 others on it in the past 24 hours Orrex Mar 2013 #160

except the conversation is not about benevolent sexism. all have told you we open doors also and not seabeyond Mar 2013 #172

That was really cute, how he blamed you for other people's dismissive mocking and trivializing. redqueen Mar 2013 #174

I can see how there's a lot of confusion Orrex Mar 2013 #198

it would be an example of benevolent sexism then a definition explaining. lying that feminist on du seabeyond Mar 2013 #222

Weren't you the one who said this wasn't about opening doors? NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #229

Well, your claim that men are outraged is a lie Orrex Mar 2013 #231

It's societal rules like "Men must open doors for women" gollygee Mar 2013 #233

That would have been a much different--and much stronger--example Orrex Mar 2013 #237

again. show me on feminist that has suggested men should not open a door, or that a feminist is seabeyond Mar 2013 #235

You're demanding that I support claims that I haven't made Orrex Mar 2013 #241

Watch what you say or you will get put on ignore Auntie Bush Mar 2013 #197

i do not care if people put me on ignore. you tell me, yet do not seem to have an issue people lyin seabeyond Mar 2013 #225

Then wtf was this? polly7 Mar 2013 #206

wtf it is is a definition of what benevolent sexism is. you know, answering a question another post seabeyond Mar 2013 #224

YOU are the only one on this board or anywhere in even RL I've seen introduce polly7 Mar 2013 #227

it was in the OP. the poster asked what it was. and you are going on and on about me, seabeyond Mar 2013 #236

'Holding open a door and pulling out a chair' was in the OP? polly7 Mar 2013 #238

You say this wasn't about opening doors... NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #230

The strawman again gollygee Mar 2013 #93

:) whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #164

Exactly, sabrina. nt. polly7 Mar 2013 #205

dont know, do not care. i give a smile and say thank you. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #49

A fine response. Orrex Mar 2013 #151

"Benevolent Sexism"? chervilant Mar 2013 #51

It's a model developed by psychologists Recursion Mar 2013 #66

Yes, thank you, chervilant Mar 2013 #134

I tried Recursion Mar 2013 #177

I so know!! chervilant Mar 2013 #190

As a female Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #53

As a male KansDem Mar 2013 #81

This DUer had some points on that treestar Mar 2013 #55

this example is being overused and it is something both sexes now do for each other treestar Mar 2013 #57

I don't look at it as sexism life long demo Mar 2013 #58

If someone of either gender holds a door s-cubed Mar 2013 #59

Given the conditions you describe, it is not possible to know and I don't analyze it. n/t MadrasT Mar 2013 #65

Simple. Ask him. "Did you do that because I am a woman"? Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #67

I thought you were a guy. Quantess Mar 2013 #100

If I ever see a women assaulting a man because he held the door open for her based on her gender... sibelian Mar 2013 #176

I don't think sexism is 'benevolent', but not letting a door slam on the person behind you is. Sunlei Mar 2013 #68

I hold the door for anyone, man or woman. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #71

If he tries to stick his finger up my cooch..... peace13 Mar 2013 #72

I think the answer might be for women Whisp Mar 2013 #73

I lol`d... opiate69 Mar 2013 #242

Don't care. elleng Mar 2013 #80

If I hold a door open for another woman, does that mean I am a lesbian? djean111 Mar 2013 #86

Hard call. I'm a man and women hold doors for me. CosmicDustBunny Mar 2013 #90

Yeah I get that when I need to use my cane. whistler162 Mar 2013 #166

Motives or actions. Does it matter? Evergreen Emerald Mar 2013 #91

Simple, I just ask him. Quantess Mar 2013 #97

ROFL! n/t gollygee Mar 2013 #98

This whole thing started when someone asked what benevolent sexism was... lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #99

thank you for a breath of honesty. what has been created, literally manufactured over the last 24 seabeyond Mar 2013 #104

Yes, thank you. Quantess Mar 2013 #110

It's 2013, not 1964. I don't waste my time trying to assign Kahuna Mar 2013 #103

It's a polite thing to do. Period. I do it for other people, regardless of gender, they do it for me idwiyo Mar 2013 #108

so, you do not know wtf benevolent sexism is, but you do know it is stupid? seabeyond Mar 2013 #115

There is noting to know. I am sick and tired of "theoretical constructs", definitions, and idwiyo Mar 2013 #181

Benevolent Sexism is not trivial and it is certainly fucking not about opening doors... Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #126

Of course they find evidence supporting their "theoretical constructs" because they are looking for idwiyo Mar 2013 #186

Again, benevolent sexism is not about doors. redqueen Mar 2013 #117

Yes, we get it. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #120

The people who are outraged are the people acting so offended that anyone would treat the issue redqueen Mar 2013 #122

Got it. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #128

only if you say so dude. you and other men really obsessing over the damn doors seabeyond Mar 2013 #131

Well, doors ARE the subject of the OP. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #136

you and your fellow men are running around outraged swooning on the damn couch being seabeyond Mar 2013 #129

I haven't swooned since the last time I read "Gone With The Wind." NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #133

no... i have watched 24 hours of swooning and po boys being victimized with lies yawl are creating seabeyond Mar 2013 #138

That's awesome! NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #147

Yeah ....... life on the DU can be brutal. nt. polly7 Mar 2013 #149

"...setting yourself up as the victim." BuddhaGirl Mar 2013 #211

Yep. All those who are pretending that benevolent sexism is about doors... Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #132

Notice that the OP is staying far away from any discussion of the actual issue. redqueen Mar 2013 #173

Aw geez. Apophis Mar 2013 #118

Doesn't bother me... one_voice Mar 2013 #140

Why does someone who does something nice for you have to have a motive when he opens the southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #142

I will hold the door for a man as well jumptheshadow Mar 2013 #145

I call it good manners and say thank you. If I am the person in front appleannie1 Mar 2013 #158

I hate pork rinds Vinnie From Indy Mar 2013 #159

I don't know Aerows Mar 2013 #162

The problem is that this is really a non issue nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #163

A good answer. Thanks! Orrex Mar 2013 #165

How do you know what ? dipsydoodle Mar 2013 #167

What? richmwill Mar 2013 #169

Great point. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #171

Great reply! Orrex Mar 2013 #199

It's called common courtesy. Owl Mar 2013 #178

I Hold the Door Open for Everyone. It's the Polite Thing to Do. dballance Mar 2013 #182

wtf? i hold open the door for everybody.. it's simple courtesy.... dionysus Mar 2013 #183

I will say this much, an ill wind blows through DU of late. Divide and conquer Exultant Democracy Mar 2013 #187

It's basic courtesy. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #189

Ill hold the door for anyone. Its just polite. bullimiami Mar 2013 #191

I think that our energies would be better spent fighting malevolent sexism kdmorris Mar 2013 #193

no one would dare bring up benevolent sexism. a boob thread though, ya, that is what started this. seabeyond Mar 2013 #234

Because my arms work just fine, thank you very much. alarimer Mar 2013 #202

So he's automatically sexist, then? Orrex Mar 2013 #203

Courtesy is so offensive! NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #217

I consider it common courtesy BainsBane Mar 2013 #207

Thank you Orrex Mar 2013 #215

I don't mind at all - I don't worry about any possible "sexism" BuddhaGirl Mar 2013 #213

It's just good manners. Island Blue Mar 2013 #216

Just pepper spray him anyway. TheManInTheMac Mar 2013 #219

Okay...that was a home run. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #240

As a guy I observe the three steps rule. pa28 Mar 2013 #220

Holding a door for someone is good manners. I do it for everyone. Dash87 Mar 2013 #221

Reminds me of "Think Like a Man" JonLP24 Mar 2013 #223

Holding a door for someone is common decency BellaLuna Mar 2013 #226

I now have arthritis. I say THANK YOU. Hekate Mar 2013 #232

The real question is, what do you do when a man CLOSES a door? What then? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #243

I do all of the Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #245

Sure. I like it when a man I'm with is attentive. Cleita Mar 2013 #248

I think being with a Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #249

Actually, I don't care. Cleita Mar 2013 #247

First, I'll mace him, and then when he's down on the ground Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #259

Awesome response. GaYellowDawg Mar 2013 #265

Common courtesy. JNelson6563 Mar 2013 #261

Stick a fork in it, it's done (the door analogy) justiceischeap Mar 2013 #263

I don't bother with thinking about it. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #266

I'm self-deleting the OP, but here's the original text for the sake of posterity: Orrex Mar 2013 #267