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62. I didn't ask Google for its sources. I asked you.

Reply to cbayer (Reply #60)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 07:26 PM

Mar 2013

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Is it unethical for a doctor to refuse Medicaid and Medicare patients? [View all] Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 OP

The local Lutheran church KT2000 Mar 2013 #1

Why would they? MrSlayer Mar 2013 #2

Most doctors are half a million dollars in debt when they come out of med school bubbayugga Mar 2013 #7

Of course not. MrSlayer Mar 2013 #8

I totally agree with you... tallahasseedem Mar 2013 #36

They work for... onyourleft Mar 2013 #22

90 hours a week divided by $65,000 per year IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #98

Health care, Education, and Justice are the three modern necessities and should be socialized. n/t Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #38

Average is actually $150k... MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #102

One of the docs I work with can't afford an iPhone. bubbayugga Mar 2013 #133

That's possible -- if you specialize and if you have to pay for your JDPriestly Mar 2013 #137

The average may be $150,000, but it depends. JDPriestly Mar 2013 #136

I know of a doctor who practiced in Canada for a while. antigone382 Mar 2013 #37

People should go into medicine out of a desire to help people, not to get rich or die trying. n/t Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #39

Mechanics should go into the field out of a desire to help people. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #99

No one said that anyone should not be paid, I think you are capable of understanding that. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #124

TWENTY-THREE YEARS of training means they will need to be compensated IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #161

Apparently I was wrong about your capacity to understand. So, let's do this the DU way, Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #175

We will simply have to agree that we both think the other is IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #177

It's not the math, it's your erroneous assumptions behind he math. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #178

We both think the other person's assumptions IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #179

If I had made any assumptions you might be right, but I haven't and you're not. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #180

if the Medicare Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #3

I agree 1337kr3w Mar 2013 #4

Why would doctors costs to provide service differ? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #5

overhead costs vary and Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #6

My doctor... sendero Mar 2013 #9

I don't think so customerserviceguy Mar 2013 #10

Arbitration boards are there just to protect the industries that will own them MattBaggins Mar 2013 #20

In many cases, yes customerserviceguy Mar 2013 #101

Physicians for a National Health Program OneGrassRoot Mar 2013 #11

Before my physician father retired from practice, no_hypocrisy Mar 2013 #12

I have Tricare standard littlewolf Mar 2013 #13

Refuse urgent care when on hand? Yes. As a general business policy? No. Recursion Mar 2013 #14

No Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #15

If it is because of the money, then yes, it is. nt bemildred Mar 2013 #16

Living in NYC I always find these OPs strange because Medicare/aid is accepted almost everywhere JaneyVee Mar 2013 #17

I have seen it on Long Island HockeyMom Mar 2013 #65

My mother's doctor charges something like $200/year to accept Medicare MiniMe Mar 2013 #18

I'dI'd imagine it is quite unethical for a doctor, or anyone else to imply... LanternWaste Mar 2013 #19

No, it's not. cbayer Mar 2013 #21

That's a wonderfully accurate example of Burke's truism LanternWaste Mar 2013 #23

Good people are trying to do something all the time. cbayer Mar 2013 #33

Do you work to lose money? nt WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #79

Because he/she has a government licensed and enforced monopoly to practice his trade, that's why. nt bemildred Mar 2013 #31

S/he also has an obligation to pay the employees, rent, taxes, malpractice insurance, cbayer Mar 2013 #32

S/He has many obligations, so what? So do we all. bemildred Mar 2013 #43

So would you take a job where you didn't get paid? cbayer Mar 2013 #52

"When the ACC kicks in, we will see a primary care physician shortage..." More speculation? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #54

Not speculative at all. cbayer Mar 2013 #55

Soo...what are your sources? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #57

Just google primary care physician shortage. cbayer Mar 2013 #60

I didn't ask Google for its sources. I asked you. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #62

I don't play this game. Nice talking to you. cbayer Mar 2013 #64

Here, I did your job for you... Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #67

Lol, you found the single article on the entire first search page that takes this position. cbayer Mar 2013 #69

The issue here is that it would actually be better to spread medicaid patients over more doctors. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #75

Physicians relentless advocate for better funding. cbayer Mar 2013 #167

There are numerous sources guardian Mar 2013 #113

Show me where it demonstrates that the new healthcare laws will cause physician shortages. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #115

Frankly guardian Mar 2013 #117

You can't accuse me of being unconvinced when you do not try to convince me. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #118

A few of literally tens of thousands of similar articles guardian Mar 2013 #121

Was that really so difficult? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #126

are you convinced yet? nt guardian Mar 2013 #127

Yes I am. I did not ask for sources as a joke. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #129

my apologies guardian Mar 2013 #131

They can quit, I don't care. bemildred Mar 2013 #58

They do quit. Retirement rates are higher and retirement ages lower. cbayer Mar 2013 #63

Good. Get the deadwood out of the way. bemildred Mar 2013 #66

It doesn't come from the government. It comes from the state medical boards and is enforced cbayer Mar 2013 #72

Are state medical boards not part of the government? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #76

No, they are not. They are independent non-profit agencies. cbayer Mar 2013 #89

Yes, they are actually. ""The Medical Board of California is a state government agency..." Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #90

I stand corrected. cbayer Mar 2013 #164

The state is the government? bemildred Mar 2013 #77

Yeah that's smart. guardian Mar 2013 #122

The problem is that I have no reason to care. bemildred Mar 2013 #151

How very nice of you guardian Mar 2013 #154

Being snotty about it won't change my attitude. bemildred Mar 2013 #155

A question quakerboy Mar 2013 #85

Poor? None. Took no salary for periods of time? Forced to spend less time with each patient? cbayer Mar 2013 #165

I know a doctor who... WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #80

Do provide more anecdotes to support your views, Mr. Science. bemildred Mar 2013 #82

It's my cousin WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #84

I'm not saying you are lying, I'm saying it's anecdotal evidence. bemildred Mar 2013 #87

Is payment lower than cost an actual problem? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #49

I'm not clear on what you are asking here. cbayer Mar 2013 #50

Does Medicare and Medicaid offer such low payments that doctors make no money? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #51

Absolutely true for Medicaid. It often costs primary care doctors money to care for these patients. cbayer Mar 2013 #53

Quit, Go on strike. We look forward to it. nt bemildred Mar 2013 #61

We who? You aren't going to look forward to it if you need medical care while it's happening. cbayer Mar 2013 #68

All of us who think it is unethical for MDs to turn people away because of "cost". bemildred Mar 2013 #70

Well, good luck with finding one. cbayer Mar 2013 #74

I'm on Medicare, I already can't find one. bemildred Mar 2013 #78

I would suggest that that is exactly why you should care about their whining. cbayer Mar 2013 #166

I'm busy today, and I'd like to continue this conversation bemildred Mar 2013 #172

It's been a good conversation. cbayer Mar 2013 #173

Thank you, I'll chew that over and try to say something constructive. nt bemildred Mar 2013 #174

I think our God Mode designs pretty much coincide. bemildred Mar 2013 #181

I think we are on the same page. cbayer Mar 2013 #182

When you agree to work a 40 hour job for free guardian Mar 2013 #116

I can complain any time I want to. You don't decide that. bemildred Mar 2013 #150

I thought they were required to have 10% of the practice BainsBane Mar 2013 #132

That has to be a state based rule. In most states, you wouldn't even be cbayer Mar 2013 #163

Same as many other questions of ethics... NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #24

I think it is. Medicare and Medicaid will only pay out so much. That is what keeps cost down. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #25

My old apartments did worse than a doctor. MFM008 Mar 2013 #26

I tried to see a doctor that does not take CASH, believe it or not. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #27

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to decline cash payment. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #28

Don't think it's slowed him down. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #34

I don't think so. They have a right to determine method of payment. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #42

Hmmm...it appears federal tender law agrees with you. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #47

The bigger issue Sgent Mar 2013 #103

Take out an ad in your local newspapers, name the doctors if that is possible. nt bluestate10 Mar 2013 #29

Or talk to the doctors that do take Medicare and Medicaid and see whether they are bluestate10 Mar 2013 #35

I have asked myself this question many times. Sadiedog Mar 2013 #30

Indeed. Llewlladdwr Mar 2013 #40

Doctors should be paid. We all have to make a living. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #41

Then there won't be any doctors. Who would pay half a million dollars... Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #45

Right. American doctors are just scraping by. WinkyDink Mar 2013 #71

They earn their $, though. It's not easy being a doctor. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #138

Don't forget that doctors guardian Mar 2013 #130

That's true. I have no problem with people making money, if they earn it honestly. I wish they would Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #139

Yes. WinkyDink Mar 2013 #44

No. They have a right to determine their rates & the paperwork Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #46

I did not ask if it was legal. I asked if it was ethical. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #48

And I answered. No. They have a right to determine their rates. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #56

So they have an ethical right to deny treatment because they want more money. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #59

You are blaming the wrong people ... slipslidingaway Mar 2013 #104

I blame the system and the doctors. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #107

I blame the system more than the docs... slipslidingaway Mar 2013 #134

Yes. That's their profession. I don't work for free, either. They have staff to pay for... Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #140

Best hope you don't live to rue your words. WinkyDink Mar 2013 #73

It wouldn't change anything. It's not unethical not to work for free. I don't work for free, either. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #141

Is it ethical for someone who's intelligent and rich to go into Engineering rather than Medicine? cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #81

Yes I believe it is unethical for you to not treat medicaid and medicare patients. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #83

Be glad I don't treat Medicaid and Medicare patients. Be very glad. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #86

So you were falsely leading me to believe you were a doctor... Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #88

Beggin' your pardon... I didn't falsely lead you to anything at all. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #91

You lead everyone to believe you were a doctor denying treatment. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #94

well I am happy to know you are a trash truck driver. Your job is just as important as a doctor. southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #95

Is it unethical for a trash truck driver not to work for free at least some of the time? Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #143

Why? He is a wage earner and didn't go to college. He didn't take a Hippocratic oath yet if your southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #152

I have a Bachelors in Vocational Education from Long Beach State. n/t cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #156

That is wonderful. What's your point? Just wondering. I'm not trying to down people who have a southernyankeebelle Mar 2013 #157

If medicaid and medicare don't cover the treatment for such patients, then no, it's not unethical. X_Digger Mar 2013 #92

Doctor's offices should have nothing to do with money. RedCappedBandit Mar 2013 #93

Exactly, their hand is forced, especially with the cost .... slipslidingaway Mar 2013 #97

No they have loans to pay ... slipslidingaway Mar 2013 #96

The Hippocratic Oath makes it unethical. jazzimov Mar 2013 #100

No, it doesn't. The oath says that the medicine they practice must be done ethically and honestly. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #144

I think it is. What ever happen to "First do no harm"? Lady Freedom Returns Mar 2013 #105

Exactly why we need a not for profit system, but the Dems blocked any discussion ... slipslidingaway Mar 2013 #119

"do no harm" to those you treat. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #146

Is it unethical for grocery stores to refuse customers paying with food stamps? DBoon Mar 2013 #106

Yes, it is unethical to refuse food stamps. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #108

Is the grocer reimbursed for less than 100% of the price of the purchase? tritsofme Mar 2013 #128

I just got turned down in THREE different places for residential treatment cliffordu Mar 2013 #109

That's fucked. MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #110

True, that, Manny - cliffordu Mar 2013 #112

Good luck! MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #123

Yep - getting more crowded by the day. cliffordu Mar 2013 #125

It is usually more likely the doctor is actually losing money for each Medicaid/Medicare patient. guardian Mar 2013 #111

My daughter will be about $300,000 in debt by the time she becomes a doctor. Xithras Mar 2013 #114

Amen to that Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #159

I think many wish they could... Don't shoot the messenger but ecstatic Mar 2013 #120

My doctor gave up his practice at the end of last year. Sen. Walter Sobchak Mar 2013 #135

This has been a problem ever since Medicare started. SheilaT Mar 2013 #142

No, not unethical to demand a living wage pediatricmedic Mar 2013 #145

Mosy physicians in the US are no longer in a position to individually make such a decision. David__77 Mar 2013 #147

Is it unethical for any person not to help someone who can't pay? BlueCheese Mar 2013 #148

Only if it's unethical for you, personally, not to meet strangers' health-care costs singlehanded. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #149

Amen. n/t Phentex Mar 2013 #153

If they don't refuse, how the fuck are the doctors supposed to pay for their Maseratis? AngryAmish Mar 2013 #158

Response from an angrier Mennonite Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #160

You get it... Phentex Mar 2013 #162

Amen! I did the math up above in post #161. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #168

I found it, that was quite realistic Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #169

I think you hit the nail on the head with your observation about "rich doctors" -- IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #170

Me personally, I think it is low class and wrong. Rex Mar 2013 #171

Anyone interested in making a list of DU's most consistent reich-wing defenders Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #176