General Discussion

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)

42. As a woman in IT, I have been a minority for a long time.

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:52 AM

Mar 2013

I am a senior developer - top tier, blah, blah, blah. I had one "boss" who was so used to his co-workers being morons he actually tried to explain to me what a one-to-many relationship was. Seriously. My jaw was on the floor. At first I thought he was joking. I had already designed six different applications for the company that were being used, and provided him with table layouts as part of the documentation, and he was EXPLAINING one-to-many relationships to me as if they were a new concept.

Of course, this was a guy who also tried to "explain" that "Dept" was an abbreviation for "department" on a spreadsheet that *I* had originally designed, so the "man-splaining" (is that the new word?) shouldn't have come as a shock. I finally had to take him to the woodshed after he explained he wanted me to do some *real* IT stuff (after I had just found a way to prevent an HR SAP implementation that was ten years out of date from happening without the missing upgrade), and I finally exploded at him, including threatening to walk off the job. That discussion included me explaining to him that I had a spreadsheet of issues that needed to be resolved, and him suggesting I "make a spreadsheet of issues that need to be resolved" five minutes later, with me whacking him upside the head with the fact I had just TOLD him that I was doing that, so why was he trying to pretend it was his idea? Since I was also explaining to him that I wasn't going to do a major implementation "wrong" just because he didn't have a clue (I was pretty protective of my customers), the whole thing was a shock to his system as I am used to being excessively polite while some of the young bucks figure out what I am.

After that, we got along splendidly. Some folks just need to get hit with the brick of reality before they can toe the line of Obedience to Me - Lol!

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Labor Attorneys Agree: The Adria Richards Firing Will Be Hard to Defend [View all] Recursion Mar 2013 OP

I always wondered why they fired her too? Rex Mar 2013 #1

The statement was that her job as a "developer evangelist" was to communicate well with developers Recursion Mar 2013 #2

Wow, no written warning or notice? Rex Mar 2013 #3

After script kiddies published her home address and phone number Recursion Mar 2013 #4

I am sure the fired guys are getting death threats etc.. Rex Mar 2013 #5

Funny you should mention that Recursion Mar 2013 #6

Wow. Rex Mar 2013 #8

Yep. Complete strangers. Some of the same ones who threatened Adria Recursion Mar 2013 #10

Can I just say BainsBane Mar 2013 #81

Remember, there's no such thing as male privilege. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #12

<--- White, hetrosexual male that works in the IT field. Rex Mar 2013 #16

Ditto. I'm dubious anybody could be oblivious to it Recursion Mar 2013 #17

Same here. It was so bad at times that I tried other careers Rex Mar 2013 #18

As a woman in IT, I have been a minority for a long time. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #42

No man-splaining has been around for a long time. Rex Mar 2013 #73

Which large telecom? I used to do the one IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #74

Cyberlog Ltd, also known internationally as E-COM.tel Rex Mar 2013 #76

Twice in a day Kelvin Mace Mar 2013 #106

I feel your pain. MadrasT Mar 2013 #107

You work in Kansas City or Salt lake City? uponit7771 Mar 2013 #71

Can I just say BainsBane Mar 2013 #82

again BainsBane Mar 2013 #84

It's funny to watch how "Anonymous" ping-pongs back & forth between brave anti-establishment heroes Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #223

She apparently has a history of not getting along with her co-workers. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #54

My mistake then, I thought I read she excelled at her job. Rex Mar 2013 #63

Well, she is apparently good at her actual job, but as that article points out, she alienates sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #65

Then she does not excel at her job imo. Rex Mar 2013 #68

that could be a bullshit blog with a person with an ax. we do not know anything and her we are seabeyond Mar 2013 #180

who is amanda blum that met (or saw) her once and has issue with the one other time she spoke out? seabeyond Mar 2013 #173

Who was Adria Richards? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2013 #197

a woman that had a job and supposedly a good reputation in that job, that called out sexist behavior seabeyond Mar 2013 #206

Sabrina has never 'sided with sexists'. polly7 Mar 2013 #227

Digging Beneath the Surface: That Amanda Blum Article on Adria Richards is Not What It Seems seabeyond Mar 2013 #230

Thanks for the additional info. +1000 for your whole post. nt. polly7 Mar 2013 #226

Digging Beneath the Surface: That Amanda Blum Article on Adria Richards is Not What It Seems seabeyond Mar 2013 #229

Nothing justifies angry mobs and the author of the article made it clear sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #232

glad to see you backed away from amandas article further damaging richards professional career. seabeyond Mar 2013 #234

I backed away from nothing. She wrote an article which was extremely sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #240

if you backed away from nothing sabrina, it really bottomline, says it all. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #241

In tech, your career is only as relevant as your last project. Xithras Mar 2013 #109

Boy ain't THAT a brutal truth! Rex Mar 2013 #111

You can never stop learning new stuff. Never. CrispyQ Mar 2013 #211

yeah, i'm not clear how the "public shaming was completely within bounds" conclusion was reached. unblock Mar 2013 #13

Agree. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #53

Did they deserve to be fired? These 2 people were at a conference talking to each other. They were Pisces Mar 2013 #138

yeah, it certainly could have been handled that way. otoh, unblock Mar 2013 #141

True, but were the jokes in question so offensive that the public demanded they be fired? In my Pisces Mar 2013 #144

When people in your indsutry are scared to work with you, you won't get much work accomplished Malik Agar Mar 2013 #7

The problem is the male domination of the industry, not her Recursion Mar 2013 #9

+1 gollygee Mar 2013 #14

It wasn't just that Malik Agar Mar 2013 #21

Can I tweet the next teabagger I see with a misspelled sign? Recursion Mar 2013 #24

They mispell sines at protests? Malik Agar Mar 2013 #25

I'm not sure whether you said "sine" ironically or not Recursion Mar 2013 #26

From what I've read she was exceptional at her job. Rex Mar 2013 #11

Which of course had nothing to do with her personality. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #23

Thanks for Posting - I Wondered if Richards Might be a "Difficult" Person to Work W/ dballance Mar 2013 #31

It sounds like Richards was creating the conflict UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #35

It Does Appear That's a Habit dballance Mar 2013 #37

How so? ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #44

Afraid? JTFrog Mar 2013 #51

Your Venomous Post is Exactly Why I Didn't Post in the First Place dballance Mar 2013 #114

Yea, your use of the scare quotes JTFrog Mar 2013 #182

So what did the rest of the Jury have to say? dballance Mar 2013 #225

Nope. n/t JTFrog Mar 2013 #243

You know, You are Absolutely right. dballance Apr 2013 #244

Thank you. JTFrog Apr 2013 #248

Maybe I'm Just Odd dballance Apr 2013 #250

Actually I am wrong, she did not excel at her job at all. Rex Mar 2013 #89

Oh course they are. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #96

There are a lot of idiots and crazy people in RL. Rex Mar 2013 #98

Apparently not many seem to care if they're being investigated or not. redqueen Mar 2013 #102

It is a field dominated by men, some of which are disgusting pigs. Rex Mar 2013 #105

who is amanda blum? one article on a blog made specifically to vilify the woman. seabeyond Mar 2013 #174

Yep, UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #177

not like you ever reply to what i actually post. who the hell is amanda blum and why should seabeyond Mar 2013 #179

Holy shit... this woman STARTED A BLOG *JUST* TO TRASH ADRIA?! redqueen Mar 2013 #193

Digging Beneath the Surface: That Amanda Blum Article on Adria Richards is Not What It Seems seabeyond Mar 2013 #231

i don't know the timing, but it would have been more defensible if they actually lost business first unblock Mar 2013 #15

As long as my co-workers are efficient at their job and maintain professionalism LanternWaste Apr 2013 #252

Negative blowback from the twitter/dongle thing theKed Mar 2013 #19

The alternative was to go out of business LittleBlue Mar 2013 #20

Oh that's bullshit. Andy Fastow has a job now. Recursion Mar 2013 #30

Not if she doesn't change her attitude... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #45

change her attitude BainsBane Mar 2013 #97

Yes, change her attitude... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #103

interact like an adult BainsBane Mar 2013 #117

Adria richards Kurovski Mar 2013 #146

How about that woman BainsBane Mar 2013 #152

This has nothing to do with my post. Kurovski Mar 2013 #153

It has everything to do with it BainsBane Mar 2013 #154

It was the tail-end of a discussion about her ability to find a job. Kurovski Mar 2013 #155

what is the reality? BainsBane Mar 2013 #157

Now you are just talking to yourself. Kurovski Mar 2013 #163

What exactly are you so pissed off about? BainsBane Mar 2013 #164

This assumes the collective forgets this poster child. I suspect they will not. n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #77

Sendgrid sounds incompetent... nebenaube Mar 2013 #55

Ugh... sibelian Mar 2013 #22

Reporting harassment means taking it to management magical thyme Mar 2013 #27

Thank you! Mopar151 Mar 2013 #29

There is such a thing as EEOC labor law BainsBane Apr 2013 #245

You very obviously don't know me. Mopar151 Apr 2013 #247

I only know what you have posted BainsBane Apr 2013 #249

+1 Ridicule was a higher priority than a solution. Such people ARE hard to work with. nt patrice Mar 2013 #32

THANK YOU!!! WolverineDG Mar 2013 #36

The fact that only one of them was is a hint (nt) Recursion Mar 2013 #40

You think both should have been fired? WolverineDG Mar 2013 #43

Just hearing the joke was worthy of punishment JVS Mar 2013 #61

What "management"? They didn't work together Recursion Mar 2013 #39

That would be an email to a specific person or group. Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #46

So we should stop posting pictures of freepers with stupid misspelled signs Recursion Mar 2013 #47

No you should be honest... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #50

Actually he didn't say that BainsBane Mar 2013 #85

Then what did he mean by... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #87

you'd after to ask him BainsBane Mar 2013 #90

I meant she tweeted the picture so staff could see who she was talking about Recursion Mar 2013 #99

While technically true... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #101

Why shouldn't frank be judged for eating my snacks? Recursion Mar 2013 #112

Fine.. go ahead.. no one is stopping you... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #113

Maybe because labor law BainsBane Mar 2013 #125

the picture didn't need to be tweeted for the entire world to see magical thyme Mar 2013 #48

It didn't need not to be, either. You don't have some bizarre "right" to have people... Recursion Mar 2013 #49

defamation of character and libel are not legal magical thyme Mar 2013 #52

Just like she doesn't have some bizarre "right" to keep her job EOTE Mar 2013 #66

I guess public shaming is in vogue. No one should have their privacy invaded by having their picture Pisces Mar 2013 #147

I think that may be illegal in some states also. To put someone's image sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #233

Women who have less tolerance for beavis and butthead are "little miss prisses" and "drama queens"? redqueen Mar 2013 #56

Boys will be boys, don't you know Recursion Mar 2013 #57

Yeah, welcome to Idiocracy. redqueen Mar 2013 #59

she didn't have to tolerate their crudeness. magical thyme Mar 2013 #60

Add to this that she was making far more graphic jokes herself n/t Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #79

Actually I'm srarting to think her reaction was no big deal. redqueen Mar 2013 #62

This is not about tech. People across the spectrum, men and women love to tell a dirty joke. Are we Pisces Mar 2013 #242

No. "Engineer Evangelists" who so lack discretion or think they are so important magical thyme Mar 2013 #58

Right. You call them "Little Miss Priss drama queens" because of the method they choose redqueen Mar 2013 #64

um...whatever. magical thyme Mar 2013 #67

That's because the initial issue was minor at best... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #70

threats of death and rape BainsBane Mar 2013 #133

When you find someone who says or agrees with that claptrap... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #149

whereas threats of rape and death BainsBane Mar 2013 #130

exactly where did I say that was acceptable? that's right. no where. magical thyme Mar 2013 #198

That's reporting it, complaining about you don't have to and BOTH are protected under the law whethe uponit7771 Mar 2013 #72

Hear hear! nt Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #78

+1 Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #108

In my day, kids fought. Nobody insisted that we "play nice with each other" or "use our words". ZOB Mar 2013 #28

^== This. NT IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #38

let me get this straight BainsBane Mar 2013 #95

Some of AR's defenders should ask themselves what their reaction would be if sex roles in this patrice Mar 2013 #33

"Pic of hot girl at the con" has its own hashtag Recursion Mar 2013 #41

I'm not her defender BainsBane Mar 2013 #88

+1 redqueen Mar 2013 #94

No, she didn't "tell on a man". jeff47 Mar 2013 #158

So tweeting isn't telling? BainsBane Mar 2013 #159

As I said, tweeting it is shouting from the mountaintops, through a megaphone, or whatever metaphor jeff47 Mar 2013 #165

your response is far more balanced BainsBane Mar 2013 #167

She didn't just quote him. She complained about it. jeff47 Mar 2013 #170

she called out the sexist crap. against convention policy and the man company policy. seabeyond Mar 2013 #176

Again, the appropriate response was not to be a worse person jeff47 Mar 2013 #183

lmfao.. ya, cause telling a man that is throwing out sexist crap in an environment he KNOWs seabeyond Mar 2013 #186

So she's just a child, being crushed by evil, evil men every day at her work? jeff47 Mar 2013 #194

So she's just a child, being crushed by evil, evil men every day at her work? seabeyond Mar 2013 #207

They don't have to jeff47 Mar 2013 #160

what? if i told racist jokes? against company policy? and i was called out? i would expect my ass seabeyond Mar 2013 #175

You don't have to ask: Dr. Strange Mar 2013 #185

I don't know how other people handle it, but where I work taking an work issue to thousands... JVS Mar 2013 #34

Classic divide and conquer management techniques on display greatlaurel Mar 2013 #69

She had only worked for SendGrid for a little over a 12 months FarCenter Mar 2013 #75

wouldn't that be part of communications? BainsBane Mar 2013 #83

To be a "developer evangelist" you need to be a developer first FarCenter Mar 2013 #100

okay, but that would appear more relevant BainsBane Mar 2013 #115

When you make a bad hiring decision, you have to fix it as soon as it becomes evident. FarCenter Mar 2013 #118

and that wouldn't pertain to the male BainsBane Mar 2013 #120

It would if the "numerous infractions" is true. FarCenter Mar 2013 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Mar 2013 #126

This is all speculation BainsBane Mar 2013 #127

We know a great deal about Adria Richards; we know far less about the guy FarCenter Mar 2013 #140

I can't see how what he looks like is remotely relevant BainsBane Mar 2013 #143

And she has worked at WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #110

MSNBC reported BainsBane Mar 2013 #80

I wouldn't hire this woman if I were paid to do so Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #86

How did she "get the guy fired"? BainsBane Mar 2013 #91

In general accusations of the kind you just made say more about the accuser than the accused Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #92

How did she get the guy fired? BainsBane Mar 2013 #93

Did you see this? redqueen Mar 2013 #104

I'm sure anon will DDOS his employer any day now Recursion Mar 2013 #116

Edited: I see it now BainsBane Mar 2013 #119

Sorry Bains, been busy. For details of what happened see this thread Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #131

that's not details BainsBane Mar 2013 #132

My take? Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #134

so how does that amount to "getting him fired"? BainsBane Mar 2013 #135

Your questions Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #137

again BainsBane Mar 2013 #139

You are all over the place on this. Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #148

so you now are omniscient BainsBane Mar 2013 #156

Respectfully, I suggest... Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #204

And then on the most simple level BainsBane Mar 2013 #162

I would have thought that would be an easy question to answer BainsBane Mar 2013 #128

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a "dongle" and "forking" mean? waddirum Mar 2013 #121

no BainsBane Mar 2013 #122

For the curious Recursion Mar 2013 #124

FYI FarCenter Mar 2013 #142

very interesting waddirum Mar 2013 #150

All parties involved handled this poorly. No one should have been fired and she should not have Pisces Mar 2013 #129

+1 n/t tammywammy Mar 2013 #136

and how often do men knock off their sexist bullshit when a woman says... knock it off? seabeyond Mar 2013 #178

I worked in a male dominated field and they will knock it off if you tell them to directly and with Pisces Mar 2013 #188

if you look at the picture, she is a great enough distance there was no personal whispering of the seabeyond Mar 2013 #189

They were one row behind her. I have been to conferences before and that is not a great distance. Pisces Mar 2013 #190

they were behind, to the side. it is not her job to give them the "opportunity" to behave properly seabeyond Mar 2013 #191

I don't disagree that the tech industry has a bad rep. She was not on her job. These are not her Pisces Mar 2013 #192

creating a hostile work environment is seldom so direct as to be speaking to the woman. sexists seabeyond Mar 2013 #205

And if a female made the joke, and it made people uncomfortable, it would also be harassment Recursion Mar 2013 #216

It was not on the job. It was at a conference, not her co-workers, not directed at her or about her. Pisces Mar 2013 #228

"And with conviction" Recursion Mar 2013 #215

JOAN OF ARC OF THE DONGLES will come out of this just fine, I'm sure. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #145

She's already got a following here ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2013 #196

and the fact that she got death threats, of course, justifies her making a giant stink Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #212

she twittered, not cool. OMG.... GIANT stink. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #217

so now you're in favor of posting peoples' pictures on the internet without their consent? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #218

geez, you do not get it, but knew you were trippin to say this line. GIANT STINK. seabeyond Mar 2013 #219

she posted their picture without their consent. Apparently you're okay with that sort of thing. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #220

it is a waste of time to even begin to educate you. hence, me focusing on the giant stink, seabeyond Mar 2013 #221

Physician, Educate thyself. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #222

And herein lies the problem... opiate69 Mar 2013 #235

just doin' what skinner suggested. not gonna hunt his post. seabeyond Mar 2013 #236

Ahh!!! I spent 15 minutes typing that, on my phone no less and all I get is one sentence?? opiate69 Mar 2013 #237

arent those phones seabeyond Mar 2013 #238

Man.. I want an iPhone... opiate69 Mar 2013 #239

Keep spewing the hate guys greatlaurel Mar 2013 #151

If what the guy said is no big deal? BainsBane Mar 2013 #161

Because it's not the appropriate level of response. jeff47 Mar 2013 #166

I'm not defending her decision to put it on Twitter BainsBane Mar 2013 #168

She wasn't just quoting him. She was also complaining about the joke. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #169

okay, so she complained BainsBane Mar 2013 #171

There were several levels of overreaction in this story. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #172

And this is where you seem to be missing the issue WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #195

That's a very good point BainsBane Mar 2013 #203

I look at it this way WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #208

of the two guys BainsBane Mar 2013 #209

It's irrelevant WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #210

the joke wasn't appropriate either BainsBane Mar 2013 #199

Because the Internet is a unified body with similar goals and ideals? jeff47 Mar 2013 #201

Because twitter is the kind of place that has unhinged people who... JVS Mar 2013 #181

that doesn't explain why people here so despise Richards BainsBane Mar 2013 #200

that's not what you asked JVS Mar 2013 #202

Question: Why does she get a free pass on sexual harassment? Taverner Mar 2013 #214

The employer chose to fire one of the men BainsBane Apr 2013 #246

She made herself a toxic Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #184

She didn't "make herself" a toxic employee. sufrommich Mar 2013 #187

So much for anonymous as heroes, huh. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #224

I don't know, I perceived her tweet as sexual harassment Taverner Mar 2013 #213

I looked up "mountain out of a mole hill" SomethingFishy Apr 2013 #251