General Discussion

DetlefK

(16,670 posts)

89. If you hope that I defend that guy or engage with you in a flame-war about rape, forget it.

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:19 AM

Mar 2013

My point is: His assault on her human rights and her physical attack on his nose are not comparable.
Did he deserve it? Yes.
Was it legal? No.
Why? Because our society is not built upon retaliation.
You cannot weigh mental damages, physical damages and monetary damages against each other.
You cannot compile a list, which kind of battery were the appropriate response to which kind of sexual assault.
You cannot compile a list, how much in monetary damages wre the appropriate response to a beating.
And you cannot compile a list, how long of a prison-term were appropriate for a theft of a particular amount of money.

He behaved like scum and deserved on a moral level what happened to him in that particular situation. But just because he chose to act outside of the moral/social/legal limits of society, that doesn't mean that she's no longer bound to the legal limits of society when exacting revenge on him.

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Woman fined for hitting man who grabbed her [View all] The Straight Story Mar 2013 OP

I think, the point might be that she broke his nose... DetlefK Mar 2013 #1

Perhaps - but if someone grabs you and you reply in defense The Straight Story Mar 2013 #2

So? He had no right to sexually assault her. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #64

You can't use "eye-for-an-eye" here: She was not physically hurt. DetlefK Mar 2013 #74

. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #80

If you hope that I defend that guy or engage with you in a flame-war about rape, forget it. DetlefK Mar 2013 #89

The law also allows for "fighting words" (granted, the OP is in regards to Sweden) Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #94

However, just because her response resulted in injury doesn't mean it was retribution. antigone382 Mar 2013 #98

It's retribution to those who think they're netitled. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #127

He assaulted her. She struck back. Gormy Cuss Mar 2013 #129

Ass grabbing is an aggravated assault? AAO Mar 2013 #207

You are correct. It's assault and battery Gormy Cuss Mar 2013 #210

No worries, GC! AAO Mar 2013 #212

And if he had of grabbed your grandmother's breasts... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2013 #159

Oh, bullshit. tabasco Mar 2013 #209

Would she have been justified in killing him? Orrex Mar 2013 #96

How much should she be required to just lie back and try to relax? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #100

She should be permitted to take reasonable action to end the incident Orrex Mar 2013 #113

His rights are to keep his hands to himself. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #124

So there are no limits to retaliation? Really? Orrex Mar 2013 #135

Oh, go fuck yourself Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #139

You might at least have the decency to understand my point first Orrex Mar 2013 #141

Juror #5 - Reporting! ellisonz Mar 2013 #145

Number 6 here! Rowdyboy Mar 2013 #149

Hey there #6 - you said it better than I could in the moment. ellisonz Mar 2013 #151

Congratulations, jurors #5 and #6 for proudly making the DU jury system even more of a bad joke. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #180

You're welcome. n/t ellisonz Mar 2013 #182

Thank-you to you as well. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #155

ahhhhhhh seabeyond Mar 2013 #166

DELETED, POSTED IN WRONG PLACE Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #178

Thank-you. I appreciate your consideration Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #153

well.... seabeyond Mar 2013 #168

Normally slapping someone would not break their nose. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #126

Defendants take their victims as they find them. JVS Mar 2013 #150

And that would presumably include the instinctive reaction of a sexual assault victim. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #161

That is contingent on the court buying her defense, which they didn't. Since they didn't buy it... JVS Mar 2013 #167

and isnt that always the way, hence the feel that there are no repercussion to sexual assault seabeyond Mar 2013 #171

Well I guess they didn't. But they are wrong and I hope the appeal is successful. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #175

So she's presumed to be innocent and he's presumed to be guilty. Interesting. Orrex Mar 2013 #176

Yes....(as is everyone on trial)..... no. The point is a competent lawyer should be able to yellowcanine Mar 2013 #185

How do we know this? Orrex Mar 2013 #187

Cross examination is supposed to reveal who is telling the truth. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #199

Is it possible that the court *did* find out the truth? Orrex Mar 2013 #201

Nominate for best response post of the year theHandpuppet Mar 2013 #163

"Not physically hurt". Try saying that to Ilsa Mar 2013 #81

+1000. nt. polly7 Mar 2013 #85

No, it's appropriate for her to smack him with her bare hands, closed fist or open MillennialDem Mar 2013 #92

Grabbing a woman's butt is sexual assault. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #122

A few days ago I was afraid redqueen's posts about "rape culture" were hyperbolic Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #125

+1 LiberalLoner Mar 2013 #130

+1 Tien1985 Mar 2013 #164

His nose would be intact if he didn't go around grabbing women's butts. Beacool Mar 2013 #77

Agreed! csziggy Mar 2013 #115

had it been me.. AsahinaKimi Mar 2013 #148

Exactly appleannie1 Mar 2013 #183

Maybe dip-shits with paper noses OriginalGeek Mar 2013 #82

So you're arguing that it *is* possible for people to be "asking for it." Orrex Mar 2013 #86

He grabbed her ass OriginalGeek Mar 2013 #87

So if she'd grabbed his ass and he'd broken her nose, that would be ok? Orrex Mar 2013 #91

I have little doubt that you have convinced yourself that to be the case. LanternWaste Mar 2013 #116

If you have something to say, then say it. Orrex Mar 2013 #119

Yes, exactly Politicalboi Mar 2013 #172

Thank you. Orrex Mar 2013 #173

If she grabbed his ass he would have a valid reason to react by slapping her. Gormy Cuss Mar 2013 #192

and i definately agree with you, this is a 2 way street BUT why and lets not pretend that the threat seabeyond Mar 2013 #194

Not threat so much as reality. Gormy Cuss Mar 2013 #195

Good response Orrex Mar 2013 #197

Thank you, Gormy Cuss. sibelian Mar 2013 #206

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #106

That's some ugly, scurrilous shit you're slinging. I alerted on it. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #118

Jury results: Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #140

That's easy. "Asking for it" is grabbing someone's butt. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #132

But would a man be justified in slapping a woman who grabbed his ass? Orrex Mar 2013 #136

Someone grabs your butt, man or woman, a slap is justified, yes. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #138

Thanks Orrex Mar 2013 #144

If every woman who was on the receiving end of SEXUAL ASSAULT gave her attacker a broken nose kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #105

Yes and I bet he stopped grabbing her butt at that point. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #112

winner. knee him. same result. no evidence. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #128

Yep. That would do it! I doubt he'd present the huevos in court. nt Ilsa Mar 2013 #203

She smacked him and his nose just got in the way..... yellowcanine Mar 2013 #114

The last time some man grabbed me on the street Warpy Mar 2013 #202

Tough shit for the asshole groper tabasco Mar 2013 #208

There's a natural instinctive reaction to stuff like this sometimes gollygee Mar 2013 #3

So if a drunk woman grabs a guy's ass in a bar RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #4

If I grabbed a woman's ass in a bar I'd expect to be punched. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #6

People should just keep their hands to themselves. nt RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #8

Yeah, and not grab people's asses gollygee Mar 2013 #11

Instinctively? I've had my unwantedly grabbed before in a bar by a drunken asshole cali Mar 2013 #35

Mine was to turn around and deck the guy. Fawke Em Mar 2013 #39

Different people respond to things differently gollygee Mar 2013 #51

I can't remember how many times I'd have a tray of drinks in one hand and a pitcher polly7 Mar 2013 #53

Sorry, I just don't think hitting people is a good solution cali Mar 2013 #57

It sounds like she was surprised by it and just reacted. polly7 Mar 2013 #65

It may not be a good solution, KitSileya Mar 2013 #72

No one is required to be Amish. Hitting in self defense is perfectly kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #108

Same here unapatriciated Mar 2013 #215

I don't instinctively hit people. HappyMe Mar 2013 #47

So if a man "reacts instinctively" and punches a woman in the face, that's ok? Orrex Mar 2013 #61

If people can't control themselves to keep themselves from grabbing someone's ass gollygee Mar 2013 #63

Well, if that was his instinctive reaction, you already excused it. Orrex Mar 2013 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Mar 2013 #73

Why are you bending over backwards to defend SEXUAL ASSAULT???? kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #109

I'm doing exactly the opposite. Orrex Mar 2013 #117

I've yet to meet a guy who had a problem with a woman grabbing his ass in a bar. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #12

Oh here we go... RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #15

Have YOU ever heard a guy complain about that? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #19

Yeah me RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #21

Seriously dude? trumad Mar 2013 #23

Yeah what is the problem? RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #24

I think that most people who believe it is normal, right and fair LanternWaste Mar 2013 #156

Does this happen to you often? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #26

Here it comes RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #27

DU didn't go there. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #30

You're right RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #31

I was hoping you'd edit out "fag". UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #40

DU 101 In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #49

You're right--he must be asking for it. Orrex Mar 2013 #41

If he didn't want that sort of attention theKed Mar 2013 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author sibelian Mar 2013 #137

You bet your ass I complain about it riqster Mar 2013 #33

I agree! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #50

I had a woman grope my crotch in a bar one night. I didn't exactly complain brewens Mar 2013 #37

Yes, my husband. He filed a sexual harassment suit on a female co-worker madmom Mar 2013 #59

Sounds like she has serious problems. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #62

I'm very unhappy about any woman grabbing any part of me. sibelian Mar 2013 #131

I haven't seen that happen in a long time. HappyMe Mar 2013 #20

I haven't been in a singles bar in a long time. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #28

I never grabbed a strange guy's ass in a bar. HappyMe Mar 2013 #32

I was joking of course. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #34

My name is Demwing. Now we've met. demwing Mar 2013 #36

I guess I didn't hang out in those kind of bars very often. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #38

This message was self-deleted by its author demwing Mar 2013 #44

It still is not legal treestar Mar 2013 #56

Fine. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #58

not offensively treestar Mar 2013 #104

Right here Recursion Mar 2013 #99

Because all men want it? Because they are asking for it? riqster Mar 2013 #111

Enough. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #120

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #142

I already agreed that no one should touch anyone. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #143

But you left your sexist post up riqster Mar 2013 #146

Sexist, horrible. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #154

So the woman in the case should have been happy her butt was patted? riqster Mar 2013 #158

This is the most perfect example of wilful misunderstanding I have ever seen. sibelian Mar 2013 #204

You clearly need to start hanging out with a different class of guys then. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #147

Not gonna happen. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #157

Well you clearly don't respect them so it is not surprising if they don't respect you. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #162

Who don't I respect? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #165

The men you work with in construction. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #169

ah, but there is a vested interest in maintaining the macho, whistle/grab womans ass stereotype seabeyond Mar 2013 #174

Yeah I wondered about that and resented it a bit because I used to work in construction. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #177

See, this is why I (and others) have no respect for HOF. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #196

a guess, yes. i see no other reason for your statement about construction workers. ranting/raving? seabeyond Mar 2013 #198

Well that word salad made sense... Not. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #200

OK, now this thread is major league silly. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #186

Yeah that's an argument. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #190

So you seek disagreement? sibelian Mar 2013 #205

Don't be obtuse: "Argument" = "Debating Point" yellowcanine Mar 2013 #214

I beg to differ Rajesh Mar 2013 #181

As a man, I would be offended if a woman grabbed my ass in a bar LittleBlue Mar 2013 #188

How else would I have known I have no respect for my coworkers? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #189

I think you need some reeducation LittleBlue Mar 2013 #191

No. The laws apply to both sexes equally. treestar Mar 2013 #55

"People should just keep their hands to themselves..." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #68

yes, it is ok. magical thyme Mar 2013 #70

Because we all know... NCTraveler Mar 2013 #71

No, not bullshit RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #152

Agreed. Women should keep their hands to themselves, too. nt Ilsa Mar 2013 #83

Agreed. The debate above is irrelevant. LittleBlue Mar 2013 #97

Slapping someone is one thing. HappyMe Mar 2013 #5

If folks could keep their hands to themselves... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #7

That's pretty much it. HappyMe Mar 2013 #13

I bet he'll think twice before he grabs a woman's ass again. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #9

She was fined because there was evidence of her conduct. MADem Mar 2013 #216

How does a slap break someone's nose? justiceischeap Mar 2013 #10

Police found no evidence of butt-grabbing britaphilter Mar 2013 #14

What evidence would there be? gollygee Mar 2013 #17

Yeah, who needs evidence? ronnie624 Mar 2013 #66

He isn't being charged with anything gollygee Mar 2013 #69

There's no evidence for any aspect of this 'story'. ronnie624 Mar 2013 #75

You are obviously wrong, there is evidence The Straight Story Mar 2013 #184

The available evidence consists of one person's word against another's slackmaster Mar 2013 #110

The court agreed that she was subject to "serious provocation," i.e., butt-grabbing. Vattel Mar 2013 #18

Maybe women should dust their butts with invisible glow powder. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #179

If she punched him in the nose with a closed fist, Vattel Mar 2013 #16

I'm just saying... demwing Mar 2013 #46

lol, good point, although maybe he has a really flimsy nose Vattel Mar 2013 #88

Too bad she did not have a gun, she could have shot him and gone to jail CBGLuthier Mar 2013 #22

Stand your Ground baby... trumad Mar 2013 #25

This cries out for a kickstarter (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #29

That's what's known as getting a beat down for being a jerk. Dash87 Mar 2013 #42

bollocks that she got fined. Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #43

Perhaps he will think before touching a woman's ass again! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #48

Reiterating what pipi_k Mar 2013 #52

If it was retaliatory, it's not justified treestar Mar 2013 #54

That term, "instinctively", seems to be interesting in this case The Straight Story Mar 2013 #67

You bring up some interesting points. HappyMe Mar 2013 #78

There is a famous YouTube clip Orrex Mar 2013 #84

Wonder what folks think about fighting in Hockey The Straight Story Mar 2013 #93

There are two things that I don't understand in all of this: Orrex Mar 2013 #211

No, I do not cheer her on treestar Mar 2013 #101

Breaking his nose was a bit of overreaction in my book. Lil Missy Mar 2013 #60

According to the OP she only slapped him. Once. Which is understandable, considering. nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #193

Ah, a Viking descendant. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #79

Nope, it was Lisbeth Salander. Brigid Mar 2013 #103

If only he was a 17 year old kid with skittles who didn't grab her MillennialDem Mar 2013 #90

Only in Florida*, not in Sweden csziggy Mar 2013 #123

That's kind of a crap thing to do to her LittleBlue Mar 2013 #95

I'll let the Swedes sort it out Floyd_Gondolli Mar 2013 #102

Self defense. She should appeal if she can. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #121

Kidney punch in the lunch line One_Life_To_Give Mar 2013 #133

this happened in Sweden right ? olddots Mar 2013 #134

they should have charged him too. pansypoo53219 Mar 2013 #160

The article says they lacked evidence so they dropped the investigation. JVS Mar 2013 #170

When I was in college, I went to a frat party at the University of Vermont. smirkymonkey Mar 2013 #213