General Discussion

Recursion

(56,582 posts) Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:43 AM Mar 2013

Donglegate, and why we don't have more women in tech [View all]

So, my own thread went nowhere, but this thread got quite a lot of traffic. This is linked as background.

I bring this up as a feminist point because this is driving me fucking insane. This is not about the fired Python developer. Nobody cares about him. How can I tell? Because the company that fired him has received no threats.

Read the background links above, if you want; if not, take this as the story: there was a man and a woman. He behaved unwisely, and she did too. Both lost their jobs. He now has a kickstarter charity to help him make ends meet until he finds a new job. She has random men threatening to rape and kill her.

(To further confuse things, the guy himself actually seems like a nice guy; he apologized in a very mature and tactful way to her.)

The simple fact is, whether we want to admit it or not, a woman who challenges the patriarchy exposes herself to huge risks. This is true whether her method of challenging it is wise or unwise.

I am a participant in the Python programming community so this is important to me. However ill-advised Adria's tweet was, it was the right thing to do in that it showed the disgusting underbelly of our own community. Shame on us.

169 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Donglegate, and why we don't have more women in tech [View all] Recursion Mar 2013 OP

The patriarchy is not some guys telling dongle jokes to each other. Kurska Mar 2013 #1

See? See? SEE WHAT YOU DID? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #15

have a glass of warm milk or something Whisp Mar 2013 #25

"Stroke"? That sounds an awful lot like a sexual innuendo. FOR SHAME! Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #27

Excellent lol.. but.. you forgot the word of the day in that rant.. opiate69 Mar 2013 #29

whatever, dude Whisp Mar 2013 #30

calmer than you are, dude. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #36

"Yeah, WAVING THE FUCKING DONGLE AROUND????!!!!" ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2013 #78

Which makes me wonder... opiate69 Mar 2013 #80

SCHEDULING OPIATE69 FOR ASS KICKING Skittles Mar 2013 #85

=-O opiate69 Mar 2013 #96

Do you use google calendar, or what? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #138

it's a living Skittles Mar 2013 #147

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #148

Just sos ya know, though.. I'm no switch, so I won't be paying lol opiate69 Mar 2013 #149

Call Dingell, I can see Dangle's Dongle Dangling. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #137

ok... I seriously laughed out loud.. the dogs are looking at me like I'm nuts opiate69 Mar 2013 #139

vagina Whisp Mar 2013 #130

that's funny as hell datasuspect Mar 2013 #39

el oh el pokerfan Mar 2013 #44

Fist bump. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #26

it'd be funny, if Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #28

We live in interesting times. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #31

Hell, I *live* in Portland, and I've always been sort of lukewarm on that show. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #37

Yes, that sketch was bang-on. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #42

If you buy it dinner first theKed Mar 2013 #76

"Well, if you want to make a donation, we'll have almost enough...." Electric Monk Mar 2013 #40

It's almost like the Matrix, isn't it? nt sylvi Mar 2013 #45

You entirely missed Recursion's point BainsBane Mar 2013 #65

Please explain to me how, exactly, what she did challenged the patriarchy. Kurska Mar 2013 #83

The point is about public reaction BainsBane Mar 2013 #87

They never once used the word "public reaction" in his/her post. There were two lines about it. Kurska Mar 2013 #94

It isn't justifying anything she did BainsBane Mar 2013 #104

He said she fought the patriarchy, how is that anything besides a justification or at least praise? Kurska Mar 2013 #113

Clearly it was partly about this incident BainsBane Mar 2013 #118

Yes I do think an employer would fire someone over a single remark I've seen it Kurska Mar 2013 #144

slandering a man BainsBane Mar 2013 #158

the worst thing in five years is not threats of rape and murder BainsBane Mar 2013 #159

When did I say you had said the worst thing I'd seen on here in five years? Kurska Mar 2013 #164

I don't think she is fighting the "patriarchy" FYI, she is just a self promoter trying to make money snooper2 Mar 2013 #167

Pretty horrible example. They're being treated differently because Marr Mar 2013 #2

Exactly! n/t RiffRandell Mar 2013 #7

Pretty much this. n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #8

You cant take sex out of it. quakerboy Mar 2013 #9

they do though. if they're gay or suspected of being gay, or in situations HiPointDem Mar 2013 #10

And my point is made quakerboy Mar 2013 #24

So your chief objection here is that she was theoretically threatened with rape? n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #38

what is "theoretically threatened with rape"? BainsBane Mar 2013 #66

No. It is my way of avoiding a definitive and possibly libelous statement. n't Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #81

and making clear BainsBane Mar 2013 #82

I think my words and meaning are clear and do not need your revision Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #111

Good luck theKed Mar 2013 #165

I certainly do the same thing myself at times. n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #166

You're not being a busybody to complain about an offensive comment said loudly enough Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #33

Oh, yes you are. Marr Mar 2013 #51

Oh, no you're not. He said it loudly enough in a crowd for others to hear. It's Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #63

But how she handled it is the whole point. Marr Mar 2013 #91

She handled it wrong. But that's not being a busybody, which means interfering in Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #100

yes, it's being a freaking busybody. Like a lady who calls the police because she heard her HiPointDem Mar 2013 #126

So, he said something loud enough to be overheard. Shame on him. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #129

But they violated the house rules in the Python conference. alp227 Mar 2013 #50

why the FUCK is everybody ignoring simple moral issues and bending over backwards to defend the guys redqueen Mar 2013 #55

It wasn't malicious when the guys made the penis joke and it wasn't malicious when she made the dkf Mar 2013 #154

My thoughts exactly brush Mar 2013 #105

she didn't 'challenge the patriarchy'. to equate his act (making a penis joke to a friend) with HiPointDem Mar 2013 #3

My former roomate is thinking of going to school for electronics FrodosPet Mar 2013 #19

People need to just learn to shut the fuck up. Generation_Why Mar 2013 #4

Small issues, like sexism, racism, misogyny? bhikkhu Mar 2013 #5

the jokes aren't why they're not going to get a job; management policies HiPointDem Mar 2013 #11

I don't think you understand bhikkhu Mar 2013 #18

I understand quite well; that culture is tolerated a/o encouraged by management or HiPointDem Mar 2013 #20

There are legitimate problems... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #84

It creates a hostile work environment BainsBane Mar 2013 #68

Oh boo hoo, a professional setting can actually have MANNERS! and STANDARDS!!! alp227 Mar 2013 #52

"they're way too far in adulthood to be making excuses." redqueen Mar 2013 #56

comparing a dongle joke to 'legitimate rape' is a stretch too far Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #150

I'm not surprised at all AnnieBW Mar 2013 #6

Everyone resents being talked down to, and everyone has been talked down HiPointDem Mar 2013 #12

eavesdropping on a conversation she wasn't a part of, taking someone's picture without permission, Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #13

Seems about the size of the whole deal to me. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #21

! opiate69 Mar 2013 #22

well said Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #41

My Wife is a Feminist who functions very well in the tech industry, doesn't take any shit, Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #43

It's not private when they were in a setting where EVERYONE ELSE could hear their shit. alp227 Mar 2013 #53

Really. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #57

Those guys are ADULTS. They should take responsibility for their behavior. alp227 Mar 2013 #59

I'm sorry, but a "Dongle" joke is not something to make a fucking Federal case over. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #60

What federal case? alp227 Mar 2013 #61

Seriously?? opiate69 Mar 2013 #77

The ONLY reason it is such is because of the trolls who retaliated against Richards. alp227 Mar 2013 #124

what part of "eavesdropping" isn't getting through? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #135

What about shutting up or at least keeping it down in a professional setting? alp227 Mar 2013 #140

Since by all accounts it was ONE Dongle joke Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #142

So what if Richards has ethical issues of her own? alp227 Mar 2013 #143

Joking about a "big dongle" to your buddy is not "immoral" Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #146

Well it depends. Everyone's got their own social standards. alp227 Mar 2013 #152

don't get me started on what I hear working all night in tech Skittles Mar 2013 #112

Joan of Kardashian is more like it ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2013 #67

Indeed. theKed Mar 2013 #74

Well if women are going to make dick jokes and then try to get men fired for doing the same... dkf Mar 2013 #14

I thought this was a good piece...posted from the thread you referenced. dkf Mar 2013 #16

She employed a bullying tactic and the social media genie turned on her. JVS Mar 2013 #17

yup. agreed La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #32

One thing that I'm curious about, as someone who doesn't use Twitter and has petronius Mar 2013 #23

honestly i dont get donglegate. i think public shaming for a private joke La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #34

Defending what she did is even crazier. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #93

i think i would defend it, if they were making genuinely hateful comments La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #103

Yeah, or if woman were part of the conversation and UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #115

I'm pretty sure she made some penis jokes at the same conference The Second Stone Mar 2013 #35

Most likely the tweet was sent to a trusted friend. alp227 Mar 2013 #54

the tweet was sent to her 10's of thousands of twitter followers. Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #151

What you've described is a text message The Second Stone Mar 2013 #169

My girlfriend can identify about half-a-dozen reasons why there aren't more women in high tech, Sen. Walter Sobchak Mar 2013 #46

she has a pattern of doing this, over and over again. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #48

CORRECT Skittles Mar 2013 #86

The real villain in this is the manager who wouldn't do his job Warpy Mar 2013 #47

Is it okay to post peoples' pictures on the internet without their consent, or isn't it? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #49

I do it all the time. We cheer it all the time here. Recursion Mar 2013 #101

If you are at a protest holding a sign, you are by definition asking for public attention. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #136

so true. nt La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #72

I am sure that's a part of it Nevernose Mar 2013 #58

Geez, as with anything, people should pick their battles wisely Vinnie From Indy Mar 2013 #62

i tend to agree. La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #69

Again: he has a kickstarter, she has death and rape threats Recursion Mar 2013 #64

Your point is well taken BainsBane Mar 2013 #70

yes, so that is clearly outrageous. the death and rape threats La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #71

Curious... theKed Mar 2013 #73

Others did Recursion Mar 2013 #75

Thanks. theKed Mar 2013 #79

No accusations? BainsBane Mar 2013 #90

shoo, stalker. theKed Mar 2013 #99

that was my point BainsBane Mar 2013 #107

Furthermore, theKed Mar 2013 #108

there was nothing vanity like about it. BainsBane Mar 2013 #119

Actually, I don't advocate taking the discussions out of my sight (not site) theKed Mar 2013 #123

No? Nothing to say about that? theKed Mar 2013 #131

for heaven's sake BainsBane Mar 2013 #133

Actually theKed Mar 2013 #134

Because she picked the shittiest venue to resolve a conflict and the inhabitants... JVS Mar 2013 #88

That she was stupid in putting the thing on Twitter is clear BainsBane Mar 2013 #89

That point is invalid because here on DU she didn't get threats or hatred. JVS Mar 2013 #92

the responses here exemplify perfectly BainsBane Mar 2013 #95

only if you dismiss disapproval for her actions as sexism JVS Mar 2013 #97

If you don't agree with everything every woman does UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #102

when people automatically blame a woman BainsBane Mar 2013 #106

And you can determine if she's been given no consideration how? JVS Mar 2013 #109

by reading the responses BainsBane Mar 2013 #110

and back to post 97 we go JVS Mar 2013 #114

not necessarily BainsBane Mar 2013 #120

You said yourself she was wrong in the way she handled it. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #141

Where is that Kickstarter link you speak of? 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2013 #98

Dongle jokes are not as bad as marketing types refering to engineers as nerds, geeks and techies FarCenter Mar 2013 #116

nerd is nothing like the N-word. nt La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #117

It is when technically clueless twenty something marketing blondes apply it to computer scientists FarCenter Mar 2013 #121

no, it's not. as far as i know computer scientists have never been lynched La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #122

OK, but they are still hugely insulting terms, and should never be used in a professional setting. FarCenter Mar 2013 #125

yeah being called fat is hugely insulting but its nothing like a racially loaded word La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #127

My better half is an engineer. MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #128

A guy in my neighborhood says he got mugged BainsBane Mar 2013 #153

The OP doesn't claim a single mugging MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #162

If one of these guys had grabbed her ass, asked her for sex, commented on her body, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #132

that would be assault BainsBane Mar 2013 #161

i'm not sure that 'it was the right thing to do' to tweet a pic. Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #145

This message was self-deleted by its author Sen. Walter Sobchak Mar 2013 #155

In my long career, I have witnessed and been subjected to quite a bit of Live and Learn Mar 2013 #156

Heaven help her if she ever gets a job with Oscar Meyer. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #157

I work in tech.. sendero Mar 2013 #160

My girlfriend takes it a step further, Sen. Walter Sobchak Mar 2013 #163

There's no indication that Ms Richards had a difficult teen or early 20's career FarCenter Mar 2013 #168