General Discussion

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)

197. i have thought to that time.

Tue Mar 19, 2013, 12:01 PM

Mar 2013

a lot of stuff was happening. and now, generations later, we are raising our children letting them down. i do believe it was mine time that did this. maybe sometime we can have a really fun thread on this concept. i have been thinking about it a lot.

being a teen in the late 70's early 80's and living single thru out 80's as a twenty something. that was a totally different role than just the previous generation. it was the first time as a group so many of us lived that life. all thru the 20's were play for me, some very dangerous play, and a lot of fellow 20 somethings doing the same.

it absolutely had a huge effect. and i see it in the parenting today.

that is a good point and it is something i have considered a lot. i just have not found what i am looking for.

thanks.

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"We Owe to Our Sons What We've Given Our Daughters" [View all] HereSince1628 Mar 2013 OP

I think the problem here is NCLB and standardized tests gollygee Mar 2013 #1

The author doesn't see that, he goes on to say: HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #2

I'm telling you what I see when I volunteer at my kids' schools gollygee Mar 2013 #4

You're making a very astute judgment. Squinch Mar 2013 #85

I heard once that boys have eight year spans and girls have seven year spans panader0 Mar 2013 #127

generally, physically also. it is a hoot in middle school watching the tall 5, 6, 7 grade girls seabeyond Mar 2013 #130

I know that this will be a problem for my youngest. Butterbean Mar 2013 #137

he's going to have to master "sitting at a desk" eventually. seabeyond Mar 2013 #139

Really? Is/was your son really physically active and stuff? Butterbean Mar 2013 #143

It helps if they can teach the kids how to sit instead of just expecting them to and then punishing liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #145

My oldest is autistic, and in a self contained AU classroom. Butterbean Mar 2013 #146

he has always been active. and he likes his down time. he was fun because he would read, seabeyond Mar 2013 #162

Montessori is great. nt tblue37 Mar 2013 #153

We still don't acknowledge women's math ability nearly enough. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #78

The whole bit about boys suddenly being ignored is a huge pile MattBaggins Mar 2013 #123

this is my issue with this theory. education was no different 3, 4 decades ago when men were the seabeyond Mar 2013 #125

Boys do better on standardized tests, yet get worse grades. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #14

No, it isn't the test - it's the classroom structure that is a response to the test gollygee Mar 2013 #17

not black boys, who seem to me a focal point of this article La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #23

feminism is not the reason boys are falling behind liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #3

I may be dense, but I don't think this is strictly about feminism HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #6

this is only one thing that is wrong with the public schools system liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #8

Yes and all that undermines a genuine sense of possibility. HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #9

yes, where there is no opportunity there is no hope. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #11

Yup. The education system is broken (and I speak as a long-time educator). LuckyLib Mar 2013 #27

personally i think all of society is attacking our boys and without a lot of work in the home front, seabeyond Mar 2013 #5

And yet these boys, when they come of age and are still boys...as presented, and I agree... Lionessa Mar 2013 #42

they are also pretty lonely, messed up, hurting themselves in many ways. it is not healthy. seabeyond Mar 2013 #48

I work mostly with boys, since I'm a speech-language pathologist, and most of the kids with phylny Mar 2013 #110

so if a boy learns at a slower pace we should just force him to learn faster? liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #112

I reread my post and I don't believe I said anything like that. phylny Mar 2013 #113

are you not saying that we just don't expect enough out of our boys? liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #114

We are speaking in generalities, or at least I am. phylny Mar 2013 #121

You only raised girls, and the same methods worked with them all. Lucky you. pnwmom Mar 2013 #183

Lucky me indeed. phylny Mar 2013 #200

If you're an educated professional then you must know pnwmom Mar 2013 #201

I think the reason my autistic son misbehaved was because he has always seen home as a sanctuary. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #202

Absolutely. He trusts you more than anyone else in the world. pnwmom Mar 2013 #203

Not only that, I often tell parents phylny Mar 2013 #204

Yes! And how many times did my sons try a new food because it was offered pnwmom Mar 2013 #205

Oh my good point. I had a young (5-6 yo) that wouldn't keep his hands off my equip last Lionessa Mar 2013 #120

this is why you're the professional liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #172

Good for you for doing everything you think is right. However, you only raised girls pnwmom Mar 2013 #182

I can't stand Sommers usually. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #7

Girls who are good at math have a tough time of it. You will just have to trust me on that. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #80

are we allowed to have a discussion about the dysfunctionality of masculinity La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #10

No. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #18

that's what i thought. nt La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #21

Masculinity, just like Femininity, has been hijacked and defined by the Advertising Industry Taverner Mar 2013 #44

not just advertising, although i am sure that does not help. La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #45

Advertising, the media in general Taverner Mar 2013 #49

Advertising just distills and recirculates what society already believes Scootaloo Mar 2013 #131

No. Men like Jackson Katz have been trying, redqueen Mar 2013 #59

yup. jobs are changing, that requires staying in school longer and longer. La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #62

Yes yes, excellent points. redqueen Mar 2013 #66

i think we raised our daughters differently La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #68

I think boys and girls are different very early on. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #82

no. i hear that often. i hate it. we had no expectation and we did not direct. allowing activity seabeyond Mar 2013 #91

Why? Because we don't like boys as much. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #12

I'd say need more than like The2ndWheel Mar 2013 #15

I think that many here are (sometimes not so) privately giddy about the failures of male children in leeroysphitz Mar 2013 #13

Who? gollygee Mar 2013 #19

really? you think people here root for failure of young black boys in education? La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #20

I KNOW some do and no, I'm not going to call them out and no I wasn't lumping you in there. n/t leeroysphitz Mar 2013 #24

Well, that's pretty chickenshit. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #29

Wow. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #35

oh bullshit. what a horrible accusation bettyellen Mar 2013 #74

No. Just the not-black ones. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #25

yes, white men are always under attack. nt La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #28

a) you meant "boys" and b) you're the one who chose the qualifier. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #31

i drew the qualifier because the article focussed on black boys and so i did too. nt La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #32

The problem is more acute among black boys, but not unique to them. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #34

What makes it more acute for black boys? boston bean Mar 2013 #109

1) Race is a meaningful source of disadvantage. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #133

What the hell Jeff? ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #38

seriously Jeff? Instead of whining about feminists, men could and should learn a lot! bettyellen Mar 2013 #81

I'm serious about what I said. It sounds as if you read something else. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #90

No. I feel like my kids are being attacked. I'm mostly indifferent to personal attacks. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #88

this conversation seems to be just like the one about benevolent sexism and the Pope liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #92

Hooookay. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #95

where are these women cheering, you are talking about? nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #116

"And now in this thread you have women who cheer the failure of children." fishwax Mar 2013 #166

I don't use eye roll smilies. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #94

If male privilege trumped white privilege... lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #97

Ok I get it now ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #103

who would that be? i fight for my boys continually and for years have been putting up info seabeyond Mar 2013 #33

Fair enough, I'm semi-guilty. I'm not giddy, but I got no sympathy either since Lionessa Mar 2013 #43

It's a little harder to come to that conclusion when you have both a boy and girl as children. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #51

I have a boy and a girl, both grown now, but I do not find the same as you, both did just fine. Lionessa Mar 2013 #76

Oh, and don't forget, should your son and daughter happen to choose the same profession... Lionessa Mar 2013 #79

oh, my gosh you think I don't know that? You think she doesn't know that? liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #83

I get it, I'm just saying that certainly mitigates any sympathy I might otherwise have for Lionessa Mar 2013 #84

That's okay. I have enough sympathy for all of them. So do many others. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #86

Please do note that regardless of my sympathy or lack thereof... Lionessa Mar 2013 #87

Really? You guys are gonna just rush over and act all indignant? leeroysphitz Mar 2013 #89

lol lol.... look at you. k. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #117

leeroy, might want to take note. post after post of ours addressing the issue. thinking, listening seabeyond Mar 2013 #124

You can't overlook Aerows Mar 2013 #16

When I was 12 I started thinking school was stupid, I expected to be cannon fodder HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #39

2000 buscho masho'ism really projected this for our boys. middle school is where seabeyond Mar 2013 #50

The US has certainly richly developed jingoism over the past 12 years. HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #57

from what i hear, the kids are certainly feeling their future is beyond their control for sure. seabeyond Mar 2013 #61

they aren't alone. I think there is no debt crisis, but the ads on the Ed Show HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #67

And climate change. That is a huge one. nt redqueen Mar 2013 #73

As a teacher I would agrue that the problem goes to serious and important issues in education jimlup Mar 2013 #22

Not that many years ago, people were very concerned about the lag among girls. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #30

Do you suppose it is the Lionessa Mar 2013 #47

Partly true. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #93

Exactly my point! And because teachers don't like normal little boy behavior, the get medicated. Lionessa Mar 2013 #98

i like this post. very much. i agree. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #119

And why is it that the overwhelming majority of Pre-K teachers are women? lolly Mar 2013 #140

Partly because of the suspicion heaped upon any man looking to work with kids. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #147

They shouldn't allow prejudiced people keep them from teaching. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #148

Naive. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #150

I have also heard of cases where the innocent sue and get the decisions reversed. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #152

I had a casual acquaintance who killed himself because of apparently unfounded allegations. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #154

gay people sometimes kill themselves too. That does not stop other from fighting. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #155

Being a teacher is a choice. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #156

That is true. That does not mean they should allow others to tell them they can't teach liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #157

That is really sad ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #159

i have done a lot fo research on this, that is not true. it is what is being promoted, also paying seabeyond Mar 2013 #164

I can definitely see how the pay would be an issue. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #167

We should pay teachers at least as much as DOV workers or city workers. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #171

Could you name things that girls are in fact good and frankly much better at then boys? HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #36

I'm hoping he just means that boys and girls have different learning styles liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #41

This of course is true of all children. This is not just a gender issue. seabeyond Mar 2013 #52

it's different now liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #58

hmmm. my kids are freshman and senior. lol. so not like i have been out of the middle school seabeyond Mar 2013 #65

I sometimes I forget that I'm not talking to colleagues who all know this data well... jimlup Mar 2013 #96

I find the arguments for single sex classrooms to be compelling. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #102

I think there are ways of addressing the problems without seperating the sexes liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #122

Single sex classrooms are not correllated with reduced academic performance among girls. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #126

Those are quite compelling kdmorris Mar 2013 #128

a year ago on NPR i heard the opposite. it reinforces sexism with boys. seabeyond Mar 2013 #134

Looks to me like it depends on how it's done kdmorris Mar 2013 #181

i hear ya on that. and i found it interesting myself. i am all for what works. seabeyond Mar 2013 #184

Thanks for the follow up kdmorris Mar 2013 #186

i was surprised with florida on the bottom. i do not think it is anymore. seabeyond Mar 2013 #189

Yeah, well, if Rick Scott has his way kdmorris Mar 2013 #190

Well thanks, I do appreciate you naming them. HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #129

but think about this. this is so fuckin' interesting. i said in a post above that studies show boys seabeyond Mar 2013 #132

my autistic son had fewer and fewer tantrums the more he could verbalize how he felt liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #144

absolutely liberal. this is what i have found with the kids. it is always trying things out, seabeyond Mar 2013 #169

So you're saying boys learn differently? ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #55

because they have been working so hard to turn our boys into savages with huge wallets-- librechik Mar 2013 #26

boys love of video games and parents focus on sports for their boys is a big part of the problem Fresh_Start Mar 2013 #37

think about the disfunctional steubenville...football heroes Fresh_Start Mar 2013 #40

boys can be active and visual learners without turning into over masculinized monsters liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #46

and i have two boys that must learn thru reading, not listening. we know our kids. we can give seabeyond Mar 2013 #54

I agree parents have to participate but it is hard when you have a special education liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #63

you child is the one being most lost in the cracks of the system that has been created. seabeyond Mar 2013 #69

yeah it's not so much the teachers that I blame as the school administrations, the school boards, liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #70

I am the mother of only daughters HockeyMom Mar 2013 #53

Christina Hoff Sommers is an acceptable source here now? redqueen Mar 2013 #56

I suppose the guy who deserves scruitiny is the author, Mark Sherman, PhD HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #60

That Sommers is problematic as a source was discussed in the article tkmorris Mar 2013 #64

Well a brief glimpse at some of the discussions about this issue on DU redqueen Mar 2013 #71

Your reaction is understandable. However... tkmorris Mar 2013 #72

I ignored the name as best I could ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #165

I know right? ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #151

We are pushing all our pre-school and kindergarten children too fast. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #75

i agree. i had one child that was always ahead in the milestones. i had one that was always behind seabeyond Mar 2013 #135

Absolutely no question about it and the statistics prove it davidn3600 Mar 2013 #77

College degrees are becoming increasingly useless. Evoman Mar 2013 #99

everyone should be have access to any and all education liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #100

Degrees are the price you pay for a career in the comfy chair. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #101

Fair point. Evoman Mar 2013 #104

Women have alternatives too. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #105

Explain why male nurses on average make more than female nurses. boston bean Mar 2013 #106

They work more hours. Simple. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #107

How the hell do they get so much time to work all them extra hours? boston bean Mar 2013 #111

The trend holds true for all occupations. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #118

I'm a nurse. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #170

One year out of college, female teachers earn 89 percent of what male teachers earn. seabeyond Mar 2013 #136

Male teachers take coaching jobs. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #149

wrong. the first year out.... many are not in coaching positions and if it were so obvious, seabeyond Mar 2013 #168

Have you watched that lady "Body Language" expert truedelphi Mar 2013 #161

bookmark for tomorrow. so tired, but i want to watch. thanks. luv this stuff. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #173

So what are some real world solutions to this? Evoman Mar 2013 #108

American education is in crisis. Most problems stem from lack of funding. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #115

evo... 3, 4 decades ago school was more structured. and yet, boys overwhelmingly graduated seabeyond Mar 2013 #138

So all we need to do is paddle them like we use to? liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #141

dont even go there. i am not suggesting hitting a child. i will read your post in a bit seabeyond Mar 2013 #142

sure sounds like that's the point you're trying to make. Pining Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #163

Oh come on. Evoman Mar 2013 #174

I've re-read that post 3 times, it sure sounds like that is the point she's trying to make. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #178

I know you guys disagree often Evoman Mar 2013 #179

'what I know'.. heh. She regularly makes arguments about the 'decadent, worsening culture' Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #180

it is simply the truth. talking about the differences in the system then and now. not a whole lot seabeyond Mar 2013 #185

I expressed my opinion on part of what I think may be happening in an earlier thread. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #192

your opinion means shit to fact. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #193

What "fact"? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #194

your opinion that my stating the paddle in the past means i advocate paddling. to the fact i do not seabeyond Mar 2013 #195

I acknowledged that. My use of "opinion" in the prior post was in regard to what I wrote in HoF Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #196

i have thought to that time. seabeyond Mar 2013 #197

I apologize for misinterpreting your post. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #198

thank you. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #199

thanks. believing their own PR. seemed to be the meme to say. regardless of only having men seabeyond Mar 2013 #191

my theory ecstatic Mar 2013 #160

Maybe. Evoman Mar 2013 #175

There's a probably a few causes ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #176

That kind of goes with what i was saying above Evoman Mar 2013 #177

having some college debt makes staying in college more likely for both men and women. seabeyond Mar 2013 #187

We do? Then do something about the ancient American tradition of anti-intellectualism eridani Mar 2013 #188