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[Zebedeo]

143. You answered two questions

But not all the others.

So you believe that women who have had hysterectomies are disqualified, like men, from expressing opinions concerning abortion, because they are unable to bear children.

And you answered the question about the number of uteri you have - none.

Other than that, you failed to answer any of my questions, or address the substance of my post.

Here are the questions again:

If you do not believe that the child who is not born yet is another person, is it because you believe that the child is the SAME person as the mother?

Or is it because you believe the child is not a person at all?

Take our President, for example. Would you say that Barack Obama was the same person as his mother, prior to his birth?

Or would you say he was not a person prior to his birth?

Was there a point in time at which he became a person (or became a person other than his mother)?

What about 5 minutes before his birth? Was he "another person" then?

Then you quoted me in an excerpt, but left off the first part of my sentence.

I said:

If you agree that a baby is a person other than his mother prior to his birth, then I think our shared philosophical viewpoint dictates that the issue of whether his mother should have an abortion is an issue in which society as a whole has an interest, and the opinions of members of society are entitled to be expressed - just like the gun control or military action scenarios which you addressed in your post. In other words, it is not just a matter of personal autonomy, because the action of having an abortion does have an adverse effect on another person.

You left off the first part of that sentence - the conditional clause, and misquoted me as saying:

I think our shared philosophical viewpoint dictates that the issue of whether his mother should have an abortion is an issue in which society as a whole has an interest, and the opinions of members of society are entitled to be expressed

Your stance seems to be rather hypocritical. You assert that those without uteri have no business expressing opinions about abortion, but when it is pointed out that you have no uterus and you have been expressing strong opinions about abortion, you think that is OK, because your opinion should be allowed to be expressed, and it is only those that disagree with you that should STFU about abortion. Can you see how that may seem like a double-standard?

The crux of the abortion issue is whether the unborn offspring - "baby," "child," "fetus," "zygote," "embryo," or whatever you want to call him, is a person, and if so, whether said offspring is a different person than his mother. You and I generally agree with the principle of personal autonomy - that, as a general rule, it is none of anyone else's business what someone does with their own body - provided that it does not have an adverse effect on another person.

I would like to know whether you believe the unborn offspring is not a person, or whether you believe the unborn offspring is the same person as the mother. I would argue that either assertion is on shaky ground. If you assert that the unborn offspring is the same person as the mother, it seems that your definition of the "same person" is quite unjustifiably broad. Half the time, the offspring is of a different sex than the mother. The offspring has different genetics and may be of a different race than the mother. It seems quite ridiculous to say that the offspring is the same person as the mother. But if your answer is that the offspring is "not a person," then you have other difficulties. Does the offspring ever become a person? Surely he does, at some point. What is that point? That's why I asked you about a baby that is 5 minutes from being born. Is he "not a person," because he is inside his mother's body? You mentioned that most abortions occur within 12 weeks of gestation. Do you believe that offspring that are less than 12 weeks from gestation are not persons? Do they become persons at exactly 12 weeks? Or only at the moment they come through the birth canal? Do they have to be full term pregnancies to count as persons? So a baby that is born premature is not a person until he has reached the point which is 9 months after conception?