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In reply to the discussion: Woman fined for hitting man who grabbed her [View all]Orrex
(66,611 posts)76. Well, if that was his instinctive reaction, you already excused it.
But otherwise I agree. If he can't control such instinctive reactions, then he needs some sort of restaint.
Of course, that assumes that he grabbed her as she alleges. Apparently there was insufficient evidence to charge him, so we have only her account of the event.
I imagine men get pissed off by unwanted sexual touching too, but I am not a man and I don't know specifically how they feel about it. I felt threatened by it when it happened to me. I don't know if men feel that way so I don't know what would be a normal response for them. When it happened to me, I felt threatened and went into "fight or flight", and as the place was crowded, "fight" won out. I can only speak for my own experience. I can't make assumptions about how someone else would feel.
I can likewise only speculate about how others would respond. When it has happened to me, I haven't felt physically threatened, but I have felt very uncomfortable. Part of that was because I simply didn't welcome the contact, but I was also instantly aware that I had to be exteremely careful in my response. Too strong a reaction would be interpreted as assault, but if my response were too weak then the contact might persist, or else my weak response might, in that context, have called my masculinity or heterosexuality into question.
Some in this thread (though not you) have suggested that men do not object to such contact or that they can shrug it off as inconsequential. In reality the situation is more complex than that.
Perhaps because I did not perceive an immediate physical threat, the "fight or flight" response wasn't part of the equation.
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If you hope that I defend that guy or engage with you in a flame-war about rape, forget it.
DetlefK
Mar 2013
#89
The law also allows for "fighting words" (granted, the OP is in regards to Sweden)
Nuclear Unicorn
Mar 2013
#94
However, just because her response resulted in injury doesn't mean it was retribution.
antigone382
Mar 2013
#98
Congratulations, jurors #5 and #6 for proudly making the DU jury system even more of a bad joke.
Comrade Grumpy
Mar 2013
#180
And that would presumably include the instinctive reaction of a sexual assault victim.
yellowcanine
Mar 2013
#161
That is contingent on the court buying her defense, which they didn't. Since they didn't buy it...
JVS
Mar 2013
#167
and isnt that always the way, hence the feel that there are no repercussion to sexual assault
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#171
Well I guess they didn't. But they are wrong and I hope the appeal is successful.
yellowcanine
Mar 2013
#175
Yes....(as is everyone on trial)..... no. The point is a competent lawyer should be able to
yellowcanine
Mar 2013
#185
No, it's appropriate for her to smack him with her bare hands, closed fist or open
MillennialDem
Mar 2013
#92
A few days ago I was afraid redqueen's posts about "rape culture" were hyperbolic
Nuclear Unicorn
Mar 2013
#125
I have little doubt that you have convinced yourself that to be the case.
LanternWaste
Mar 2013
#116
If she grabbed his ass he would have a valid reason to react by slapping her.
Gormy Cuss
Mar 2013
#192
and i definately agree with you, this is a 2 way street BUT why and lets not pretend that the threat
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#194
If every woman who was on the receiving end of SEXUAL ASSAULT gave her attacker a broken nose
kestrel91316
Mar 2013
#105
Instinctively? I've had my unwantedly grabbed before in a bar by a drunken asshole
cali
Mar 2013
#35
I can't remember how many times I'd have a tray of drinks in one hand and a pitcher
polly7
Mar 2013
#53
If people can't control themselves to keep themselves from grabbing someone's ass
gollygee
Mar 2013
#63
I've yet to meet a guy who had a problem with a woman grabbing his ass in a bar.
UnrepentantLiberal
Mar 2013
#12
This is the most perfect example of wilful misunderstanding I have ever seen.
sibelian
Mar 2013
#204
You clearly need to start hanging out with a different class of guys then.
yellowcanine
Mar 2013
#147
Well you clearly don't respect them so it is not surprising if they don't respect you.
yellowcanine
Mar 2013
#162
ah, but there is a vested interest in maintaining the macho, whistle/grab womans ass stereotype
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#174
Yeah I wondered about that and resented it a bit because I used to work in construction.
yellowcanine
Mar 2013
#177
a guess, yes. i see no other reason for your statement about construction workers. ranting/raving?
seabeyond
Mar 2013
#198
The court agreed that she was subject to "serious provocation," i.e., butt-grabbing.
Vattel
Mar 2013
#18
According to the OP she only slapped him. Once. Which is understandable, considering.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2013
#193
When I was in college, I went to a frat party at the University of Vermont.
smirkymonkey
Mar 2013
#213