General Discussion

HisTomness

(101 posts)

21. I'm with you, Bob

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 12:00 PM

Mar 2013

Sorry to see the shabby treatment you are getting from some DUers here. Some people just cannot help but lash out at anyone who does not agree with them. I like to think of DU as a place where you can expect more nuanced discussion and argument over difficult issues like this. The kind of binary thinking behind "You love capitalism and hate democracy!" is the sort of garbage that belongs in RW shout-fests.

Sadly, democracy has been failing in Detroit for decades. It would be one thing if Detroit existed in a sort of economic vacuum and it were a simple matter of "C'est la vie - let them do what they will," but the gross mismanagement of the city has been a tremendous economic drag on the entire state for a long time.

I'm not thrilled with the Republican establishment that is behind this push at the state level, but at the same time I am not going to shed any tears over the ousting of a city council so rife with corruption and incompetence that it is at times jaw-dropping. They've been shooting holes in the bottom of the boat for too long and it's time to take that gun away from them before we all drown.

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Pro-Democracy Movement Rises Against 'Disaster Capitalism' in Detroit [View all] xchrom Mar 2013 OP

K&R PETRUS Mar 2013 #1

I'll just say I disagree with the article backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #2

What? You agree with gutting a democratically elected government? loudsue Mar 2013 #4

have you ever had extensive dealings with that city? backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #5

So FIX IT! But don't let a totalitarian government take over and do it for you! loudsue Mar 2013 #6

people have been trying to FIX IT for 30+YEARS backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #10

they've been saying it about the US too. I'll put you down as another vote for dictatorship. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #53

I think you are biased by your own bad experience notadmblnd Mar 2013 #105

there are businesses moving into the city -- upscale type businesses like brewpubs. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #111

Interesting that you talk about Detroit Cal Carpenter Mar 2013 #7

Indeed. nt woo me with science Mar 2013 #8

people don't have jobs if every company refuses to work in that City backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #11

Okay Bob Cal Carpenter Mar 2013 #12

how much have you dealt with Detroit? backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #13

Irrelevent Cal Carpenter Mar 2013 #15

so you have never dealt with that city backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #16

Seriously, Cal Carpenter Mar 2013 #17

exactly backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #19

Much as how only WW2 veterans may objectively analyze the way rather than historians... LanternWaste Mar 2013 #56

just out of curiosity where did I say screw democracy? backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #14

The part where you support replacing elected officials with an unelected official. ieoeja Mar 2013 #20

it isnt coming back backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #22

detroit is already coming back. there's big capital moving in for the fire sale. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #112

Gee, "Bob"... Dryvinwhileblind Mar 2013 #28

it was a home improvement company backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #31

At least Al liked you. You realize that Tim was just jealous of your success, don't you? n/t ieoeja Mar 2013 #57

yet there are still companies in detroit. and auto manufacturing didn't leave detroit because of HiPointDem Mar 2013 #62

It's mortifying. Union Scribe Mar 2013 #108

so far i'm not a bit surprised by the posters who love it. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #109

+1 HiPointDem Mar 2013 #54

You could just have said "yes." 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2013 #97

It was that same government that drove the city into the ground. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #40

I'm with you, Bob HisTomness Mar 2013 #21

this is why I've pretty much given up on this site as a place for chenge backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #24

^^^^THEY'RE HERE!!!^^^^ Dryvinwhileblind Mar 2013 #29

says mr 98 posts. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #63

... woo me with science Mar 2013 #66

why would anyone have multiple accounts but to troll or to make it appear that DU was more HiPointDem Mar 2013 #67

My sentiments exactly. nt woo me with science Mar 2013 #69

Is that really your counterpoint? HisTomness Mar 2013 #71

says mr 99 posts. tag team HiPointDem Mar 2013 #72

I agree with you also badtoworse Mar 2013 #27

^^^^MORE third way TRIPE^^^^ Dryvinwhileblind Mar 2013 #30

So how would you fix the problem? badtoworse Mar 2013 #33

Please don't feed the troll /nt HisTomness Mar 2013 #35

What an erudite response badtoworse Mar 2013 #36

That wasn't meant to be a dig at you HisTomness Mar 2013 #38

OK, thanks badtoworse Mar 2013 #39

Propaganda. woo me with science Mar 2013 #68

Good call, WMWS... Dryvinwhileblind Mar 2013 #84

So why not just let the default play out? JVS Mar 2013 #93

I tend to agree with you, bwb. elleng Mar 2013 #81

k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #3

K&R woo me with science Mar 2013 #9

Marvelous. I hope they stop this tyranny in its tracks. caseymoz Mar 2013 #18

Power to the people Jack Rabbit Mar 2013 #23

we should send in federal troops to have a firefight? backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #25

Excuse me? Jack Rabbit Mar 2013 #32

this isn't about integrating schools damnit backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #34

Isn't that how a few Germans felt? Occulus Mar 2013 #37

No, this isn't about integration Jack Rabbit Mar 2013 #43

"There are other solutions to the problem of a city in financial straights" badtoworse Mar 2013 #46

Perhaps file bankruptcy Jack Rabbit Mar 2013 #47

What makes you think they would get a better deal from a judge? badtoworse Mar 2013 #49

I'm not a lawyer either, but the people of Detroit would stand a better chance against a judge Jack Rabbit Mar 2013 #79

As a practical matter, I doubt it will make much difference badtoworse Mar 2013 #82

In DC we squealed when it happened, but it worked out well Recursion Mar 2013 #59

the other two candidates had different opinions about detroit's financial situation. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #113

Thank you for that insight Jack Rabbit Mar 2013 #116

i wasn't criticizing your post. i understood what you meant. just wanted to add that there's a HiPointDem Mar 2013 #117

K&R n/t myrna minx Mar 2013 #26

How does "privatization of public resources" "hollow out your tax base" FarCenter Mar 2013 #41

By gouging wages, for a start. theKed Mar 2013 #42

But if you are not paying public employees, you don't need the tax revenues to pay them. FarCenter Mar 2013 #44

So the solution to theKed Mar 2013 #48

The solution to government deficits is to reduce govt and increase the private economy FarCenter Mar 2013 #50

False. theKed Mar 2013 #51

Keynesian economics won't work for a city that has never run a surplus FarCenter Mar 2013 #58

complete bullshit. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #92

Keynes works at a national level with control over your own monetary supply Recursion Mar 2013 #60

Exactly. theKed Mar 2013 #61

you can't spend publicly with a tax base that doesn't exist privately. Jim.Rob58 Mar 2013 #85

All Detroit has proven theKed Mar 2013 #87

It's kind of the other way around. They've proven that they can assess all the property taxes... JVS Mar 2013 #96

Keynes is for national economies (or technically for economies where you control the money supply... JVS Mar 2013 #95

because dps have been mostly under some form of emergency dictatorship since 1999. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #73

Reduction of government only helps the financial situation if done selectivly. JVS Mar 2013 #94

'lavish benefits'. lol. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #65

Detroit still has more city employees / 10,000 residents than most large cities. FarCenter Mar 2013 #74

link? HiPointDem Mar 2013 #76

Detroit overstaffed compared to other cities FarCenter Mar 2013 #86

2011. since then they've more than cut the workforce in half & cut wages and benefits. and HiPointDem Mar 2013 #91

So 21,342 in the mid 80s vs approximately 15,000 now. JVS Mar 2013 #100

you can't even read your own link. in 2011 there were 12,900 city employees & they've made HiPointDem Mar 2013 #101

My own link? Maybe you're the one who can't read something. JVS Mar 2013 #102

sorry, didn't pay attention to the name, just assumed it was the previous poster responding. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #103

But was the ratio of employees to residents right in 1980? FarCenter Mar 2013 #106

'the black administrations'. speaks volumes. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #107

Big city political machines work on a spoils system -- nothing new about that FarCenter Mar 2013 #114

Detroit's headcount has gone down continuously since at least the 80s. Them's the facts. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #115

11,000 employees in march 2012, & bing was getting ready to reduce headcount another 9%. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #118

In the most recent budget there are 9764 employees & another 673 grant-funded employees, for HiPointDem Mar 2013 #119

and taken from the jobs and revenue base. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #64

I can say that quite a few of my neighbors in Detroit are for EFM SpartanDem Mar 2013 #45

kr HiPointDem Mar 2013 #52

So Detroit was not grossly mismanaged? Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #55

K&R woo me with science Mar 2013 #70

It's an interesting & revealing thread, no? Nt xchrom Mar 2013 #75

Every time something like this comes up, there's always a tag team supporting the fascists. HiPointDem Mar 2013 #77

Corporate tentacles run deep. woo me with science Mar 2013 #78

i find it morbidly fascinating. xchrom Mar 2013 #80

�Over a decade of experimentation has shown that the emergency manager model is undemocratic and it noiretextatique Mar 2013 #83

Especially a manager who had liens on his home for unpaid UE taxes Cal Carpenter Mar 2013 #88

Oh I don't know Cal. He might be like all the other capitalist whores........ socialist_n_TN Mar 2013 #90

kick woo me with science Mar 2013 #89

I don't like the EFM. JVS Mar 2013 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author moondust Mar 2013 #99

'Nuff said? aristocles Mar 2013 #104

union-busting bullshit propaganda. Detroit's population has declined 40% since the 80s, and HiPointDem Mar 2013 #110

kick woo me with science Mar 2013 #120