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pampango

(24,692 posts)
12. It is human nature that people do not like living under repressive kings/dictators.
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 07:25 AM
Mar 2013

I wouldn't like it. You wouldn't like. 'They' don't like it. The French didn't like it in the 1780's. The Russians didn't like it in 1917. Not surprisingly - Arabs being people too - they don't like it either.

Usually there is little that anyone can do about one's government - particularly so if a government uses the military, police and security services to maintain control of society and preserve their rule. Just because people are not constantly demonstrating or actively rebelling (resulting in being jailed, tortured and killed) against a repressive government does not mean that they are happy about their situation.

I'm sure the French king, the Russian tsar and every other king/dictator, when faced with a revolution, thought "Where did this come from? The peasants all seemed to be happy last year. Who's causing this unrest? Must be some foreigner! My people love me."

If, hypothetically, Obama had come up with a strategy to replace Mubarak and Assad with fundamentalist Islamic governments then the tea partiers would congratulate themselves. He would have proven that he is a Muslim fundamentalist bent on installing Sharia law in the US. Their train of thought (if you can give them this much credit):

Obama started the Arab Spring in Tunisia rather than in Egypt or Syria, because he wanted to try it out in a small country that has nothing that we are really interested in. He saw how well it worked in Tunisia - how easy it is to fool people that their lives will be better without a dictator; they still believe that 'human dignity' stuff just like the French and Russians did long ago!

Having seen how well the Arab Spring game worked in Tunisia, Obama then took his show on the road to Libya, Egypt then Syria because he hates 'secular' dictators (even those that have done the US' bidding for decades) and really wants fundamentalist dictators. It worked in Egypt when the US-supported military largely refused to shoot civilians in large numbers; it worked in Libya when the military did shoot back, but NATO bombed them; it may or may not work in Syria where the military shot back and no one bombed them.

Once a fundamentalist dictator is safely installed in Syria, Obama will go after Jordan, Algeria, Morocco and every other 'secular' government. Once that is accomplished Obama will have to decide whether to go after Europe first (where the far-right already worries that Muslim influence is ruining the continent) or go straight for Sharia law in the US and an Obama socialist/Islamic dictatorship).

End of tea party 'train of thought'.

We have come to expect that kind of lunatic 'thought' from the far-right in the US.

I suspect most on the left who have qualms about what is happening in the Arab Spring prefer secular dictators to unpredictable democratic governments that have to deal with the frustrations and contradictions created by decades of repressive rule. Muslim fundamentalists were often the only even semi-effective opposition to entrenched dictators, so when the dictators were removed they got much credit. Secular dictators may have been able to enforce some decent policies but, since they ruled through repression, their policies were discredited and created a backlash that surfaced when society opens up.

Just as the French and Russian revolutions did not 'succeed' in creating stable, progressive governments in the short run, Arab democracies have struggled. One can only hope that things improve over time and that the backlashes, frustrations and contradictions created by repressive rule will be replaced with progress as people learn to deal with their societies' problems.

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I don't know the logic, but empirical evidence suggests that Islamic fundamentalist government... JVS Mar 2013 #1
Arundhati Roy is saying similar things... HiPointDem Mar 2013 #2
Why do you think it is? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #3
That's an interesting question and I don't have an answer. I've gotten this far: HiPointDem Mar 2013 #5
Because the Neocons in think tanks are the ones who were too stupid to teach at Chicago? Recursion Mar 2013 #23
Perhaps because The Straight Story Mar 2013 #4
When Saddam left the dollar for payment for oil he sealed his fate and that of Iraq Fumesucker Mar 2013 #8
Good point and thanks for reminding me of that (nt) The Straight Story Mar 2013 #9
yes, that's part of it but I think it's more than a coincidence that so many NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #11
Arrogance and a limited understanding of the dynamics of the region. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2013 #6
I doubt it. Because they keep doing the same thing, despite the example of repeated HiPointDem Mar 2013 #7
perpetual war, which is good for govt and bankers NoMoreWarNow Mar 2013 #10
It is human nature that people do not like living under repressive kings/dictators. pampango Mar 2013 #12
most of humanity lived under repressive dictators for most of history. and the repressive HiPointDem Mar 2013 #17
We supported Mubarak for decades and Egyptians showed they were quite ready to overthrow him. pampango Mar 2013 #26
Good points. We'll have to see the what the outcome is like. stevenleser Mar 2013 #21
"unpredictable democratic governments" Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #35
Follow the money - Saudi Arabia gains. Who do you think owns many multinational oil corps along leveymg Mar 2013 #13
So you're saying U.S. polititians are overthrowing secular governments in the Middle East UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #15
i think he's saying the us is hand-in-glove with the saudis to stabilize SA HiPointDem Mar 2013 #18
Essentially, yes, we are viewed by the Saudis as hired mercenaries. Useful, but only to a point. leveymg Mar 2013 #22
I've been reading these comments for a few years now. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #14
Part of it is their Cold War mindset of the neocons JHB Mar 2013 #16
That's an interesting theory. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #20
See the Wesley Clark interviews in this thread... JHB Mar 2013 #25
Whatever it gains by keeping America Fundamentalist Jesus. nt valerief Mar 2013 #19
To weaken them, basically. "Divide and rule". It's quite old. bemildred Mar 2013 #24
From what I read about Egypt, the Islamists provided a social safety net Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2013 #27
Well said. Dictators (and their foreign supporters) in the region have created the Islamist pampango Mar 2013 #32
"It's all the Republicans' fault." AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #28
Because democracies are inherently unstable... Wounded Bear Mar 2013 #29
Continued instability and war, which feeds the MIC /nt demwing Mar 2013 #30
You're assuming. atreides1 Mar 2013 #31
I do not know what the gambit is all about Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #33
Economic hegemony Cal Carpenter Mar 2013 #34
they are only interested in creating chaos in secular governments (including the US) librechik Mar 2013 #36
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