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bettyellen

(47,209 posts)

70. Critical analysis that her piece completely lacked context is nasty now? I think her

Sat Mar 23, 2013, 11:20 AM

Mar 2013

inability to label her own experiences being digitally penetrated when six years old as rape are truly significant here. Don't you?

She does not label her own experience as a child as rape- which is what it undoubtably was. Being a rape survivor doesn't give her permission to redefine rape for the rest of us. Her reluctance to call it what it is, sadly is probably what made her their ideal choice for this "edgy piece".

For the rest- I think "no means no" SHOULD be enough. I think we may have to use a standard of getting a yes though, when it comes to impairment. Now that we know lawyers will argue that when you cannot speak, then you didn't say no that is a problem.

And I do think that giving a yes- and getting one- IS the standard that society should strive for. Through awareness campaigns. I truly think we have to culturally shift towards that expectation to have a healthier society.

Legally speaking- the whole issue of any alcohol use nullifying every yes is messed up. I don't agree with that. However, I'm not seeing that men are being unfairly incarcerated when drunk women say yes. I'm seeing people argue that the Stuebenville victim was not impaired enough, and worse. So, I am a bit less concerned about that. Journalists who are loathe to admit in major media that a Dad sticking fingers in his daughter is rape- hell yes- that concerns me. Especially when dreck like that is brought here and passed off as valid in any way.

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My bad sex wasn�t rape [View all] XemaSab Mar 2013 OP

Statutory rape it was. MineralMan Mar 2013 #1

The incident in the OP was 30+ years ago Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #64

Actually, that makes it even more likely. MineralMan Mar 2013 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #198

Yeah it was gollygee Mar 2013 #69

No it isn't. Its quite legal in many states. phleshdef Mar 2013 #100

That's true, although those laws use different numbers of years. MineralMan Mar 2013 #104

The time frame would've been the 1980s. phleshdef Mar 2013 #107

I'm curious about your personal opinion on this. redqueen Mar 2013 #110

I think it depends on the people involved. phleshdef Mar 2013 #111

I think a 15 year old should have the right to explore his/her sexuality cali Mar 2013 #114

In Idaho, I believe a 15 year old is off limits to anyone 18 or older. brewens Mar 2013 #132

But not in many European countries, or until very recently in Canada. Jackpine Radical Mar 2013 #133

you might check out the countries that are that young. seabeyond Mar 2013 #134

I was raped when I was 11 and there were many things I did that were wrong angstlessk Mar 2013 #2

you were 11 ? how old were the rapists ? JI7 Mar 2013 #4

grown men, one had several children angstlessk Mar 2013 #5

yeah, because it would have just been ok for grown men to drink and have sex with 16 year olds JI7 Mar 2013 #10

that may be the age of consent in Virginia at the time? angstlessk Mar 2013 #13

what ended up happening to them ? JI7 Mar 2013 #21

They went to jail..and some years later when I was working in retail angstlessk Mar 2013 #24

Many, many men claim it's natural and normal, and even argue that it should be legal. redqueen Mar 2013 #28

Gulp. I'll make the claim that it isn't necessarily harmful cali Mar 2013 #88

my rapist was never punished either. sigmasix Mar 2013 #125

I can't believe what I just read superpatriotman Mar 2013 #129

just to clarify dsc Mar 2013 #32

An 11 yr old is incapable of making proper judgments. That's why they're called children. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #8

very well said La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #86

Interesting article. LittleBlue Mar 2013 #3

it has nothing to do with so-called "puritanism" BainsBane Mar 2013 #7

The article is in response to the Girls episode LittleBlue Mar 2013 #9

Good lord. Supposedly educated twenty somethings consent to that shit? alphafemale Mar 2013 #95

This woman appears to be pushing an agenda. redqueen Mar 2013 #12

Did the "dreck" hit a nerve, perchance? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #19

dreck, because she's so very dishonest by omitting her prior history of sexual abuse and acting out bettyellen Mar 2013 #33

You're making nasty statements about what this woman has said around being an abuse survivor? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #61

Critical analysis that her piece completely lacked context is nasty now? I think her bettyellen Mar 2013 #70

Okay- here's what I'm saying. You're talking, it seems, about something she wrote in a diff. piece Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #138

yeah, I think she left out details and context in this article and that's why it's BS flame bait bettyellen Mar 2013 #148

Forgive my noob showing but how do Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #127

"New"? Really? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #139

Thanks for your reply. nt Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #140

Sure. Maybe you can answer a question for me. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #150

Why, yes it is. (was actually) nt Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #168

So you acknowledge that you've been banned from DU so many times that you need to proxy your IP. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #173

I would never, ever admit to such a thing. nt Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #174

You don't need to, you admit it in the comments of your blog. Just now you admitted that's you Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #177

If you say so Warren. nt Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #178

Okay, shall we read the entire thing? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #179

It's been great fun sparring with you, Warren and Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #182

Also - let's not hog this thread shall we? nt Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #184

Right. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #185

Lol! Thanks 'n good-night! nt Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #188

you blogged about being banned from DU last year. So either you've been here before, or Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #186

Warren.. Upton Mar 2013 #180

Yeah, that was my alert. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #181

Don't blame you.. Upton Mar 2013 #187

No, turns out that was another repeat disruptor, dude from Canada with a penchant for going off the Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #189

Message auto-removed Sargasso Sea Mar 2013 #194

Your previous times here, you spoke of "FAABs","Womyn-born-womyn", "gynergy vampires", and the rest. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #201

Thank you, Skinner. Jamastiene Mar 2013 #202

Seconded. I will stop derailing the thread, now. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #207

I appreciate you standing up to that transphobic troll. n/t Jamastiene Mar 2013 #208

No prob; Their shit was vile, and I've got a long memory. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #209

I doubt she's a she to begin with Whisp Mar 2013 #74

Yes, Anna March is a woman. tammywammy Mar 2013 #94

Legally, you were raped by the 19 year old. Statutory rape. You were not old enough to "allow it." Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #6

Not true. It depends on the laws of that state. See post #97. phleshdef Mar 2013 #103

No, it's true. Post 97 gives a few far out hypotheticals that don't even apply Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #136

You are wrong. phleshdef Mar 2013 #142

In Vermont it is not illegal for a 15 year old to have sex with a 19 year old cali Mar 2013 #116

Wow, I can't even finish reading that dreck. redqueen Mar 2013 #11

I have been avoiding all the rape posts..cause I think..I am over it... angstlessk Mar 2013 #16

It wasn't your fault. redqueen Mar 2013 #29

you Mom was wrong to blame you. I'm sorry you went through that. bettyellen Mar 2013 #34

Of course it wasn't your fault union_maid Mar 2013 #57

Take it from here, it was not your fault Hekate Mar 2013 #62

I'm so sorry you went through that. "Blame the victim" is always wrong. Bucky Mar 2013 #73

she is the writer who wrote- a little too wistfully- about her father's abuse. I don't think she bettyellen Mar 2013 #17

How the FUCK is she ... yeah, nevermind. redqueen Mar 2013 #31

I love this reply. Pity and heartfelt! bettyellen Mar 2013 #76

this horsehit has a NAMBLA feel all about it. Whisp Mar 2013 #82

Yep, and this is such a crowd-pleasing treatment of the subject. redqueen Mar 2013 #87

Yeah, I think she is being used by her publisher. Whatever she was trying to say is muddled up bettyellen Mar 2013 #92

+1 redqueen Mar 2013 #93

I read the Salon article about her abuse. tammywammy Mar 2013 #41

RAPE. she doesn't identify correctly digital penetration of a child as rape. soft-pedaling seems bettyellen Mar 2013 #43

Did you read it? redqueen Mar 2013 #113

What about a rectal temp on a baby The Flaming Red Head Mar 2013 #200

. myrna minx Mar 2013 #210

All I found was this and her piece about her "shazam boobs" redqueen Mar 2013 #108

Here: tammywammy Mar 2013 #109

Jesus. redqueen Mar 2013 #112

Yep: "Some lovers you just never forget." about her and Dad.... trigger warning.... bettyellen Mar 2013 #115

That article wasn't written by the author of the OP. The one at this link was written by Delaney smokey nj Mar 2013 #121

Anna March linked to that article and hers. tammywammy Mar 2013 #123

Are Anna March and Delaney Anderson the same person? smokey nj Mar 2013 #124

I'd think so. tammywammy Mar 2013 #126

yes they are. i was confused too, and saw she changed her name after that article. bettyellen Mar 2013 #172

Thanks. smokey nj Mar 2013 #195

ha ha, yeah. poor woman apparently still loves all the attention, then regrets getting it... bettyellen Mar 2013 #120

That gave me a shudder Hekate Mar 2013 #63

Ironically, she writes about her many unhappy years allowing men to use her..... bettyellen Mar 2013 #72

In confessional literature, there can be a rather fine line between... Hekate Mar 2013 #131

I hear the hooves of the cavalry charging in to support the OP... Whisp Mar 2013 #78

Bullshit. cali Mar 2013 #117

15 and 19 Texasgal Mar 2013 #14

Um, no, possibly not. Please see post 97. phleshdef Mar 2013 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author Whisp Mar 2013 #15

In the olden days, the late 60s and 70s in my case, we didn't call it rape flamingdem Mar 2013 #18

Of course "bad sex" isn't necessarily rape. Anybody with any sense knows that. nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #20

yeah, creepy is the word , glad it's not just me who is getting that feeling JI7 Mar 2013 #22

Wow that author seems to have really internalized the self-doubt Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #23

she was sexually abused as a child, and part of her shtick is to be a bit too ambivalent about it. bettyellen Mar 2013 #26

Is it attention-seeking behavior then? Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #67

She got a lot of attention for the first piece, and they are looking for readers. I'm not kidding bettyellen Mar 2013 #71

+1 LiberalLoner Mar 2013 #153

I also found it creepy. Shrike47 Mar 2013 #25

Oh, that was very clearly rape! But part of her article is correct. JVS Mar 2013 #27

And she was drunk. n/t Iris Mar 2013 #30

The idea that what happened in Steubenville... are all rape is ridiculous. seabeyond Mar 2013 #35

Where is she claiming Steubenville isn't rape? LittleBlue Mar 2013 #36

it sounds to me like she is saying, what happened in steubenville, girls and her are not rapes. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #37

I think she's saying they're two different things. LittleBlue Mar 2013 #39

She said she was glad justice was served in Steubenville. tammywammy Mar 2013 #40

that was a very poor sentence. seabeyond Mar 2013 #45

I didn't read it as rape apologist or dismissive. tammywammy Mar 2013 #50

yeah- when you have to reread and check for the parenthetical to be certain she can finally call bettyellen Mar 2013 #79

exactly. especially as the whole article implies otherwise. one would expect seabeyond Mar 2013 #84

if you read back to her earlier article, you can see she has serious issues faulting herself bettyellen Mar 2013 #90

yeh, I'm feeling sorry for her now rather than angry at her. n/t Whisp Mar 2013 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #38

Nice... LittleBlue Mar 2013 #42

Cool story. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #49

but if it had been a man dsc Mar 2013 #60

Yes you were raped. JVS Mar 2013 #89

Please tell me you're not serious. cali Mar 2013 #101

This message was self-deleted by its author In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #44

the OP is posting an article from salon, not speaking from personal experience, I think. niyad Mar 2013 #46

Well then. I am truly sorry that it happened to anyone. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #48

that's fucked up, did he ever get arrested ? JI7 Mar 2013 #51

no In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #55

Oh, For Gods Sake ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #47

15 years old Texasgal Mar 2013 #52

Oh, geez, I'm sorry! You're so right. ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #54

It is consenual in Vermont. You know that awful backward state. cali Mar 2013 #118

30 years ago what was the age of consent? madville Mar 2013 #53

Simple moral issue: it's the CONSENT & the law that matter. alp227 Mar 2013 #56

So what was the point at the park where she consented enthusiastically? Kalidurga Mar 2013 #58

In a few years, this will be the new approach to sexual consent... Generation_Why Mar 2013 #59

Yah, that's pushing it to absurdity, MineralMan Mar 2013 #66

Are you saying that most alleged rapes are not rape? boston bean Mar 2013 #68

It's a pretty frivolous treatment of a serious subject. Bucky Mar 2013 #77

I wasn't really saying anything. Just injecting some humor. But I'll clarify MY stance: Generation_Why Mar 2013 #122

so totally passed out is your standard here for rape? And you think a "yes" is too much trouble bettyellen Mar 2013 #149

The problem I see with this article is that the author assumes that whether what was done to her Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #75

I think the point is that NOW, as an adult, she does not consider it rape. randome Mar 2013 #81

I don't think she considered it rape then either... did I miss something? bettyellen Mar 2013 #91

I'm saying it was rape according to the law, regardless of consent. randome Mar 2013 #143

"The idea that what happened in Steubenville, with Natalia on �Girls,� and with me in the park 30 lunasun Mar 2013 #80

It was oddly written Lex Mar 2013 #85

Legally, it doesn't matter if she doesn't "feel" it was rape. If she was unable to give consent Lex Mar 2013 #83

Some people in this thread don't have a lot of knowledge about statutory rape laws. phleshdef Mar 2013 #97

Wow, this woman has an improper opinion. Let's trash her. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #98

I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing that. tammywammy Mar 2013 #102

if she is unable to call digital penetration of a six year old rape I will trash her WRITING about bettyellen Mar 2013 #105

Who's trashing her? Being angry at the fact that she's working so hard to blur lines does not redqueen Mar 2013 #106

lasting aftereffects indeed sigmasix Mar 2013 #137

some people think it's okay for her to write about that- or hide it from readers to manipulate them bettyellen Mar 2013 #156

So disagreeing is "trashing" her? Lex Mar 2013 #128

Thank you LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #135

"so she's worthless." redqueen Mar 2013 #141

. LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #145

No, not "a sentence (I) didn't like"... a whole bunch of noxious crap about "Daddy". redqueen Mar 2013 #157

Yes, I read it. Not just a few select sentences but the whole thing LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #159

I went through that same shit. redqueen Mar 2013 #160

i said her opinion about using the word "rape" was worthless, and I stand by it. bettyellen Mar 2013 #151

"her opinion is worthless" =! "she's worthless" nt redqueen Mar 2013 #152

are we not allowed to critique work by any writers who've been sexually abused? bettyellen Mar 2013 #155

You are not allowed to use past, unrelated abuse as a dismissal LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #158

I'm using the stories she tells about herself to give context to the stories about herself. bettyellen Mar 2013 #161

Portraying criticisms of someone's opinion as a personal attack... redqueen Mar 2013 #163

The OP's opinion about statutory rape was dismissed because statutory rape. redqueen Mar 2013 #162

they are the same writer- she changed her name. bettyellen Mar 2013 #165

Thanks. nt redqueen Mar 2013 #166

It wasn't a different woman LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #167

Thanks for calling me an asshole for disagreeing about her opinions. redqueen Mar 2013 #169

you still don't understand the difference between attacking the work, and attacking the person? bettyellen Mar 2013 #170

she is attempting OPED journalism, for fuck's sake. and doing it dishonestly, and pandering bettyellen Mar 2013 #175

"pandering with salacious little anecdotes designed to stir up controversy" redqueen Mar 2013 #190

and here I thought we weren;t supposed to put any woman on a pedestal. bettyellen Mar 2013 #192

It's futile, LadyHawk LittleBlue Mar 2013 #164

Another person is equating criticizing her opinion and characterizations redqueen Mar 2013 #171

completely misquoting what people here wrote. I call bullshit. bettyellen Mar 2013 #176

I meant to reply to you. redqueen Mar 2013 #183

I recall something Dave Chappelle said about it LittleBlue Mar 2013 #144

It makes me goddamn furious LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #146

Sometimes group behavior causes the very feelings we want a victim to not feel. randome Mar 2013 #147

I don't get it- I criticized HER PIECE for omitting her whole history of sexually acting out.... bettyellen Mar 2013 #154

that would be relevant- if every bullet pointed item in that list wasn't bullshit. bettyellen Mar 2013 #191

I'm rather glad this behavior...which you documented quite well, IMHO, msanthrope Mar 2013 #193

I should not have cleared my ignore list LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #196

Yup.. and, as expected, the responses to you are worth at least 2 squares on the bingo card.. opiate69 Mar 2013 #199

Sure sounds like rape to me. mercymechap Mar 2013 #119

Yes, and it doesn't matter legally that she doesn't "feel" like it was now. Lex Mar 2013 #130

Your responses are very interesting. flvegan Mar 2013 #197

This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen Mar 2013 #203

thank you for taking the time to break it down as much as you did. there was a lot of troublesome seabeyond Mar 2013 #204

It about made me physically ill to have to sift through it. redqueen Mar 2013 #205

yes. i agree. the trash is just overwhelming. seabeyond Mar 2013 #206