If Catholics stopped being welcome in the Democratic Party, rightst fundies would soon go unchecked.

[jeff47]

97. I can no more defend the position of others

than the "we just ignore that" group can defend their church.

I really don't care that others are making extreme demands.

Remember - those Theses were only nailed to one door in Germany. They were not intended to change the world, but to voice objections. They ended up changing the Christian world a great deal.

i'm saying drop a note in the collection plate. Or make a minor fuss when you talk to your priest. I'm not requiring a large-scale organized protest outside the Vatican.

I am not requiring such Catholics to defend their hierarchy, and as such I see no reason I should defend the "you must abandon your church" crowd.

Plenty of Catholics here have openly spoken out in defiance of current Church teachings in several areas, and expressed outrage over the enabling of pedophile priests etc.

They've spoken to exactly the people that don't matter. Speaking out to DU will not reform the church. In fact, the church will never hear of it.

When the last two Popes came to America they met with Catholic groups that were organized to fight for the victims of pedophila by priests, including many abuse survivors. They organized and lobbied the Church internally to get that face time with the Pope.

And they aren't who I am talking about.

You indirectly ridicule praor, but for believers prayor is a powerful force, that is one reason why we always see prayor vigils spring up when ever there is a mass shooting.

The vigils are a public display. It doesn't matter if they're praying or not. The point is the display. Private prayer will do nothing to reform the church.

It's been a long time since I had contact with the gay Catholics who formed Dignity to oppose Church teachings on homosexuality - but I very much doubt they have given up and gone away.

Hey look, it's another example of those who have already done what I was talking about.

Again, the protest does not have to be successful nor loud. It just has to be directed at the right people.

What percentage of Democrats do you figure did anything on a public enough level that anyone other than their close friends and family would know that they opposed the Iraq war beyond voting against George W. Bush?

Again, the protest does not have to be successful nor loud. It just has to be directed at the right people.

What percentage of Democratic voters wrote letters to the editor or marched in the streets?

Again, the protest does not have to be successful nor loud. It just has to be directed at the right people. Editors are not the right people. Random passers-by on the streets are not the right people. People asking for donations are the right people.

What percentage risked jail through civil disobediance to stop the War Machine?

How many more times would you like me to repeat myself? Or do you want to continue assaulting your strawman?