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Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
14. There are all kinds of constitutional problems with National Popular Vote.
Wed Feb 1, 2012, 04:05 PM
Feb 2012
The Electoral College works, in conjunction with other constitutional institutions such as the enumeration of federal powers and the bicameral Congress, to maintain the Framers' anticipated balance between state and federal authority. Together, these institutions form a coherent federalist system. And this system poses considerable-and likely fatal-legal and practical barriers to the NPV's efforts to institutionalize majoritarian elections.

The most significant constitutional challenges to the NPV will likely arise under the Compact Clause, which forbids states from entering into "any Agreement or Compact with another State" without the "Consent of Congress." NPV supporters highlight that this Clause is interpreted loosely, and that current jurisprudence, as represented by U.S. Steel v. Multistate Tax Commission (1978), forbids only those compacts that "enhance[] state power quoad the National Government." Accordingly, NPV supporters presume their anticipated compact effects a horizontal shift in power among states rather than affecting the vertical relationship between federal and state power. But this argument is patently thin. There are few subjects likely to upset U.S. Steel's vertical balance more than the means by which states select a federal executive. The NPV compact would take effect once the combined electoral votes of the participating states could determine the election's outcome. The ability of a few states to determine election outcomes would give "the states" a unified face and an important advantage in bargaining with the federal government. As Adam Schleifer points out in his article Interstate Agreement for Electoral Reform, the NPV compact would also prevent the House of Representatives from acting as an Electoral College tiebreaker in the way the Twelfth Amendment anticipates. Predictable state voting prevents ties and nullifies this potential federal presence, further disrupting the vertical balance.

The NPV also faces a number of other significant constitutional obstacles. In New York v. United States (1992), the Supreme Court instructed that "[a] departure from the Constitution's plan for the intergovernmental allocation of authority cannot be ratified by the ‘consent' of state officials" because "the Constitution divides authority between federal and state governments for the protection of individuals" (emphasis added). While New York dealt with the specific issue of anti-commandeering, the Court conveyed a broader concern for the preservation of federalism. This discredits the NPV movement's claim that the constitutional freedom of states to allocate electoral votes allows them to allocate by reference to the national majority alone. And the NPV compact's form is independently objectionable. As the Supreme Court has objected to the Line Item Veto Act and other circum-constitutional shortcuts, the Court would presumably take issue with the NPV compact, which, as The New York Times has pointed out, blatantly advertises itself as an "end run."

Yet even if the NPV overcomes the challenges to its constitutionality, it will fail to eliminate states' federalist participation in presidential elections. The process it envisions is not truly majoritarian. Though the NPV hinges its arguments upon the supposed vestigiality of the Electoral College, it leaves the Electoral College in place, depending upon its state-centric system in a fundamental way to facilitate the NPV's goals. The states' uneven electoral weights make the NPV compact easier to effectuate than a constitutional amendment. Because of these weights, as few as eleven pro-NPV states could reconfigure the country's electoral process. And highlighting this fact is more than a formalistic endeavor. Allowing the states to institutionalize majoritarianism ignores that citizens have made a substantive choice to temper their majority interests through the reigning constitutional order. It also denies that majoritarianism is an ideology, that a state's choice to vote in line with the national majority is still a choice, and that a state's agency in this choice is irremediably federalist. Also, as Schleifer highlights, the perceived unfairness of an NPV-initiated majoritarian system could generate a pro-federalist backlash among states not party to the agreement. Since states currently tally their own votes, non-participating states could purposefully obfuscate to prevent NPV states from discerning the national tally or from effectuating the compact more generally.


http://www.michiganlawreview.org/articles/ideological-endowment-the-staying-power-of-the-electoral-college-and-the-weaknesses-of-the-national-popular-vote-interstate-compact

You really need a Constitutional Amendment to end the Electoral College.

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End the electoral college [View all] wilt the stilt Jan 2012 OP
Agreed. Here's a good mathematical case for why... Scuba Jan 2012 #1
The National Popular Vote Bill mvymvy Jan 2012 #2
It's completely unenforceable. Angleae Jan 2012 #3
Realities mvymvy Jan 2012 #5
The whole thing boils down to one question. Angleae Feb 2012 #6
Neither party will allow it to happen joeglow3 Feb 2012 #10
There are all kinds of constitutional problems with National Popular Vote. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #14
Each state has a number of electors equal to its total Congressional representation Zebedeo Jan 2012 #4
Why must this compromise extend to the Presidential election? 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #19
Sounds great, but not likely to ever happen Major Nikon Feb 2012 #7
National Popular Vote is not a constitutional amendment mvymvy Feb 2012 #9
That doesn't end the electorial college as the OP suggested Major Nikon Feb 2012 #12
National Popular Vote does not end the EC, but it does make every vote equal mvymvy Feb 2012 #15
And it's probably unconstitutional. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #18
Would be great -IF... upi402 Feb 2012 #8
As long as you like having the interior states unpaved. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #11
No, we can't Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #13
NPV does NOT require a constitutional amendment. It is 49% of the way to going into effect mvymvy Feb 2012 #16
What stops a state from just not doing this, or Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #17
or if (say) Texas chooses to not participate, and declines to provide a popular vote count? Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #20
Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 6 of the United States Code Requires States to Report Totals mvymvy Feb 2012 #22
And what if Texas refuses? What's the remedy? Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #23
49% of the way to going into effect - Enacted by 3 jurisdictions among the 13 smallest states mvymvy Feb 2012 #21
I'm still not buying it Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #24
It would be a constitutional and administrative nightmare. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #25
NPV achieves the goal of guaranteeing the Presidency to Candidate with most national popular votes mvymvy Feb 2012 #26
But it would be the popular vote of only the states in that 270 block Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #29
Winner of Popular Vote in ALL 50 States and DC gets NPV's enacting states' electoral votes - 270+ mvymvy Feb 2012 #31
I'm still not buying it.. again Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #34
see my post #13 of why this can't be done Motown_Johnny Feb 2012 #28
See Post #16 mvymvy Feb 2012 #32
Why? Don't you like a select group picking our leader for us? Rex Feb 2012 #27
It won't change much zipplewrath Feb 2012 #30
Any state that enacts the proportional approach on its own would reduce its own influence mvymvy Feb 2012 #33
About 76% of Americans and States are Ignored Under the Current System mvymvy Feb 2012 #35
When a presidential candidate spends more time in Iowa than California taught_me_patience Feb 2012 #36
That's a totally separate issue. The primary system is decided by the parties Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #37
Iowa was a swing state in 2008 taught_me_patience Feb 2012 #38
Sorry, thought you were talking about the caucuses (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #39
To answer your Q directly: "No, we cannot end it." Bruce Wayne Feb 2012 #40
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