General Discussion

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)

48. Hang on - "rising less slowly" isn't the same thing as "falling".

Sun Mar 24, 2013, 07:22 AM

Mar 2013

This article kind of looks like it's chosen to focus on the second derivative of price with regards to time, because that's the one that supports the case it wants to make, when arguably the first derivative is more relevant.

If you cherry-pick your derivative, you can always find one that's doing what you want.

Now, it's by no means obvious that the second derivative is the wrong measure - if you interpret first derivative as representing "conditions" then second derivative is where a change in conditions - like "the introduction of Obamacare" - would show up. So one could certainly make a case that the measure the article chooses to focus on is the right one.

But the fact that this article doesn't even discuss this, and presents its case so emphatically and confidently, makes it look more like cherry-picking for propaganda rather than open examination of all the numbers with a goal of informing.

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No, Obamacare is not making your insurance premiums go through the roof. [View all] pnwmom Mar 2013 OP

Back in Oct, before election, I remember talking to this mercymechap Mar 2013 #1

I wish there was an easier way to say this. annabanana Mar 2013 #2

Try this. Cowpunk Mar 2013 #6

not a bad start . . . . n/t annabanana Mar 2013 #8

Well, some say it will be so bad that 'normal insurance' is doomed. Zax2me Mar 2013 #3

Actually, it IS both... TygrBright Mar 2013 #22

Hey, TygrB. Just wanted to say Hi! Haven't seen a post from you in a while. Ferretherder Mar 2013 #51

Hidy, ferret! TygrBright Mar 2013 #70

medicare for everyone madrchsod Mar 2013 #4

exactly. Medicare keeps cost down because they are only allowed to pay out liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #24

+ infinity! n/t Lugnut Mar 2013 #40

My occupation is EMR... Cooley Hurd Mar 2013 #5

It hasnt made them come down either... shaayecanaan Mar 2013 #7

I'm not sure how it makes it more difficult Major Nikon Mar 2013 #11

Actually, Obamacare makes it easier for states to do single payer. subterranean Mar 2013 #20

It has promoted as slowing the rate of increases, not causing them to come down. pnwmom Mar 2013 #27

Wrong. We were promised large decreases in premiums. woo me with science Mar 2013 #32

But he never said that the subsidies would be in effect NOW. It's the subsidies that will lower pnwmom Mar 2013 #37

Oh for pete's sake. woo me with science Mar 2013 #41

States have the ability to regulate premium increases. If your state doesn't do that, pnwmom Mar 2013 #44

Leaving aside the fact that tax credits are a lousy way to help woo me with science Mar 2013 #46

The ACA did not exist in 2008 Ms. Toad Mar 2013 #42

Well, that makes it all better then! woo me with science Mar 2013 #43

The president, alone, does not write legislation.. Ms. Toad Mar 2013 #47

You know what, Ms. Toad? Spare us. woo me with science Mar 2013 #50

+1000 hobbit709 Mar 2013 #52

Word whatchamacallit Mar 2013 #62

Another +1000 Demeter Mar 2013 #72

Great post! dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #73

And yet another +1000 dflprincess Mar 2013 #80

+Ten Million! One of the best posts ever on this site. Brilliant. green for victory Mar 2013 #81

That doesn't refute Ms. Toad. joshcryer Mar 2013 #83

Don't be absurd, Josh. woo me with science Mar 2013 #89

I did not suggest that. joshcryer Mar 2013 #90

Entrenching the for-profit health insurance cartel into our health care system woo me with science Mar 2013 #91

It's politics. joshcryer Mar 2013 #95

No, it's not "politics." woo me with science Mar 2013 #96

You live in the highest developed country on Earth. joshcryer Mar 2013 #98

Our premiums skyrocketed already, we had to to drop our coverage about a year ago. Zorra Mar 2013 #92

+10000 Ours have gone up by double digits every single year. woo me with science Mar 2013 #94

woo me with facts! Horse with no Name Mar 2013 #97

Science called. It would like you to change your name. gulliver Mar 2013 #67

As usual, you completely missed the point as has the venerable kossack you lifted this from. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #9

Thank you. nt woo me with science Mar 2013 #33

You missed the point. As Obama said it would, the ACA has bent down the cost curve. pnwmom Mar 2013 #38

No, it hasn't. It is going exactly as the people that tried to warn you predicted it would. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #39

Great post. Thanks especially for mentioning the bit about the cap raise. woo me with science Mar 2013 #45

You are welcome. I don't know which pisses me off more, the scum that created this corporate Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #71

Thank you for this post and the one above it. n/t dflprincess Mar 2013 #79

I wish you would post the facts about the raising of the cap as an OP. woo me with science Mar 2013 #93

I don't think skyrockek but yearly increases above inflation seems to be in the cards joelz Mar 2013 #10

I'm not sure about what you say...Maybe some of the complaints could KoKo Mar 2013 #12

My rates are still increasing by double digits. LWolf Mar 2013 #13

Maybe you should go back and redo the math. Rate have been increasing bluestate10 Mar 2013 #15

I don't need to redo the math. LWolf Mar 2013 #60

Here, too. nt woo me with science Mar 2013 #61

me 2 markiv Mar 2013 #69

I would vote for Obama and the Dems again... lexw Mar 2013 #14

I am retired aka-chmeee Mar 2013 #16

It could have had a public option, it could have been actual reform Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #17

This has been posted elsewhere but seems too little discussed. reteachinwi Mar 2013 #23

Yup, polls showed Americans supported the public option at the time, woo me with science Mar 2013 #59

If it did premiums would still have gone up. joshcryer Mar 2013 #84

The ACA is what America has needed for years, regulation of the health insurance industry. mountain grammy Mar 2013 #18

I don't care what it making it go through the roof. The fact is I can't afford $925/month is premium liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #19

Same here. freedom fighter jh Mar 2013 #25

Have you found out what your rates will be starting in 2014? pnwmom Mar 2013 #28

The subsidies are a way to transfer more money to the corporations dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #74

I agree that Medicare for all or a public option would have been better. pnwmom Mar 2013 #75

True, he is not a dictator dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #76

And this fight immediately helped millions of young people stay on their parents insurance pnwmom Mar 2013 #85

And that's where our approaches differ dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #86

Thanks for recognizing that we do agree in some respects. pnwmom Mar 2013 #87

Not much agreement really dreamnightwind Mar 2013 #88

Face it, anything bad that happens in health care or insurance from now on subterranean Mar 2013 #21

My insurance went up from $604 to $678 in the past year. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #26

Do you think health care is affordable as the title of the bill implies? dkf Mar 2013 #29

Do you think the subsidies have kicked in yet? They haven't. pnwmom Mar 2013 #30

the subsidies are tax credits aren't they? that will surprise a few...n/t green for victory Mar 2013 #35

Was it just Romney Care that had the spike One_Life_To_Give Mar 2013 #31

Thread not going the way you wanted it to? Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #34

I'm not surprised. Most people don't understand that the program doesn't go into effect till pnwmom Mar 2013 #36

Wow, that was nasty. treestar Mar 2013 #55

No, it was a justified observation about how the shilling doesn't work anymore. woo me with science Mar 2013 #56

If DU were the whole world, maybe treestar Mar 2013 #57

No, what's "unkind" is profiting, obscenely, from the human need for health care, woo me with science Mar 2013 #58

Hang on - "rising less slowly" isn't the same thing as "falling". Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2013 #48

What are these "insurance" and "health care" things... 99Forever Mar 2013 #49

I just sat in on a briefing for my County Board of Commissioners snpsmom Mar 2013 #53

To the average shallow thinker it makes sense treestar Mar 2013 #54

Still nothing to brag about. kentuck Mar 2013 #63

Jonathan Gruber designed RomneyCare reteachinwi Mar 2013 #64

I don't see any statistics in the posts that disagree with you. gulliver Mar 2013 #65

thanks for the info pnwmom! n/t flamingdem Mar 2013 #66

i'v had double digit increases every year since it passed markiv Mar 2013 #68

so how much does a new policy cost? quadrature Mar 2013 #77

Why would rates come down when you are now required by law to buy regardless? Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #78

Thank you. woo me with science Mar 2013 #99

Wait a sec, "somebody has to pay for" insuring all Americans. jazzimov Mar 2013 #82