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13. yeah, i'm not clear how the "public shaming was completely within bounds" conclusion was reached.

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:54 PM

Mar 2013

certainly what the original people did was inappropriate, and they admitted as much, and got fired, which most likely is exactly what they deserved.

but witnessing or being even being the victim of wrongdoing doesn't legally entitle you to do unconditionally anything that comes to mind in order to address the situation, and it seems to me there were more discreet channels that could have been pursued.

to be clear, from a *moral* perspective, i certainly would have hoped that her employer would have stood by her and allowed her to make what they regard as a mistake which they could have characterized as minor in comparison to the greater mistake created by the original harassment (e.g., hopefully this never happens again but if it ever does, please just call their employer and/or let our human resources department handle it, we're behind you 100% and happy to get harassers fired but we'd like to do it in a way that doesn't distracting media attention.)

my wondering is really just on the legal question. i suspect the employer does have the legal right to dismiss her if she handled it inappropriately even if she did have the right to handle it.

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Labor Attorneys Agree: The Adria Richards Firing Will Be Hard to Defend [View all] Recursion Mar 2013 OP

I always wondered why they fired her too? Rex Mar 2013 #1

The statement was that her job as a "developer evangelist" was to communicate well with developers Recursion Mar 2013 #2

Wow, no written warning or notice? Rex Mar 2013 #3

After script kiddies published her home address and phone number Recursion Mar 2013 #4

I am sure the fired guys are getting death threats etc.. Rex Mar 2013 #5

Funny you should mention that Recursion Mar 2013 #6

Wow. Rex Mar 2013 #8

Yep. Complete strangers. Some of the same ones who threatened Adria Recursion Mar 2013 #10

Can I just say BainsBane Mar 2013 #81

Remember, there's no such thing as male privilege. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #12

<--- White, hetrosexual male that works in the IT field. Rex Mar 2013 #16

Ditto. I'm dubious anybody could be oblivious to it Recursion Mar 2013 #17

Same here. It was so bad at times that I tried other careers Rex Mar 2013 #18

As a woman in IT, I have been a minority for a long time. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #42

No man-splaining has been around for a long time. Rex Mar 2013 #73

Which large telecom? I used to do the one IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #74

Cyberlog Ltd, also known internationally as E-COM.tel Rex Mar 2013 #76

Twice in a day Kelvin Mace Mar 2013 #106

I feel your pain. MadrasT Mar 2013 #107

You work in Kansas City or Salt lake City? uponit7771 Mar 2013 #71

Can I just say BainsBane Mar 2013 #82

again BainsBane Mar 2013 #84

It's funny to watch how "Anonymous" ping-pongs back & forth between brave anti-establishment heroes Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #223

She apparently has a history of not getting along with her co-workers. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #54

My mistake then, I thought I read she excelled at her job. Rex Mar 2013 #63

Well, she is apparently good at her actual job, but as that article points out, she alienates sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #65

Then she does not excel at her job imo. Rex Mar 2013 #68

that could be a bullshit blog with a person with an ax. we do not know anything and her we are seabeyond Mar 2013 #180

who is amanda blum that met (or saw) her once and has issue with the one other time she spoke out? seabeyond Mar 2013 #173

Who was Adria Richards? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2013 #197

a woman that had a job and supposedly a good reputation in that job, that called out sexist behavior seabeyond Mar 2013 #206

Sabrina has never 'sided with sexists'. polly7 Mar 2013 #227

Digging Beneath the Surface: That Amanda Blum Article on Adria Richards is Not What It Seems seabeyond Mar 2013 #230

Thanks for the additional info. +1000 for your whole post. nt. polly7 Mar 2013 #226

Digging Beneath the Surface: That Amanda Blum Article on Adria Richards is Not What It Seems seabeyond Mar 2013 #229

Nothing justifies angry mobs and the author of the article made it clear sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #232

glad to see you backed away from amandas article further damaging richards professional career. seabeyond Mar 2013 #234

I backed away from nothing. She wrote an article which was extremely sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #240

if you backed away from nothing sabrina, it really bottomline, says it all. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #241

In tech, your career is only as relevant as your last project. Xithras Mar 2013 #109

Boy ain't THAT a brutal truth! Rex Mar 2013 #111

You can never stop learning new stuff. Never. CrispyQ Mar 2013 #211

yeah, i'm not clear how the "public shaming was completely within bounds" conclusion was reached. unblock Mar 2013 #13

Agree. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #53

Did they deserve to be fired? These 2 people were at a conference talking to each other. They were Pisces Mar 2013 #138

yeah, it certainly could have been handled that way. otoh, unblock Mar 2013 #141

True, but were the jokes in question so offensive that the public demanded they be fired? In my Pisces Mar 2013 #144

When people in your indsutry are scared to work with you, you won't get much work accomplished Malik Agar Mar 2013 #7

The problem is the male domination of the industry, not her Recursion Mar 2013 #9

+1 gollygee Mar 2013 #14

It wasn't just that Malik Agar Mar 2013 #21

Can I tweet the next teabagger I see with a misspelled sign? Recursion Mar 2013 #24

They mispell sines at protests? Malik Agar Mar 2013 #25

I'm not sure whether you said "sine" ironically or not Recursion Mar 2013 #26

From what I've read she was exceptional at her job. Rex Mar 2013 #11

Which of course had nothing to do with her personality. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #23

Thanks for Posting - I Wondered if Richards Might be a "Difficult" Person to Work W/ dballance Mar 2013 #31

It sounds like Richards was creating the conflict UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #35

It Does Appear That's a Habit dballance Mar 2013 #37

How so? ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #44

Afraid? JTFrog Mar 2013 #51

Your Venomous Post is Exactly Why I Didn't Post in the First Place dballance Mar 2013 #114

Yea, your use of the scare quotes JTFrog Mar 2013 #182

So what did the rest of the Jury have to say? dballance Mar 2013 #225

Nope. n/t JTFrog Mar 2013 #243

You know, You are Absolutely right. dballance Apr 2013 #244

Thank you. JTFrog Apr 2013 #248

Maybe I'm Just Odd dballance Apr 2013 #250

Actually I am wrong, she did not excel at her job at all. Rex Mar 2013 #89

Oh course they are. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #96

There are a lot of idiots and crazy people in RL. Rex Mar 2013 #98

Apparently not many seem to care if they're being investigated or not. redqueen Mar 2013 #102

It is a field dominated by men, some of which are disgusting pigs. Rex Mar 2013 #105

who is amanda blum? one article on a blog made specifically to vilify the woman. seabeyond Mar 2013 #174

Yep, UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #177

not like you ever reply to what i actually post. who the hell is amanda blum and why should seabeyond Mar 2013 #179

Holy shit... this woman STARTED A BLOG *JUST* TO TRASH ADRIA?! redqueen Mar 2013 #193

Digging Beneath the Surface: That Amanda Blum Article on Adria Richards is Not What It Seems seabeyond Mar 2013 #231

i don't know the timing, but it would have been more defensible if they actually lost business first unblock Mar 2013 #15

As long as my co-workers are efficient at their job and maintain professionalism LanternWaste Apr 2013 #252

Negative blowback from the twitter/dongle thing theKed Mar 2013 #19

The alternative was to go out of business LittleBlue Mar 2013 #20

Oh that's bullshit. Andy Fastow has a job now. Recursion Mar 2013 #30

Not if she doesn't change her attitude... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #45

change her attitude BainsBane Mar 2013 #97

Yes, change her attitude... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #103

interact like an adult BainsBane Mar 2013 #117

Adria richards Kurovski Mar 2013 #146

How about that woman BainsBane Mar 2013 #152

This has nothing to do with my post. Kurovski Mar 2013 #153

It has everything to do with it BainsBane Mar 2013 #154

It was the tail-end of a discussion about her ability to find a job. Kurovski Mar 2013 #155

what is the reality? BainsBane Mar 2013 #157

Now you are just talking to yourself. Kurovski Mar 2013 #163

What exactly are you so pissed off about? BainsBane Mar 2013 #164

This assumes the collective forgets this poster child. I suspect they will not. n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #77

Sendgrid sounds incompetent... nebenaube Mar 2013 #55

Ugh... sibelian Mar 2013 #22

Reporting harassment means taking it to management magical thyme Mar 2013 #27

Thank you! Mopar151 Mar 2013 #29

There is such a thing as EEOC labor law BainsBane Apr 2013 #245

You very obviously don't know me. Mopar151 Apr 2013 #247

I only know what you have posted BainsBane Apr 2013 #249

+1 Ridicule was a higher priority than a solution. Such people ARE hard to work with. nt patrice Mar 2013 #32

THANK YOU!!! WolverineDG Mar 2013 #36

The fact that only one of them was is a hint (nt) Recursion Mar 2013 #40

You think both should have been fired? WolverineDG Mar 2013 #43

Just hearing the joke was worthy of punishment JVS Mar 2013 #61

What "management"? They didn't work together Recursion Mar 2013 #39

That would be an email to a specific person or group. Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #46

So we should stop posting pictures of freepers with stupid misspelled signs Recursion Mar 2013 #47

No you should be honest... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #50

Actually he didn't say that BainsBane Mar 2013 #85

Then what did he mean by... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #87

you'd after to ask him BainsBane Mar 2013 #90

I meant she tweeted the picture so staff could see who she was talking about Recursion Mar 2013 #99

While technically true... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #101

Why shouldn't frank be judged for eating my snacks? Recursion Mar 2013 #112

Fine.. go ahead.. no one is stopping you... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #113

Maybe because labor law BainsBane Mar 2013 #125

the picture didn't need to be tweeted for the entire world to see magical thyme Mar 2013 #48

It didn't need not to be, either. You don't have some bizarre "right" to have people... Recursion Mar 2013 #49

defamation of character and libel are not legal magical thyme Mar 2013 #52

Just like she doesn't have some bizarre "right" to keep her job EOTE Mar 2013 #66

I guess public shaming is in vogue. No one should have their privacy invaded by having their picture Pisces Mar 2013 #147

I think that may be illegal in some states also. To put someone's image sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #233

Women who have less tolerance for beavis and butthead are "little miss prisses" and "drama queens"? redqueen Mar 2013 #56

Boys will be boys, don't you know Recursion Mar 2013 #57

Yeah, welcome to Idiocracy. redqueen Mar 2013 #59

she didn't have to tolerate their crudeness. magical thyme Mar 2013 #60

Add to this that she was making far more graphic jokes herself n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #79

Actually I'm srarting to think her reaction was no big deal. redqueen Mar 2013 #62

This is not about tech. People across the spectrum, men and women love to tell a dirty joke. Are we Pisces Mar 2013 #242

No. "Engineer Evangelists" who so lack discretion or think they are so important magical thyme Mar 2013 #58

Right. You call them "Little Miss Priss drama queens" because of the method they choose redqueen Mar 2013 #64

um...whatever. magical thyme Mar 2013 #67

That's because the initial issue was minor at best... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #70

threats of death and rape BainsBane Mar 2013 #133

When you find someone who says or agrees with that claptrap... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #149

whereas threats of rape and death BainsBane Mar 2013 #130

exactly where did I say that was acceptable? that's right. no where. magical thyme Mar 2013 #198

That's reporting it, complaining about you don't have to and BOTH are protected under the law whethe uponit7771 Mar 2013 #72

Hear hear! nt Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #78

+1 Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #108

In my day, kids fought. Nobody insisted that we "play nice with each other" or "use our words". ZOB Mar 2013 #28

^== This. NT IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #38

let me get this straight BainsBane Mar 2013 #95

Some of AR's defenders should ask themselves what their reaction would be if sex roles in this patrice Mar 2013 #33

"Pic of hot girl at the con" has its own hashtag Recursion Mar 2013 #41

I'm not her defender BainsBane Mar 2013 #88

+1 redqueen Mar 2013 #94

No, she didn't "tell on a man". jeff47 Mar 2013 #158

So tweeting isn't telling? BainsBane Mar 2013 #159

As I said, tweeting it is shouting from the mountaintops, through a megaphone, or whatever metaphor jeff47 Mar 2013 #165

your response is far more balanced BainsBane Mar 2013 #167

She didn't just quote him. She complained about it. jeff47 Mar 2013 #170

she called out the sexist crap. against convention policy and the man company policy. seabeyond Mar 2013 #176

Again, the appropriate response was not to be a worse person jeff47 Mar 2013 #183

lmfao.. ya, cause telling a man that is throwing out sexist crap in an environment he KNOWs seabeyond Mar 2013 #186

So she's just a child, being crushed by evil, evil men every day at her work? jeff47 Mar 2013 #194

So she's just a child, being crushed by evil, evil men every day at her work? seabeyond Mar 2013 #207

They don't have to jeff47 Mar 2013 #160

what? if i told racist jokes? against company policy? and i was called out? i would expect my ass seabeyond Mar 2013 #175

You don't have to ask: Dr. Strange Mar 2013 #185

I don't know how other people handle it, but where I work taking an work issue to thousands... JVS Mar 2013 #34

Classic divide and conquer management techniques on display greatlaurel Mar 2013 #69

She had only worked for SendGrid for a little over a 12 months FarCenter Mar 2013 #75

wouldn't that be part of communications? BainsBane Mar 2013 #83

To be a "developer evangelist" you need to be a developer first FarCenter Mar 2013 #100

okay, but that would appear more relevant BainsBane Mar 2013 #115

When you make a bad hiring decision, you have to fix it as soon as it becomes evident. FarCenter Mar 2013 #118

and that wouldn't pertain to the male BainsBane Mar 2013 #120

It would if the "numerous infractions" is true. FarCenter Mar 2013 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Mar 2013 #126

This is all speculation BainsBane Mar 2013 #127

We know a great deal about Adria Richards; we know far less about the guy FarCenter Mar 2013 #140

I can't see how what he looks like is remotely relevant BainsBane Mar 2013 #143

And she has worked at WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #110

MSNBC reported BainsBane Mar 2013 #80

I wouldn't hire this woman if I were paid to do so Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #86

How did she "get the guy fired"? BainsBane Mar 2013 #91

In general accusations of the kind you just made say more about the accuser than the accused Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #92

How did she get the guy fired? BainsBane Mar 2013 #93

Did you see this? redqueen Mar 2013 #104

I'm sure anon will DDOS his employer any day now Recursion Mar 2013 #116

Edited: I see it now BainsBane Mar 2013 #119

Sorry Bains, been busy. For details of what happened see this thread Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #131

that's not details BainsBane Mar 2013 #132

My take? Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #134

so how does that amount to "getting him fired"? BainsBane Mar 2013 #135

Your questions Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #137

again BainsBane Mar 2013 #139

You are all over the place on this. Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #148

so you now are omniscient BainsBane Mar 2013 #156

Respectfully, I suggest... Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #204

And then on the most simple level BainsBane Mar 2013 #162

I would have thought that would be an easy question to answer BainsBane Mar 2013 #128

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a "dongle" and "forking" mean? waddirum Mar 2013 #121

no BainsBane Mar 2013 #122

For the curious Recursion Mar 2013 #124

FYI FarCenter Mar 2013 #142

very interesting waddirum Mar 2013 #150

All parties involved handled this poorly. No one should have been fired and she should not have Pisces Mar 2013 #129

+1 n/t tammywammy Mar 2013 #136

and how often do men knock off their sexist bullshit when a woman says... knock it off? seabeyond Mar 2013 #178

I worked in a male dominated field and they will knock it off if you tell them to directly and with Pisces Mar 2013 #188

if you look at the picture, she is a great enough distance there was no personal whispering of the seabeyond Mar 2013 #189

They were one row behind her. I have been to conferences before and that is not a great distance. Pisces Mar 2013 #190

they were behind, to the side. it is not her job to give them the "opportunity" to behave properly seabeyond Mar 2013 #191

I don't disagree that the tech industry has a bad rep. She was not on her job. These are not her Pisces Mar 2013 #192

creating a hostile work environment is seldom so direct as to be speaking to the woman. sexists seabeyond Mar 2013 #205

And if a female made the joke, and it made people uncomfortable, it would also be harassment Recursion Mar 2013 #216

It was not on the job. It was at a conference, not her co-workers, not directed at her or about her. Pisces Mar 2013 #228

"And with conviction" Recursion Mar 2013 #215

JOAN OF ARC OF THE DONGLES will come out of this just fine, I'm sure. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #145

She's already got a following here ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2013 #196

and the fact that she got death threats, of course, justifies her making a giant stink Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #212

she twittered, not cool. OMG.... GIANT stink. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #217

so now you're in favor of posting peoples' pictures on the internet without their consent? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #218

geez, you do not get it, but knew you were trippin to say this line. GIANT STINK. seabeyond Mar 2013 #219

she posted their picture without their consent. Apparently you're okay with that sort of thing. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #220

it is a waste of time to even begin to educate you. hence, me focusing on the giant stink, seabeyond Mar 2013 #221

Physician, Educate thyself. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #222

And herein lies the problem... opiate69 Mar 2013 #235

just doin' what skinner suggested. not gonna hunt his post. seabeyond Mar 2013 #236

Ahh!!! I spent 15 minutes typing that, on my phone no less and all I get is one sentence?? opiate69 Mar 2013 #237

arent those phones seabeyond Mar 2013 #238

Man.. I want an iPhone... opiate69 Mar 2013 #239

Keep spewing the hate guys greatlaurel Mar 2013 #151

If what the guy said is no big deal? BainsBane Mar 2013 #161

Because it's not the appropriate level of response. jeff47 Mar 2013 #166

I'm not defending her decision to put it on Twitter BainsBane Mar 2013 #168

She wasn't just quoting him. She was also complaining about the joke. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #169

okay, so she complained BainsBane Mar 2013 #171

There were several levels of overreaction in this story. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #172

And this is where you seem to be missing the issue WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #195

That's a very good point BainsBane Mar 2013 #203

I look at it this way WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #208

of the two guys BainsBane Mar 2013 #209

It's irrelevant WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #210

the joke wasn't appropriate either BainsBane Mar 2013 #199

Because the Internet is a unified body with similar goals and ideals? jeff47 Mar 2013 #201

Because twitter is the kind of place that has unhinged people who... JVS Mar 2013 #181

that doesn't explain why people here so despise Richards BainsBane Mar 2013 #200

that's not what you asked JVS Mar 2013 #202

Question: Why does she get a free pass on sexual harassment? Taverner Mar 2013 #214

The employer chose to fire one of the men BainsBane Apr 2013 #246

She made herself a toxic Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #184

She didn't "make herself" a toxic employee. sufrommich Mar 2013 #187

So much for anonymous as heroes, huh. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #224

I don't know, I perceived her tweet as sexual harassment Taverner Mar 2013 #213

I looked up "mountain out of a mole hill" SomethingFishy Apr 2013 #251