General Discussion

pnwmom

(110,233 posts)

136. You still haven't explained why this wouldn't fall within the protection of

Wed Feb 1, 2012, 06:49 PM

Feb 2012

Colorado's Good Samaritan law, which allows anyone to give medical help, without fear of liability, in case of an emergency. Any one of the listed signs below could indicate an emergency -- including trouble talking, struggling to breathe, or breathing hunched over.

Do you really think the student should be EXPELLED for trying to help? Even if there might have been time to wait for 911 help to come?

http://www.pedipress.com/pdfs/School%20Emer%20Guide%203.2.pdf

Asthma Emergency Guide
an assessment tool for teachers, aides and coaches “Rule of Nine”

DANGER SIGNS: Call 911 if you see any ONE of the following:
• Trouble walking or talking
• Child is struggling to breathe
• Lips or tips of fingers are gray or blue
• Peak flow less than 50% of predicted or personal best
• Child is breathing hunched over
After calling 911, call the office and tell them to contact a parent.

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2 students may be expelled over inhaler. [View all] Justice wanted Feb 2012 OP

Yup, your last sentence hit the nail on the head Scootaloo Feb 2012 #1

I love zero tolerance sharp_stick Feb 2012 #2

you teach them to go get help. get the nurse, a teacher or call 911 leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #35

Yeah that would have sharp_stick Feb 2012 #39

Neither are all other Good Samaritans. pnwmom Feb 2012 #161

And if they dont, you dont use your brains you just expell them. rhett o rick Feb 2012 #169

ridiculous bluebendphoto Feb 2012 #3

9 hours a week! Sanity Claws Feb 2012 #181

There are a couple of issues here Warpy Feb 2012 #4

+1 redqueen Feb 2012 #7

It said nothing of the girl going to the hospital ONLY to the Nurse's office. My thought she was Justice wanted Feb 2012 #8

Then this is doubly insane Warpy Feb 2012 #76

. rhett o rick Feb 2012 #173

The rules change about sharing prescription meds when someone isn't breathing. Capitalocracy Feb 2012 #12

She wasn't having an asthma attack; the other girl just thought she was muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #79

How do you know she wasn't? pnwmom Feb 2012 #162

Because the article states she doesn't have asthma muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #163

My husband and I were told by two different asthma specialists pnwmom Feb 2012 #165

OK, but other doctors don't say they have to wait until they witness an attack muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #172

Test results might be negative, too. pnwmom Feb 2012 #174

Sharing prescription meds is a huge no no. The girl could have died. So there needs to be some yellowcanine Feb 2012 #19

Asthma attacks can kill. Even a first asthma attack can kill. pnwmom Feb 2012 #164

I was lucky to be educated by the WWII generation. They were tsuki Feb 2012 #72

+ 1 Saphire Feb 2012 #111

+1 HuckleB Feb 2012 #96

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." --Elie Wiesel nt sudopod Feb 2012 #5

This is to show that it's more important to punish a student for making an error CreekDog Feb 2012 #6

"Crites suffered an allergic reaction to the inhaler and had to visit the school nurse" jberryhill Feb 2012 #9

You clearly don't practice law or medicine jeff47 Feb 2012 #15

Good Samaritan statutes do not cover gross negligence or recklessness jberryhill Feb 2012 #17

Yes, that's what the tackling example was about jeff47 Feb 2012 #110

Here's the Colorado statute. pnwmom Feb 2012 #175

"The medicines in inhalers aren't that dangerous. You can tell ... friend wasn't even hospitalized." yellowcanine Feb 2012 #21

And a severe allergic reaction would have required at least seeing a doctor if not hospitalization jeff47 Feb 2012 #112

You have this correct. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #166

But the question is, is suspending both girls a reasonable response to their well-intended actions? pnwmom Feb 2012 #16

I agree. Intent is the key here, as it is in all questions of crime stevenleser Feb 2012 #64

And Colorado, like many states, has a Good Samaritan law, pnwmom Feb 2012 #82

And still, some people who wonder why I have zero respect for the American education bureaucracy... Journeyman Feb 2012 #10

When my younger son was in school, he experienced zero tolerance regimes Jack Rabbit Feb 2012 #11

American schools are the nation's training ground for fascism. provis99 Feb 2012 #13

+1 nt laundry_queen Feb 2012 #66

There is a very easy way to fight bullshit like this Drale Feb 2012 #14

You can have pretty bad reactions to albuterol Jennicut Feb 2012 #18

Normally I don't agree with sharing drugs either. But given the facts in the situation I have Justice wanted Feb 2012 #20

beana didnt have asthma and the other girl is not a doctor leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #27

I don't remember any kind of test to see if I was allergic before I was prescribed albuterol Capitalocracy Feb 2012 #22

thats speculation but if a doctor gave it to her and she had a reaction the school wouldnt b liabel leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #29

The Good Samaritan law would protect the student and thus the school from liability. pnwmom Feb 2012 #185

The legal defense is necessity. Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2012 #23

And Colorado has a Good Samaritan law. Why should a child be subject to consequences pnwmom Feb 2012 #84

DRUGGGZ!! DRUGGZZ!! ZERO FUCKING TOLERANCE!!! DRUUUGGGGZZZZ!!!!!! Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #24

Maybe he would sentence them to community service Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2012 #54

Too bad we don't have zero tolenance to banksta gangsta fraud. We've tsuki Feb 2012 #75

[perhaps it didnt happen in front of any teacher and she's not asthmatic leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #25

But what happens if you are on the street and you see someone is about to step in front of Justice wanted Feb 2012 #26

we arent talking about 2 hypothetical people were talking about children leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #30

The adult in charge was not around. And what does one do if they can help when the parmedics Justice wanted Feb 2012 #33

Correction. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #38

BUT they didn't react to someone having Respritory destress. Justice wanted Feb 2012 #40

Describe in detail her respiratory distress. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #42

The girl who owns the inhaler has Asthma and have seen people in distress with breathing problems Justice wanted Feb 2012 #44

I have lupus and know the symptoms. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #45

Now you are comparing apples to oranges! You are talking about a illness and a LIFE THREATENING Justice wanted Feb 2012 #51

I also know the symptoms of a heart attack. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #53

I would hope that if you know the symptoms of a heart attack and someone is displaying the Justice wanted Feb 2012 #55

So I could give them some of my nitro pills if I see someone short of breath? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #56

OMG you are IMPOSSIBLE I would think that if the girl had died the people would have realize Justice wanted Feb 2012 #58

Just because you are "trying" does not make it the right thing to do. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #60

That is YOUR OPINION! IF I had a daughter in that same situation in that same situation I Justice wanted Feb 2012 #63

I would most certainly blame the school for not supervising the use of medications. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #65

AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES YOU DIFFERNENT FROM ME! YOU SEE BLACK AND WHITE I SEE SHADES Justice wanted Feb 2012 #70

You seem agitated. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #80

I just can't stand stupid! Justice wanted Feb 2012 #81

I'm only trying to help. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #83

NO you are not helping. You are trying to push your point of view on me. Justice wanted Feb 2012 #88

No. Actually you're not trying to help DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2012 #146

Do you see the world you want? HuckleB Feb 2012 #109

Lupus is a chronic condition, not an emergency. pnwmom Feb 2012 #105

Lupus can be an emergency. Trust me. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #106

Okay, so would you use your Epi-pen on someone who had had a bee sting pnwmom Feb 2012 #120

What if I didn't know if they had been stung? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #124

You didn't answer the question. What if you knew a person had been stung, pnwmom Feb 2012 #140

Apples and oranges. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #145

He needed a Good Samaritan to give him the Heimlich. pnwmom Feb 2012 #147

We had no clue what was going on. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #149

that isnt what happen breana had an allergic reaction an still made it to the nurse leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #43

No. If her airways were closing up, the albuterol could have opened them pnwmom Feb 2012 #113

Or it could have masked a much more serious condition. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #114

Colorado has a Good Samaritan law, so if this girl offered her inhaler to someone in the park pnwmom Feb 2012 #87

I am glad to see DU is back to opposing zero tolerance joeglow3 Feb 2012 #28

a kid pissing him/herself is better then the kid killing his/her friend because leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #32

I would rather a child try and help another child than stand by and do nothing. Standing there Justice wanted Feb 2012 #34

She was having a headache so I gave her my....nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #37

Let's put you in that situation. You see someone having problems breathing. You call for help but Justice wanted Feb 2012 #46

Rewind there. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #49

That's right. All children are taught to do emergency trachs at the age of seven. n/t backscatter712 Feb 2012 #61

Probably seen more trachs on TV than pharmacological knowledge. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #62

That would have worked except for one thing. A Simple Game Feb 2012 #86

Use the pen and then the empty tube. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #91

lets not go doddering off into hypothetical land. that isnt what happened leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #71

A headache isn't an emergency. An asthma attack can be. Are you opposed to Good Samaritan laws? pnwmom Feb 2012 #90

A "headache" could be an aneurysm. An "asthma attack" can be a cough. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #95

An asthma attack can lead to death, and you weren't there, so you have no way pnwmom Feb 2012 #104

No, but we know 1 had time to take it out and give it to the other girl. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #107

Are you operating under the delusion that she doesn't know how to use her own inhaler? (nt) jeff47 Feb 2012 #117

Does the fact that it took a minute or two mean it wasn't an emergency? pnwmom Feb 2012 #118

wth is wrong with people here you act like there are only 2 choices,feed the sufferer with w/ meds leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #48

So, intent has zero bearing on a crime? joeglow3 Feb 2012 #69

there was no crime commited here. leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #74

And those rules threaten the safety of children joeglow3 Feb 2012 #85

The zero tolerance rule conflicts with the state's Good Samaritan law. pnwmom Feb 2012 #92

Another story about idiot school admins. chrisa Feb 2012 #31

I can totally understand the schools reaction. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #36

Why? The state's Good Samaritan law says that a person can't be held liable pnwmom Feb 2012 #94

This wasn't an emergency. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #97

How do you know? She was appearing to be having an asthma attack, pnwmom Feb 2012 #102

The one girl had time to grab an inhaler and give it to the other girl and I assume advise how Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #103

They're nowhere near that hard to use jeff47 Feb 2012 #119

I have 2. First blow out until your lungs are empty. Then breathe deep. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #122

So in your mind "exhale first" would take an hour to explain? (nt) jeff47 Feb 2012 #127

About 5 seconds to get out, 15 seconds to explain, 5 seconds to hand over... Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #130

And what could a teacher do? A student could die in five minutes from an untreated asthma attack pnwmom Feb 2012 #155

LOL. Thank goodness she acted. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #168

Our middle school shares a nurse with two other schools. pnwmom Feb 2012 #176

What good are they? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #177

A student with an inhaler might be of more use than a nurse doing her shift pnwmom Feb 2012 #178

Try opening a DU thread saying that you are having strange symptoms and ask Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #179

How do you know kids weren't calling for a teacher? And what could a teacher have done pnwmom Feb 2012 #125

They did not claim to be. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #128

We don't know that she even had an allergic reaction -- just that she felt better later. pnwmom Feb 2012 #134

Sure we do. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #135

You still haven't explained why this wouldn't fall within the protection of pnwmom Feb 2012 #136

I would say it falls under gross negligence if I was a lawyer. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #137

But the Colorado Good Samaritan law doesn't require any medical training pnwmom Feb 2012 #138

So you can do anything if it's to try to help? I doubt it works that way. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #139

Read the law. I've posted it here in several places. pnwmom Feb 2012 #141

I am not a lawyer. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #142

I wouldn't believe you if you said that -- or I'd think you were a nut case. pnwmom Feb 2012 #143

But I would still be a good samaritan. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #144

I think, if these cases were to go to a jury, pnwmom Feb 2012 #148

Who knows? I would have to see cases where the law was invoked/invalidated. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #150

Or she could have felt her heart racing FloridaJudy Feb 2012 #192

no and neither were you. is that what was happening? since you werent there you dont know leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #186

Baloney. HuckleB Feb 2012 #98

"Zero Tolerance" is for idiots. Iggo Feb 2012 #41

Zero Tolerance is for those that can't (won't) think independently... truebrit71 Feb 2012 #47

zero tolerance is for schools that dont want to be sued b/c of the actions of kids. leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #50

Zero Tolerence is what is wrong with this country TODAY! We are teaching people not to care for Justice wanted Feb 2012 #52

no thats not it. we're teaching kids to let doctors and emts adminster drugs leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #77

Right. I'll just chalk you in with the folks who are cheering for wrecking the lives of two children backscatter712 Feb 2012 #59

their lives are hardly wrecked. although if alyssa killed breana but doing this their lives would be leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #68

How is zero tolerance protecting the school from being sued? Iggo Feb 2012 #78

Zero-tolerance is what lets them get sued. jeff47 Feb 2012 #121

There's a special place in hell for the inventor of ZTP's Initech Feb 2012 #57

anyone consider that the breathing problem could be a lie,kids do that. leftyohiolib Feb 2012 #67

OH Brother Justice wanted Feb 2012 #73

I don't know of anyone who uses albuterol to get high. FloridaJudy Feb 2012 #93

+1000. n/t pnwmom Feb 2012 #101

Why would you assume that the kids are lying? I've had three kids with inhalers and nobody pnwmom Feb 2012 #99

Wow are you desperate to justify this. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2012 #123

This mindset is why our schools are so much like prisons... backscatter712 Feb 2012 #153

Occam called; he has a few words for you about how you're treating his razors. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2012 #158

Don't Americans tell people with prescription drugs not to share them? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #89

Would you say the same thing if someone's throat was closing up after a bee sting pnwmom Feb 2012 #100

Not being legally liable does not mean that it's a good idea muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #108

Suppose it wasn't a "good idea." Do you agree with the principal's recommendation to expel her pnwmom Feb 2012 #116

Expelling them seems too draconian muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #129

Then we agree on the bottom line. pnwmom Feb 2012 #132

Exactly. HuckleB Feb 2012 #133

Don't your children occasionally disobey you? jeff47 Feb 2012 #126

Several DUers seemed to be saying the girl did a good thing muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #131

I can't speak for everyone here BUT I am saying in my opinion in this ONE case This was a case Justice wanted Feb 2012 #151

And I think you're wrong to say girls should attempt to diagnose problems and give drugs muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #167

I can't speak to what a web forum does I CAN speak to what people should do if they physically Justice wanted Feb 2012 #180

I think the girl's intentions were good, and that she shouldn't be punished pnwmom Feb 2012 #152

Try reading more carefully jeff47 Feb 2012 #187

And yet the thread starter is reiterating that it was the right thing to do muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #188

Again, you need to read more carefullly jeff47 Feb 2012 #189

Which seems to prove my point muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #190

And we also tell people that if someone is having a medical emergency pnwmom Feb 2012 #184

when my kids were in school, they couldn't Saphire Feb 2012 #115

That is a very stupid policy that medical professionals want schools to change. pnwmom Feb 2012 #157

Keeping rescue inhalers and epipens under lock and key is staggeringly stupid. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2012 #160

This is exactly why Colorado and other states have Good Samaritan laws: pnwmom Feb 2012 #154

This thread's exactly as depressing as I figured it would be from the headline. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2012 #156

What about it is depressing? HuckleB Feb 2012 #159

The stack of "the school is right to punish these students harshly!" ranters Posteritatis Feb 2012 #170

I think there is only one, maybe two. HuckleB Feb 2012 #171

Rather than focusing on whether or not it is right to expel the two girls, why not try . . . markpkessinger Feb 2012 #182

You suggest a very reasonable approach that is age and developmentally appropriate. pnwmom Feb 2012 #183

Something along those lines makes the most sense octothorpe Feb 2012 #191