General Discussion

MineralMan

(151,495 posts)

41. For me, the issue is about drawing any sort of conclusion

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:27 AM

Mar 2013

from limited information in an original news story.

A child is dead. Shot to death. That is my focus. How that death occurred is a matter for a thorough investigation by the police and others. Why should we form any sort of conclusions about what happened, based on almost no information? Especially, why should we immediately suspect the mother of killing her own child and shooting herself in the leg?

I'm very troubled by this. We will find out what happened in due time. Speculation and theories about this terrible incident are worthless. What is of value is information, and we had almost no information, other than the mother's story.

Whoever did this, I hope the investigation makes it clear. Until it does, all I know is that a very young child was shot to death. Isn't that enough? Why must we try to guess what happened and who killed the child? We'll find out. Until then, let's just mourn the death and leave the conclusions to those who are doing the investigation.

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OK. About the Georgia murder of the toddler. [View all] cali Mar 2013 OP

To me it's that she was shot in the leg while the baby was killed. vi5 Mar 2013 #1

Same thing happened in Johannesburg, S.A. mainer Mar 2013 #42

I thought she said she had been shot already, at an earlier date librechik Mar 2013 #83

First, the suspects "fled on foot". Then they were "in a car". mainer Mar 2013 #121

If the alleged shooters were white, no one on DU would raise questions. nt Generation_Why Mar 2013 #2

perhaps. but there has been a history and a long one at that cali Mar 2013 #3

Thank you Cali JustAnotherGen Mar 2013 #56

You are most welcome. cali Mar 2013 #58

NAH! A child getting shot in their stroller would never get a reaction, no matter who involved. devilgrrl Mar 2013 #122

You should honestly ask yourself if you are prejudiced. It appears to me that you are. nt patrice Mar 2013 #150

She didn't take her child's ashes? lynne Mar 2013 #4

Her 18-year-old was stabbed after HE tried to stab someone mainer Mar 2013 #11

"How soon do you think life insurance policy will send me a check?" Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #5

Funeral expenses Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #8

OK.... I admit, that had not occurred to me. (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #9

If she had to go through timdog44 Mar 2013 #190

Thank you. onyourleft Mar 2013 #13

For poor people, it's almost the first thing they do Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #15

poor people usually don't have insurance on their children. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #296

There is no need to wait any length of time at all. A funeral home can/will assist in filling out bike man Mar 2013 #16

Yep Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2013 #105

A funeral home or equvalent might or might not help csziggy Mar 2013 #146

Notice in the post you responded to ". . .A funeral home can/will. . .", but it may well be bike man Mar 2013 #209

Somehow I don't see most funeral home operators as generous types csziggy Mar 2013 #219

YMMV. My experiences show that to be true. nt bike man Mar 2013 #222

My in laws filed Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #287

This message was self-deleted by its author timdog44 Mar 2013 #19

It is if you are poor. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #221

I'm with you on this malaise Mar 2013 #6

I'm sure you already know what I think. randome Mar 2013 #7

Maybe I'll burn in hell for this, but I still have my suspicions regarding bullwinkle428 Mar 2013 #10

No way of knowing Crepuscular Mar 2013 #12

The Susan Smith saga looms over this one, as does the case in Boston LeftinOH Mar 2013 #14

Might be enough for an investigation treestar Mar 2013 #17

On that note Separation Mar 2013 #63

This is a ghoulish, depraved post. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #18

Oh, hogwash ..... oldhippie Mar 2013 #20

depraved? ghoulish? Could you possibly be more of a hysteric? Uh, no. You could not. cali Mar 2013 #21

The use of the boy's fathers quote is ghoulish. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #22

No it is not ..... oldhippie Mar 2013 #24

The OP suggested that the mom killed the son. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #27

No, it doesn't. I state quite clearly that I could be wrong cali Mar 2013 #28

The daughter who was in a different state when this happened? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #32

so what if the daughter was in another state? cali Mar 2013 #33

I imagine through the same psychic powers YOU use to KNOW she is GUILTY. CBGLuthier Mar 2013 #35

Can you read? Do go read what I said at the top of the OP cali Mar 2013 #37

It appears you did not read the OP ..... oldhippie Mar 2013 #47

daughter's state of mind geek tragedy Mar 2013 #44

really? and you know that the daughter is LYING, how exactly? cali Mar 2013 #46

Facts: The mother was tested for gunpowder geek tragedy Mar 2013 #49

I never suspected the mother of firing the gun cali Mar 2013 #50

The police never said she was one. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #52

guess what? not being named by the police as a suspect is far different cali Mar 2013 #57

There are exactly zero pieces of evidence pointing geek tragedy Mar 2013 #61

Wow. So now the likes of YOU have all the evidence that the police have? Yikes. cali Mar 2013 #64

Can you name one piece of evidence pointing to geek tragedy Mar 2013 #78

Have I claimed there is evidence? Why no. cali Mar 2013 #90

So, why multiple posts stating that you suspect the mother's involvement? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #92

My suspicion is based on history, behavior, comments from various parties. cali Mar 2013 #106

History and behavior? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #109

History as in Susan Smith and Charles Stuart. cali Mar 2013 #115

So, every claim by a white woman that geek tragedy Mar 2013 #120

gad. do stop flailing desperately. It's sad. cali Mar 2013 #125

You've claimed that you never accused her of shooting the baby. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #131

I've never accused her of shooting the baby. cali Mar 2013 #133

Her hiring the kids would not be a Susan Smith scenario. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #137

OK, it would be a Charles Stuart scenario. cali Mar 2013 #191

Children's life insurance geek tragedy Mar 2013 #194

More cali Mar 2013 #199

asdf geek tragedy Mar 2013 #202

It's the most plausible. It certainly is NOT the only plausible scenario, genius. cali Mar 2013 #205

There is a difference between implausible and impossible. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #208

So a girl is removed from her mother's custody when she's 8 and it's her fault for EOTE Mar 2013 #77

And all of that has diddly fuck to do with the claim that geek tragedy Mar 2013 #79

YOU are the one who is bringing up all the bullshit and strawmen. EOTE Mar 2013 #84

You seem awfully emotionally invested in the need geek tragedy Mar 2013 #86

You seem awfully emotionally invested in clearing the mother. EOTE Mar 2013 #91

Okay, those suggesting that the mother is guilty geek tragedy Mar 2013 #95

The OP did a damn good job of showing why the mom should be looked at very closely. EOTE Mar 2013 #100

The OP posted nothing that implicates the mother. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #103

So you admit to making shit up to bolster your argument? EOTE Mar 2013 #107

Choke on it. You called me a liar for saying the truth. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #265

Choke on it? Pathetic. EOTE Mar 2013 #288

No one is claiming that. What I and others are saying is that cali Mar 2013 #85

It's a possibility that Charlie Sheen arranged it to. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #88

oh for fuck's sake. are you trying to demonstrate that you have no cali Mar 2013 #93

Remind us again why there's reason to suspect geek tragedy Mar 2013 #98

Where did the police clear the mother? EOTE Mar 2013 #96

The police tested her for gunpowder residue. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #101

Ahhhh, so you are utterly full of bullshit. EOTE Mar 2013 #104

Until you can provide any evidence that she had contact geek tragedy Mar 2013 #108

YOU are the one making the bullshit statements. EOTE Mar 2013 #110

You need to calm down. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #111

Ahhh, so adults make false claims which are easily identified? EOTE Mar 2013 #113

So now you're claiming knowledge of what kind of role models geek tragedy Mar 2013 #116

Just making an educated guess. EOTE Mar 2013 #118

They've been cleared of suspicion in shooting geek tragedy Mar 2013 #126

Another lie. EOTE Mar 2013 #132

Yes, yes, everyone who pokes holes in your hysteria geek tragedy Mar 2013 #136

No, you're a liar because you repeatedly tell lies. EOTE Mar 2013 #138

Are you seriously contending that it's a lie geek tragedy Mar 2013 #141

Yes, that's one of the many lies you've been peddling. EOTE Mar 2013 #144

I'm sorry that you can't handle logical inferences geek tragedy Mar 2013 #155

There is NO inference here, it's an important, legal distinction. EOTE Mar 2013 #161

Sherry West was herself shot twice. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #164

Another lie? Do you get tired of them? EOTE Mar 2013 #166

Is it possible for a person to shoot themself geek tragedy Mar 2013 #168

Yes, it's very possible. EOTE Mar 2013 #170

How easy is it to shoot yourself twice geek tragedy Mar 2013 #173

Please admit to your numerous lies. Maybe then we'll get somewhere. EOTE Mar 2013 #175

Heh, you just shriek insults when unable geek tragedy Mar 2013 #180

You expect me to continue to show how incredibly ignorant you are of facts... EOTE Mar 2013 #182

The police cleared her. That is a fact. Your incessant geek tragedy Mar 2013 #252

put up or....stop posting made up shit. cali Mar 2013 #140

She's been cleared as the person who pulled the trigger. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #143

You're more than welcome to back up that claim. But as lies are all you have, you won't. EOTE Mar 2013 #151

lol. so you can't post the link to the non-existent police statement clearing her cali Mar 2013 #152

She's been cleared as being the triggerperson, and geek tragedy Mar 2013 #156

But of course you know I never suggested she was the trigger person and YOU fucking well cali Mar 2013 #162

The daughter has no factual information geek tragedy Mar 2013 #165

After reading this whole thread, I must say ...... oldhippie Mar 2013 #163

Hey, cut the poster some slack. If he wasn't allowed to lie, he wouldn't be able to participate at EOTE Mar 2013 #167

ain't that the truth. cali Mar 2013 #193

No, Team VictimBlamer are the ones looking like idiots geek tragedy Mar 2013 #228

Both parents were tested and their home searched maddezmom Mar 2013 #112

If we imagine she was the triggerperson, there geek tragedy Mar 2013 #158

Is it possible she hired them? Yes. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #142

"is the neighborhood dangerous? If so, why was she there?" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #145

I don't think the people marions ghost Mar 2013 #153

If I read the original story correctly, IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #178

Most muggings and robberies are random. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #181

Hmm. Perhaps I watch too much Law & Order. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #196

I have no idea how I would act if someone threatened me with a gun. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #197

Agreed about the evil. I am convinced (as a mother) IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #207

Not sure what she could have done to protect the baby geek tragedy Mar 2013 #210

You flip the stroller around behind you. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #214

So this is really about her not doing what we geek tragedy Mar 2013 #269

+++! Awesome post. So very! constructive and useful. Thanks for helping others. patrice Mar 2013 #183

Hi Ida Kelvin Mace Mar 2013 #188

Okay, you just lost this whole thing right here. Not all probabilities are equally probable & I'm patrice Mar 2013 #171

What's the current theory on the mother geek tragedy Mar 2013 #174

IF she solicited them to do it, it was probably expected that they'd get away & she would not ID patrice Mar 2013 #186

Seems vanishingly unlikely. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #189

"Walking a baby" in the dark? Way less likely. & I bet poor people DO rob one another, but that patrice Mar 2013 #216

She was walking back from the post office. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #217

Oh, he lost 'it' a long time ago. EOTE Mar 2013 #179

It's the daughter's statement that gave me pause, not the father's Hekate Mar 2013 #184

But, let's look at what the daugher identified as suspicious. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #187

"I've forgiven her" -- for what? IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #213

I think Geek Tragedy makes a good point. ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #232

ghouls of DU Trajan Mar 2013 #29

+1,000,000 devilgrrl Mar 2013 #114

Burn! EOTE Mar 2013 #148

Well, yeah, I save my scorn for murderers like Dorner geek tragedy Mar 2013 #176

Yes there are ghouls, but to some people it's like a mystery and others are interested in how patrice Mar 2013 #159

This crime is extremely "high risk" LeftInTX Mar 2013 #23

Thanks for reminding me what is pissing me off about some folk's reactions CBGLuthier Mar 2013 #36

Nobody on DU has the right to claim they know what happened. Quantess Mar 2013 #25

There are a lot of suspicions here. timdog44 Mar 2013 #26

should not be about the mother? Why? cali Mar 2013 #30

Anymore than we know why the mother said what she said. timdog44 Mar 2013 #38

Phrasing: "who had to give her up" - uh, no. She was TAKEN AWAY IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #147

There is a legal presumption of innocence, but, to be fair, I think cali is proposing something that patrice Mar 2013 #192

In my gut timdog44 Mar 2013 #195

yep. I just think the mother should be thoroughly investigated cali Mar 2013 #203

The police cleared the mother. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #253

why do you keep repeating that falsehood? cali Mar 2013 #256

Because I'm better informed than you geek tragedy Mar 2013 #259

"at this time she is not a suspect" cali Mar 2013 #263

as predicted, you're now torturing "not a suspect" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #264

Pony up the link that explicitly states that, please. Otherwise, it is INDETERMINATE which is a patrice Mar 2013 #258

Here's your pony. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #260

There's something wrong with you. Asking questions is not hate. Saying she is not a suspect is not patrice Mar 2013 #267

We don't have court hearings to prove that people geek tragedy Mar 2013 #268

I'll be suspicious if I want to. Are_grits_groceries Mar 2013 #31

I am rooting for the truth too. timdog44 Mar 2013 #51

That's how I see it as well. nt Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #272

Skepticism when the facts are still coming out is fair. But this taps into something a lot deeper RZM Mar 2013 #34

I believe the evidence clearly shows that Amanda Knox is totally innocent (eom) StevieM Mar 2013 #247

The funds from a baby insurance policy aren't enough to pay for a hit. dkf Mar 2013 #39

that's not what quite a few experts say cali Mar 2013 #201

I probably shouldn't chime in, but I will. Whisp Mar 2013 #40

I think that it was stated timdog44 Mar 2013 #54

I didn't know that. Whisp Mar 2013 #67

I don't think that makes your post timdog44 Mar 2013 #76

I didn't take your post negatively toward my post. Whisp Mar 2013 #87

I have to say sometimes timdog44 Mar 2013 #99

No it doesn't. With so little real information, everything in this thread is about probabilities. patrice Mar 2013 #204

For me, the issue is about drawing any sort of conclusion MineralMan Mar 2013 #41

Thank You. marions ghost Mar 2013 #70

Yes. I'm waiting to see what the investigation shows. MineralMan Mar 2013 #72

My thought on that is marions ghost Mar 2013 #89

Exactly. If whoever shot that child had no gun, MineralMan Mar 2013 #139

And these poor neighborhoods are full of guns. marions ghost Mar 2013 #160

Thank you for this wisdom! csziggy Mar 2013 #157

Wait a minute - if it wasn't for speculation, no one would even know bullwinkle428 Mar 2013 #218

We should never believe any victim, ever Union Scribe Mar 2013 #43

That's what any homicide cop would do mainer Mar 2013 #94

But nobody in this thread is a homicide cop. MineralMan Mar 2013 #149

How do you know?!!! mainer Mar 2013 #281

Not for shits and giggles it isn't. Union Scribe Mar 2013 #225

And interesting that the first thing they did was check Mom for GSR mainer Mar 2013 #280

I never said they didn't check her out. Union Scribe Mar 2013 #291

For some of us, it's not merely entertainment. mainer Mar 2013 #293

You are not alone. MattBaggins Mar 2013 #45

Any time a kid with life insurance is murdered... mainer Mar 2013 #48

good post. n/t Whisp Mar 2013 #53

My parents had insurance policies on all of thier kids. GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #200

Life insurance is cheaper than a funeral?!!! mainer Mar 2013 #283

Burials and cremations are expensive. A cheap insurance policy is not. GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #284

One quote i found for life insurance for a kid was $18 a month mainer Mar 2013 #289

Wow! You looked at one whole quote! GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #290

"Life insurance policies you should never buy" mainer Mar 2013 #292

I am not throwing my money away. GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #294

Sherry West is bipolar and schizophrenic HipChick Mar 2013 #55

Her daughter was taken from her for neglect. And she raised a sociopath. mainer Mar 2013 #59

You are not alone in that assessment, many here seem to believe Rex Mar 2013 #60

I think she may be involved. There is a crucial difference between cali Mar 2013 #62

True and from all the recent information that has come to light Rex Mar 2013 #65

She was not working, and was on disability, why would she make having insurance on her kid HipChick Mar 2013 #68

Infant life insurance adds up to about $18 a month mainer Mar 2013 #74

Do we actually know she had insurance on her child? cali Mar 2013 #81

We only know she asked her daughter when the insurance would pay out. mainer Mar 2013 #82

if she was not working on disability - then she'd be getting checks for the kid too. bettyellen Mar 2013 #124

Any investigator would hear alarm bells going off DevonRex Mar 2013 #128

Ya that disturbed me too. Rex Mar 2013 #134

well said. cali Mar 2013 #154

If she was smart and calculating marions ghost Mar 2013 #169

What bothers me equally is the 14-y-o suspect* someone saw leaving in a car DevonRex Mar 2013 #185

High visibility case marions ghost Mar 2013 #206

Fried chicken? DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #66

That was also strange.. HipChick Mar 2013 #69

There are a lot of armchair detectives online. liberalmuse Mar 2013 #71

easy peasy. ignore those threads if you find them "tiresome" cali Mar 2013 #73

Sounds like a solution. n/t AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #117

I think it is good for people to think. That's part of what makes it possible to learn how to care. patrice Mar 2013 #215

I see nothing in either piece to indicate signs the mother is lying BainsBane Mar 2013 #75

Did they find the gun? I have not really followed this . likesmountains 52 Mar 2013 #80

SMH Mr Dixon Mar 2013 #97

And leaves the witness alive. mainer Mar 2013 #102

Someone who would murder a baby in a robbery attempt might not be the sharpest tool in the shed slackmaster Mar 2013 #119

Her talking is going to get her in trouble. Are_grits_groceries Mar 2013 #129

a serious question directed to those who think the mother's story doesn't add up onenote Mar 2013 #123

No, there's no evidence, but it's odd that her daughter is uncomfortable with the story. cali Mar 2013 #130

IMO Mr Dixon Mar 2013 #135

Did suspects run or did they drive? Contradictions! mainer Mar 2013 #127

Regarding the anonymous tipster.... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #172

The only thing that bothers me Sissyk Mar 2013 #250

Doesn't to me. But then, I'm autistic. Many people would look at how I react in grief... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #273

Excellent post, Moonwalk! Sissyk Mar 2013 #276

Amazingly, they found the gun! geek tragedy Mar 2013 #227

There's just not a whole lot of evidence from what I can tell Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #177

When decided by a mob, cases get settled very quickly. Kurovski Mar 2013 #198

"the possible fact that the mother was responsible" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #223

If you want to talk to me, then address me directly. Kurovski Mar 2013 #229

You bashed the 'mob' coming to the geek tragedy Mar 2013 #230

An asshole sounds like this: Kurovski Mar 2013 #233

Let's see if you answer this simple question: geek tragedy Mar 2013 #234

Because I'm not as entirely certain as you that she was "forced" to do anything. Kurovski Mar 2013 #239

Eh, you bought into the blame the victim nonsense geek tragedy Mar 2013 #242

And there's your happy ending. Kurovski Mar 2013 #244

If it makes people less likely to blame the victims geek tragedy Mar 2013 #245

Fapulous! Kurovski Mar 2013 #254

Pssst. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #255

The story is still not over. Kurovski Mar 2013 #266

"the story is still not over" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #271

Well stated ...... oldhippie Mar 2013 #236

I am enjoying your logic Soundman Mar 2013 #237

really? I'm a troll> That's absurd. And no, I don't post flame bait. care to point out cali Mar 2013 #238

Mom and aunt of suspect have informed the police where the gun is cabot Mar 2013 #211

exactly. The people blaming the mother for this have been beyond vile. nt alphafemale Mar 2013 #224

please point out what is vile about this: cali Mar 2013 #240

The fact that you've been peddling innuendo about the geek tragedy Mar 2013 #243

Aside from the fact that I'm not particularly interested in your response cali Mar 2013 #248

Police: Sherry West is not a suspect. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #249

They have the perps they have the gun matched to the casings. alphafemale Mar 2013 #251

No, it's not cut and dried at this time. It may become cut and dried cali Mar 2013 #257

No. You have just implied that an impoverished woman arranged to have her baby shot in the face. alphafemale Mar 2013 #262

To be fair, you don't need to admit being wrong about anything no matter how this turns out. randome Mar 2013 #212

Good point. Rex Mar 2013 #226

The problem is poverty, kids who go bad, drugs and marions ghost Mar 2013 #220

I'm with you. The story doesn't sit well with me Catherina Mar 2013 #231

I guess we should trust your word salad over geek tragedy Mar 2013 #241

All hail Mr Tragedy who just throws unfounded crap out hoping something will stick Catherina Mar 2013 #270

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #274

Good God. Do you ever stop lying? Catherina Mar 2013 #277

'Embroidery' is a good word. randome Mar 2013 #246

As it should. Catherina Mar 2013 #275

Well, by all means, if his defense lawyer claims him to be innocent, he must be! LisaL Mar 2013 #278

I know you, Cali, and Greek Tragedy have some strong disagreements, ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #235

I've seen some really repugnant posts that blame the victim over the years here, MadHound Mar 2013 #261

I am very suspicious. bravenak Mar 2013 #279

It may depend on the state or locality, too, but your information is welcome. randome Mar 2013 #282

The aunt of the suspect turned the kid in... dkf Mar 2013 #285

I know little about this story Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #286

Here's why some DUers were logically eyeing the mother mainer Mar 2013 #295