General Discussion

King_Klonopin

(1,389 posts)

210. Thanks for a thoughtful response.

Tue Mar 19, 2013, 03:41 AM

Mar 2013

I don't like absolutes of any kind. I know the dogma in any church
always falls into this trap, but I can live with it.

I also don't live in an "either/or" world. Life is not that simple.

Jesus chose Peter to be the first pope, as it were, and Peter was
the most flawed of all the Apostles. I think that was the very reason
why Jesus chose him (just my opinion, though)

I am surprised by the amount of venom this post received, and
how many people seem to miss the points I tried to make.

I don't see changes coming from outside either. We can throw stones
at any large institution, but change is usually organic. Shaming people
like me into leaving can have negative blow-back. I guess I envision a
long, slow and painful "silent" coup by the laity -- not a revolution.

Thanks for the polite discorse.

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This anti-Catholic crap is getting to be annoying [View all] King_Klonopin Mar 2013 OP

well said! liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #1

kr HiPointDem Mar 2013 #2

The church's official positions are homophobic, bigoted, and sexist. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #3

Most religions are the same. dkf Mar 2013 #34

Yes they are whathehell Mar 2013 #39

No, we criticise Islam here too; the difference is the media is in love with Catholicism muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #76

I'm well aware of what "we" do here, having been part whathehell Mar 2013 #237

The end of the protestant majority was due to the increase in the non-Christians, not catholics muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #238

Okay. whathehell Mar 2013 #239

If someone condemns a Muslim's or Catholic's humanity cpwm17 Mar 2013 #84

Many religions, orthodox Judaism is one, espouse women as a lower form of humanity whathehell Mar 2013 #236

I'm not demanding anyone do anything. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #44

Good luck criticizing most of America for being part of an evil religion. dkf Mar 2013 #49

There are 1.2 billion Catholics on the planet Tobin S. Mar 2013 #50

It's certainly not a majority. dkf Mar 2013 #57

A majority of believers, no. But a majority of Christians, yes. trotsky Mar 2013 #85

When someone posts comments to the effect that, by attending Mass, King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #96

It isn't about being personally guilty or even "giving tacit approval" of things. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #106

You should understand, there is A LOT of resentment of the way the Church has shoved ITS policies Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #173

I am not the Catholic Church King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #177

You complained about "shoving beliefs" down people's throats. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #183

well said, and it needed saying. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2013 #217

Try this...be critical of the hierarchy nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #220

Yes, you will. In fact, it's something that I've always said. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #99

I can't demand much, but since you brought it up... backscatter712 Mar 2013 #126

When you criticize Teapartiers and GOP you aren't criticizing a group of ALLIES. pnwmom Mar 2013 #137

So if a Democrat joins an anti-choice organization, or an anti-gay organization -- NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #151

Most Catholics grew up with the Church, they didn't suddenly decide to join it as adults. pnwmom Mar 2013 #165

You see, this is the problem - your belief that "it's part of the DNA" muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #184

If it's not part of the DNA, it is, like some other aspects of upbringing, part of conditioning whathehell Mar 2013 #241

Anyone who's been conditioned as a child by a homophobic organisation muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #242

When I was growing up in the Sixties, the church didn't even mention homosexuality. whathehell Mar 2013 #244

Well, the RCC's attitude to women does leave a lot to be desired too muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #245

No kidding... whathehell Mar 2013 #246

No need to apologise - I agree those are at least as bad, and often worse muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #247

Well, thanks for saying that. whathehell Mar 2013 #248

"Part of the DNA"? No. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #189

That may explain your vehemence then. pnwmom Mar 2013 #203

I never demanded anything of anyone. NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #204

Thank you.....n/t whathehell Mar 2013 #240

Not Catholic, but couldn't agree more. TDale313 Mar 2013 #4

no it's very different because this is a progressive board.. Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #11

Thank you...I'm glad the sane, non-haters are beginning to speak up. whathehell Mar 2013 #40

dont walk down the garbage-filled sidewalk sigmasix Mar 2013 #5

I agree 100% olddots Mar 2013 #14

You have to understand that a lot of the anti-Catholic feeling JDPriestly Mar 2013 #6

Well, I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition! TDale313 Mar 2013 #7

That's rather like being angry with the Federal government today, because of Sherman's march struggle4progress Mar 2013 #8

Lots of Southerners were when I was a young girl. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #10

I'm angry with the Church (the Church, not DU Catholics) for what it does today Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #227

I was responding to the prior poster's remarks about events centuries ago struggle4progress Mar 2013 #230

Right. But I'm saying, the anti-Catholic Church feeling is fueled by its actions today. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #231

Every religion has had its share of being persecuted. King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #19

I'm reminding you so that you can put some of the intolerance you feel directed JDPriestly Mar 2013 #26

Why do you slap the label of "intolerance" on me? King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #100

You say you are not ashamed of being Catholic. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #233

Karma? We justify present day bigotry *against individuals* nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #224

Today's bigotry is not justified by history, but it is explained by it. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #232

Thanks. You can add Oliver Cromwell to the pantheon of Protestant murderers of Catholics too whathehell Mar 2013 #43

Mary wasn't killed for her Catholicism atreides1 Mar 2013 #83

As I recall, the suspicion that Mary was part of the plot to kill Elizabeth was never proven whathehell Mar 2013 #213

But it's not just about history: In Same-Sex Marriage Fight, Catholic Church Gives More Than $1 Mi muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #81

My grandmother left the Catholic Church when... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #20

I hope that we will really see change especially with regard to women, JDPriestly Mar 2013 #23

I'll never live to see a female Pope, or even a bishop, but... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #32

I sincerely hope that the promise of the Catholic Church will become reality for JDPriestly Mar 2013 #37

My inlaws left the church when the parish priest told her RainDog Mar 2013 #36

I've heard many such stories, and... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #41

Yeah, too bad Savita Halappanavar RainDog Mar 2013 #170

My friend's father in law told her that her parents were in Hell because they died Catholics.. whathehell Mar 2013 #45

This sort of thing fries me... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #51

Yes, it's terrible, isn't it? whathehell Mar 2013 #215

Karma is supposed to boomerang back on the one who King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #98

How about for those who allowed pedophiles to keep molesting children? How about... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #161

The issue isn't whether the Catholic Church is guilty of doing bad things King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #168

So, you wouldn't criticize a Southern who had a confederate flag and belonged to... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #187

But you are attacking the southerner who is standing to the guy nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #223

My mom grew up in the 1930s and remembers the KKK reviling Roman Catholics Hekate Mar 2013 #9

The Catholic Church has been its own worst enemy in this respect for JDPriestly Mar 2013 #12

Do you know how many, especially in the South, opposed Jack Kennedy because of anti-Catholicism? whathehell Mar 2013 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #180

Actually many of the people you're thinking of might've been raised Catholics themselves ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #13

no, in the heyday of the klan, it was a fundamentalist protestant movement of struggle4progress Mar 2013 #17

The heyday of the klan is not today ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #86

Hekate's remark concerned the 1930s, a time still in living memory. struggle4progress Mar 2013 #88

But all of this must've ceased before the 80s ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #89

I think that after WWII a certain fraction of Americans set out to fight prejudice struggle4progress Mar 2013 #93

I'm not anti Catholic. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #133

I have some issues with them: I don't understand their attitudes towards sexuality, struggle4progress Mar 2013 #152

That's a very good analysis. The extermination camps of WWII were a shock to the conscience... Hekate Mar 2013 #175

That happened in the teens and 1920s in my father's town as well. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2013 #78

I see what you did there. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #15

Um. You have confused fundamentalist Protestant ignorance with Roman Catholic theology Hekate Mar 2013 #25

Pretty clever there, especially for one who uses the name of a Pagan Goddess, commonly adopted Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #30

Golly Hekate Mar 2013 #38

Wanna see the same people doing this get all freaked out? The Straight Story Mar 2013 #16

Best post of the week! Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #21

Good post, TSS Hekate Mar 2013 #28

Spot on. dkf Mar 2013 #31

K/R~~~ LovingA2andMI Mar 2013 #33

using hatred against Catholics to legitimize hatred against Muslims both which happens on DU all Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #35

So you are saying Straight Story supports the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? dkf Mar 2013 #47

I'm saying that legitimizing bigotry against Muslims makes waging war on them a lot easier Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #48

Couldn't disagree more leftynyc Mar 2013 #52

So it's never occurred to you that our news media is biased AGAINST Muslims? CrawlingChaos Mar 2013 #61

Oh brother leftynyc Mar 2013 #79

Again, thanks for pointing out the obvious bias as to who "gets a pass" and who does not. n/t whathehell Mar 2013 #214

So if Catholics dislike homosexuality and Muslims kill homosexuals, who should be called on it? dkf Mar 2013 #53

to simply say that Catholics dislike Homosexuality and Muslims Kill homosexuals is as bigoted and Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #56

So am I imagining that homosexual sex is a death penalty offense in 5 Muslim countries? dkf Mar 2013 #60

I'll put it this way - I lived in the Middle East 26 years and I certainly knew lots and lots of Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #62

But we are talking about institutions and criticizing people for belonging to them... dkf Mar 2013 #63

well obviously Islam does not get a pass on DU - one would have to be extremely unobservant to Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #65

Lol sorry but I have to chuckle at the idea that people are sensitive to others backgrounds and dkf Mar 2013 #67

Where do you draw the line between legitimising bigotry and attacking it? Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #55

it is a rather recent event even in the Western world that enlightened attitudes have arisen Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #58

I agree with most (not all) of that, but it looks like an attempt to avoid answering the question. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #181

I don't know how you figure that Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #199

My question was "how far do you consider it legitimate to go in criticising or attacking Islam?" Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #200

I think one should exercise the same caution about stirring up religions, ethnic and sectarian Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #202

I completely disagree that opinions are due the same respect that skin colours are. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #211

Every single person here knows that preaching hatred against Muslim has gone on with impunity over Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #54

You are right, of course CrawlingChaos Mar 2013 #59

Dumb comparison michigandem58 Mar 2013 #69

"we don't really believe the BS principles we expound upon so often as liberals." sibelian Mar 2013 #74

Excellent post. cordelia Mar 2013 #75

Challenge accepted. nt Zorra Mar 2013 #112

all deity based religions are equally vile. All of them should be discouraged. bowens43 Mar 2013 #129

Nonsense. Some are far, far worse than others. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #182

Done. Thread is below. Zorra Mar 2013 #147

Islam just called. Said to tell you "Welcome to DU" Scootaloo Mar 2013 #18

HA !!! King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #22

yep Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #27

This anti-Catholic crap is WELL EARNED by the RCC. nt valerief Mar 2013 #24

If it's annoying, ignore it. dogknob Mar 2013 #29

Anger, anger everywhere... King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #103

You know I like you nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #119

Thanks for the help King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #145

CFC every year we have the debate nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #146

BTW, did you know we now have the Interfaith Group... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #42

could you post a link please Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #64

OK... TreasonousBastard Mar 2013 #72

Fair enough... sendero Mar 2013 #66

It's not just the crimes done by certain individuals in the RCC. Ikonoklast Mar 2013 #68

Give us real quotes instead of ones you made up michigandem58 Mar 2013 #70

I'm not Catholic but I agree with you totally and I'm glad you said it. nt Raine Mar 2013 #71

I treat the Catholic Church the same way I treat any other religion. hobbit709 Mar 2013 #73

I agree. My hope is we get some direction from the admins that this kind of bigotry needs to stop stevenleser Mar 2013 #77

it isn't bigotry to criticize error datasuspect Mar 2013 #80

I never said it was. It's bigotry to use broad brush negative generalizations for people. nt stevenleser Mar 2013 #91

are you sure about that? datasuspect Mar 2013 #92

That is the very definition of bigotry : King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #107

this is the very definition of bigotry/bigot datasuspect Mar 2013 #111

Exactly. stevenleser Mar 2013 #197

well, two of them might be quite true. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2013 #219

Nice straw man. I hope <> "Attempt to control". nt stevenleser Mar 2013 #138

A small minority? ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #117

"Deal with it and own your actions." - I am not Catholic. Push that somewhere else.nt stevenleser Mar 2013 #142

I have a request. trotsky Mar 2013 #82

You know, there is a Spanish saying that applies here nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #109

How can I demand it stop when no one gives evidence that it's happening? trotsky Mar 2013 #113

But people have nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #115

"Perhaps not in the words you'd like" trotsky Mar 2013 #122

In this very thread nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #124

I just took some time to read that post very carefully. trotsky Mar 2013 #130

Given the OP had the exact same interpretation nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #132

I don't think the insult was necessary. trotsky Mar 2013 #135

As I said, have an excellent day nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #140

I'm sorry you deem it so unreasonable to expect people to back up their claims. trotsky Mar 2013 #166

It's not unpleasant nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #167

I've merely asked you questions trotsky Mar 2013 #171

I answered, they were insufficient nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #174

No, you didn't answer. trotsky Mar 2013 #176

Welcome to the list! zappaman Mar 2013 #207

+1,000,000,000,000 HuckleB Mar 2013 #193

It has nothing to do with being Catholic. Ian David Mar 2013 #87

Sorry. Nice try, but you are not the victim here. Zorra Mar 2013 #90

I'm not Catholic but the hate towards you guys is so palpable it makes my skin crawl.... Rowdyboy Mar 2013 #94

Wah wah wah. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #118

Well said. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #95

I don't hate Catholics, I do hate the Catholic Church Leadership Marrah_G Mar 2013 #97

This is not about the individual people; the Catholic Church has a huge footprint magical thyme Mar 2013 #101

"I don't shove my Catholicism down anyone's throat" truebrit71 Mar 2013 #102

Your being very selective in how you chose to read my OP King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #121

I am not recommending that you abandon your faith. That is totally different.... truebrit71 Mar 2013 #154

I hope you don't contribute to the BBC. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #143

Anti-Catholic or anti-Catholicism? There is a difference. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #104

Hold it, I was told by some that it is your imagination nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #105

I hope you cry for all discrimination. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #136

Conflating is not helping you nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #139

I'll take that as a concession. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #141

You are right, defending bigotry against posters is hard to do nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #144

"No one expects the Progressive Inquisition!" Common Sense Party Mar 2013 #108

This is like white folks crying about racism. nt Walk away Mar 2013 #110

Haha so true. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #120

Plenty of people defend leftynyc Mar 2013 #235

Wonderfully stated, King. Thank you from my Irish Catholic heart. corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #114

Well, Ms McGillicutty King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #149

I wish I had stopped after reading corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #178

Oh yes, My Dear King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #186

Give me a break. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #116

And one way to change it King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #128

Sure pick and choose what you believe. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #134

If I stop donating money, will that make me acceptable as a Catholic? King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #155

That sounds more like wanting to stay Christian, but not Catholic ButterflyBlood Mar 2013 #160

How's that changing thing working out? ohheckyeah Mar 2013 #148

Is that you, Sarah ? King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #157

seriously.... ohheckyeah Mar 2013 #159

The new head guy thinks gay marriage is Satan's work. I don't see change at the top. Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #229

The Catholic church's bigotry and misogyny is getting really annoying. Apophis Mar 2013 #123

Careful. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #125

+1 darkangel218 Mar 2013 #162

If the "Catholic Church" were called the "Catholic Party" or "CatholicPAC", NYC Liberal Mar 2013 #190

Agreed. Apophis Mar 2013 #192

Indeed. Indeed. Indeed. HuckleB Mar 2013 #195

the whining about the so called 'anti catholic-crap' is getting annoying. bowens43 Mar 2013 #127

Annoying? Insulting? Try growing up in a church that only sees you as a future brood mare. LeftyMom Mar 2013 #131

The Catholic Church recently has gotten far more in your face HockeyMom Mar 2013 #150

The RCC and Evangelicals are determined to turn this nation into a Christian theocracy. Dawson Leery Mar 2013 #153

They excommunicated John Kerry as a tacit endorsement of warmonger Bush Kolesar Mar 2013 #158

I read DU for hours per day and don't see the anti-Catholic crap you claim Kolesar Mar 2013 #156

Here's a beauty for ya: King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #164

Some folks are just incapable of seeing them nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #169

As you seek, so shall you find Kolesar Mar 2013 #188

It's called find an anecdote and generalize from there. HuckleB Mar 2013 #196

The accusation that I feel "persecuted", or am acting the "victim" King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #212

Truth is served by freedom and vice versa. Being capable of chosing either to stay in patrice Mar 2013 #163

I posted the same thing in GD last week. It was locked. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #172

I have a question for Catholics Dragonbreathp9d Mar 2013 #179

As a former Catholic school grad of 12 years HockeyMom Mar 2013 #191

I don't really consider stating an opinion an act of madmom Mar 2013 #185

The "Yeah for the NEW POPE!" posts are what need to go. HuckleB Mar 2013 #194

"Not ashamed"? Perhaps you should be. mr blur Mar 2013 #198

"Christian privilege"? What Christian privilege? cordelia Mar 2013 #221

From where I sit, as an Anglican . . . markpkessinger Mar 2013 #201

that's exactly what the thrust of the "accusations" have been RainDog Mar 2013 #206

Thanks for a thoughtful response. King_Klonopin Mar 2013 #210

What next..... whistler162 Mar 2013 #205

Catholic shmatholic tabasco Mar 2013 #208

I would be more impressed if you were to tell us that you were working to rhett o rick Mar 2013 #209

There ARE pedophile priests in the Church, ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2013 #216

Its easy to bash Catholics.. DCBob Mar 2013 #218

Methinks the Irish may have a different opinion. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2013 #222

Im talking about people who are Catholics, not the church. DCBob Mar 2013 #225

I really don't care what the Catholic Church thinks about any matter... Not Me Mar 2013 #226

The Pope, the hierarchy, and the theology should be bashed. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #228

it's not anti catholic really upi402 Mar 2013 #234

I have family members who order dominoes pizza, eat at Chik- Fillet loyalsister Mar 2013 #243

I congratulated you on your new pope in another thread but... Jasana Mar 2013 #249