General Discussion

Hekate

(100,133 posts)

184. It's the daughter's statement that gave me pause, not the father's

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:47 PM

Mar 2013

Louis Santiago is lashing out -- inappropriately, but in a way understandably. Grief and shock sometimes make you say regrettable things. A cousin of mine said that when grief sets the table, anger sits there too.

So, to the daughter. She seems calm and rational enough. She is at a distance and not directly involved. She has a history, which she has "forgiven" her mother for.

It's the daughter's "spidey senses" that are tingling. That's what makes me go hmmm.

Cleaning up the baby's room quickly is not a crime -- it's what was done when my granddaughter died of SIDS. Asking about financial relief (the insurance) is also not a crime; as pointed out in a subthread here, many poorer folks need that money to pay for the funeral.

But the daughter's words are something else.

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OK. About the Georgia murder of the toddler. [View all] cali Mar 2013 OP

To me it's that she was shot in the leg while the baby was killed. vi5 Mar 2013 #1

Same thing happened in Johannesburg, S.A. mainer Mar 2013 #42

I thought she said she had been shot already, at an earlier date librechik Mar 2013 #83

First, the suspects "fled on foot". Then they were "in a car". mainer Mar 2013 #121

If the alleged shooters were white, no one on DU would raise questions. nt Generation_Why Mar 2013 #2

perhaps. but there has been a history and a long one at that cali Mar 2013 #3

Thank you Cali JustAnotherGen Mar 2013 #56

You are most welcome. cali Mar 2013 #58

NAH! A child getting shot in their stroller would never get a reaction, no matter who involved. devilgrrl Mar 2013 #122

You should honestly ask yourself if you are prejudiced. It appears to me that you are. nt patrice Mar 2013 #150

She didn't take her child's ashes? lynne Mar 2013 #4

Her 18-year-old was stabbed after HE tried to stab someone mainer Mar 2013 #11

"How soon do you think life insurance policy will send me a check?" Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #5

Funeral expenses Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #8

OK.... I admit, that had not occurred to me. (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #9

If she had to go through timdog44 Mar 2013 #190

Thank you. onyourleft Mar 2013 #13

For poor people, it's almost the first thing they do Yo_Mama Mar 2013 #15

poor people usually don't have insurance on their children. HiPointDem Jul 2013 #296

There is no need to wait any length of time at all. A funeral home can/will assist in filling out bike man Mar 2013 #16

Yep Benton D Struckcheon Mar 2013 #105

A funeral home or equvalent might or might not help csziggy Mar 2013 #146

Notice in the post you responded to ". . .A funeral home can/will. . .", but it may well be bike man Mar 2013 #209

Somehow I don't see most funeral home operators as generous types csziggy Mar 2013 #219

YMMV. My experiences show that to be true. nt bike man Mar 2013 #222

My in laws filed Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #287

This message was self-deleted by its author timdog44 Mar 2013 #19

It is if you are poor. nt msanthrope Mar 2013 #221

I'm with you on this malaise Mar 2013 #6

I'm sure you already know what I think. randome Mar 2013 #7

Maybe I'll burn in hell for this, but I still have my suspicions regarding bullwinkle428 Mar 2013 #10

No way of knowing Crepuscular Mar 2013 #12

The Susan Smith saga looms over this one, as does the case in Boston LeftinOH Mar 2013 #14

Might be enough for an investigation treestar Mar 2013 #17

On that note Separation Mar 2013 #63

This is a ghoulish, depraved post. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #18

Oh, hogwash ..... oldhippie Mar 2013 #20

depraved? ghoulish? Could you possibly be more of a hysteric? Uh, no. You could not. cali Mar 2013 #21

The use of the boy's fathers quote is ghoulish. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #22

No it is not ..... oldhippie Mar 2013 #24

The OP suggested that the mom killed the son. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #27

No, it doesn't. I state quite clearly that I could be wrong cali Mar 2013 #28

The daughter who was in a different state when this happened? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #32

so what if the daughter was in another state? cali Mar 2013 #33

I imagine through the same psychic powers YOU use to KNOW she is GUILTY. CBGLuthier Mar 2013 #35

Can you read? Do go read what I said at the top of the OP cali Mar 2013 #37

It appears you did not read the OP ..... oldhippie Mar 2013 #47

daughter's state of mind geek tragedy Mar 2013 #44

really? and you know that the daughter is LYING, how exactly? cali Mar 2013 #46

Facts: The mother was tested for gunpowder geek tragedy Mar 2013 #49

I never suspected the mother of firing the gun cali Mar 2013 #50

The police never said she was one. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #52

guess what? not being named by the police as a suspect is far different cali Mar 2013 #57

There are exactly zero pieces of evidence pointing geek tragedy Mar 2013 #61

Wow. So now the likes of YOU have all the evidence that the police have? Yikes. cali Mar 2013 #64

Can you name one piece of evidence pointing to geek tragedy Mar 2013 #78

Have I claimed there is evidence? Why no. cali Mar 2013 #90

So, why multiple posts stating that you suspect the mother's involvement? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #92

My suspicion is based on history, behavior, comments from various parties. cali Mar 2013 #106

History and behavior? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #109

History as in Susan Smith and Charles Stuart. cali Mar 2013 #115

So, every claim by a white woman that geek tragedy Mar 2013 #120

gad. do stop flailing desperately. It's sad. cali Mar 2013 #125

You've claimed that you never accused her of shooting the baby. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #131

I've never accused her of shooting the baby. cali Mar 2013 #133

Her hiring the kids would not be a Susan Smith scenario. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #137

OK, it would be a Charles Stuart scenario. cali Mar 2013 #191

Children's life insurance geek tragedy Mar 2013 #194

More cali Mar 2013 #199

asdf geek tragedy Mar 2013 #202

It's the most plausible. It certainly is NOT the only plausible scenario, genius. cali Mar 2013 #205

There is a difference between implausible and impossible. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #208

So a girl is removed from her mother's custody when she's 8 and it's her fault for EOTE Mar 2013 #77

And all of that has diddly fuck to do with the claim that geek tragedy Mar 2013 #79

YOU are the one who is bringing up all the bullshit and strawmen. EOTE Mar 2013 #84

You seem awfully emotionally invested in the need geek tragedy Mar 2013 #86

You seem awfully emotionally invested in clearing the mother. EOTE Mar 2013 #91

Okay, those suggesting that the mother is guilty geek tragedy Mar 2013 #95

The OP did a damn good job of showing why the mom should be looked at very closely. EOTE Mar 2013 #100

The OP posted nothing that implicates the mother. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #103

So you admit to making shit up to bolster your argument? EOTE Mar 2013 #107

Choke on it. You called me a liar for saying the truth. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #265

Choke on it? Pathetic. EOTE Mar 2013 #288

No one is claiming that. What I and others are saying is that cali Mar 2013 #85

It's a possibility that Charlie Sheen arranged it to. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #88

oh for fuck's sake. are you trying to demonstrate that you have no cali Mar 2013 #93

Remind us again why there's reason to suspect geek tragedy Mar 2013 #98

Where did the police clear the mother? EOTE Mar 2013 #96

The police tested her for gunpowder residue. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #101

Ahhhh, so you are utterly full of bullshit. EOTE Mar 2013 #104

Until you can provide any evidence that she had contact geek tragedy Mar 2013 #108

YOU are the one making the bullshit statements. EOTE Mar 2013 #110

You need to calm down. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #111

Ahhh, so adults make false claims which are easily identified? EOTE Mar 2013 #113

So now you're claiming knowledge of what kind of role models geek tragedy Mar 2013 #116

Just making an educated guess. EOTE Mar 2013 #118

They've been cleared of suspicion in shooting geek tragedy Mar 2013 #126

Another lie. EOTE Mar 2013 #132

Yes, yes, everyone who pokes holes in your hysteria geek tragedy Mar 2013 #136

No, you're a liar because you repeatedly tell lies. EOTE Mar 2013 #138

Are you seriously contending that it's a lie geek tragedy Mar 2013 #141

Yes, that's one of the many lies you've been peddling. EOTE Mar 2013 #144

I'm sorry that you can't handle logical inferences geek tragedy Mar 2013 #155

There is NO inference here, it's an important, legal distinction. EOTE Mar 2013 #161

Sherry West was herself shot twice. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #164

Another lie? Do you get tired of them? EOTE Mar 2013 #166

Is it possible for a person to shoot themself geek tragedy Mar 2013 #168

Yes, it's very possible. EOTE Mar 2013 #170

How easy is it to shoot yourself twice geek tragedy Mar 2013 #173

Please admit to your numerous lies. Maybe then we'll get somewhere. EOTE Mar 2013 #175

Heh, you just shriek insults when unable geek tragedy Mar 2013 #180

You expect me to continue to show how incredibly ignorant you are of facts... EOTE Mar 2013 #182

The police cleared her. That is a fact. Your incessant geek tragedy Mar 2013 #252

put up or....stop posting made up shit. cali Mar 2013 #140

She's been cleared as the person who pulled the trigger. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #143

You're more than welcome to back up that claim. But as lies are all you have, you won't. EOTE Mar 2013 #151

lol. so you can't post the link to the non-existent police statement clearing her cali Mar 2013 #152

She's been cleared as being the triggerperson, and geek tragedy Mar 2013 #156

But of course you know I never suggested she was the trigger person and YOU fucking well cali Mar 2013 #162

The daughter has no factual information geek tragedy Mar 2013 #165

After reading this whole thread, I must say ...... oldhippie Mar 2013 #163

Hey, cut the poster some slack. If he wasn't allowed to lie, he wouldn't be able to participate at EOTE Mar 2013 #167

ain't that the truth. cali Mar 2013 #193

No, Team VictimBlamer are the ones looking like idiots geek tragedy Mar 2013 #228

Both parents were tested and their home searched maddezmom Mar 2013 #112

If we imagine she was the triggerperson, there geek tragedy Mar 2013 #158

Is it possible she hired them? Yes. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #142

"is the neighborhood dangerous? If so, why was she there?" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #145

I don't think the people marions ghost Mar 2013 #153

If I read the original story correctly, IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #178

Most muggings and robberies are random. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #181

Hmm. Perhaps I watch too much Law & Order. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #196

I have no idea how I would act if someone threatened me with a gun. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #197

Agreed about the evil. I am convinced (as a mother) IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #207

Not sure what she could have done to protect the baby geek tragedy Mar 2013 #210

You flip the stroller around behind you. IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #214

So this is really about her not doing what we geek tragedy Mar 2013 #269

+++! Awesome post. So very! constructive and useful. Thanks for helping others. patrice Mar 2013 #183

Hi Ida Kelvin Mace Mar 2013 #188

Okay, you just lost this whole thing right here. Not all probabilities are equally probable & I'm patrice Mar 2013 #171

What's the current theory on the mother geek tragedy Mar 2013 #174

IF she solicited them to do it, it was probably expected that they'd get away & she would not ID patrice Mar 2013 #186

Seems vanishingly unlikely. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #189

"Walking a baby" in the dark? Way less likely. & I bet poor people DO rob one another, but that patrice Mar 2013 #216

She was walking back from the post office. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #217

Oh, he lost 'it' a long time ago. EOTE Mar 2013 #179

It's the daughter's statement that gave me pause, not the father's Hekate Mar 2013 #184

But, let's look at what the daugher identified as suspicious. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #187

"I've forgiven her" -- for what? IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #213

I think Geek Tragedy makes a good point. ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #232

ghouls of DU Trajan Mar 2013 #29

+1,000,000 devilgrrl Mar 2013 #114

Burn! EOTE Mar 2013 #148

Well, yeah, I save my scorn for murderers like Dorner geek tragedy Mar 2013 #176

Yes there are ghouls, but to some people it's like a mystery and others are interested in how patrice Mar 2013 #159

This crime is extremely "high risk" LeftInTX Mar 2013 #23

Thanks for reminding me what is pissing me off about some folk's reactions CBGLuthier Mar 2013 #36

Nobody on DU has the right to claim they know what happened. Quantess Mar 2013 #25

There are a lot of suspicions here. timdog44 Mar 2013 #26

should not be about the mother? Why? cali Mar 2013 #30

Anymore than we know why the mother said what she said. timdog44 Mar 2013 #38

Phrasing: "who had to give her up" - uh, no. She was TAKEN AWAY IdaBriggs Mar 2013 #147

There is a legal presumption of innocence, but, to be fair, I think cali is proposing something that patrice Mar 2013 #192

In my gut timdog44 Mar 2013 #195

yep. I just think the mother should be thoroughly investigated cali Mar 2013 #203

The police cleared the mother. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #253

why do you keep repeating that falsehood? cali Mar 2013 #256

Because I'm better informed than you geek tragedy Mar 2013 #259

"at this time she is not a suspect" cali Mar 2013 #263

as predicted, you're now torturing "not a suspect" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #264

Pony up the link that explicitly states that, please. Otherwise, it is INDETERMINATE which is a patrice Mar 2013 #258

Here's your pony. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #260

There's something wrong with you. Asking questions is not hate. Saying she is not a suspect is not patrice Mar 2013 #267

We don't have court hearings to prove that people geek tragedy Mar 2013 #268

I'll be suspicious if I want to. Are_grits_groceries Mar 2013 #31

I am rooting for the truth too. timdog44 Mar 2013 #51

That's how I see it as well. nt Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #272

Skepticism when the facts are still coming out is fair. But this taps into something a lot deeper RZM Mar 2013 #34

I believe the evidence clearly shows that Amanda Knox is totally innocent (eom) StevieM Mar 2013 #247

The funds from a baby insurance policy aren't enough to pay for a hit. dkf Mar 2013 #39

that's not what quite a few experts say cali Mar 2013 #201

I probably shouldn't chime in, but I will. Whisp Mar 2013 #40

I think that it was stated timdog44 Mar 2013 #54

I didn't know that. Whisp Mar 2013 #67

I don't think that makes your post timdog44 Mar 2013 #76

I didn't take your post negatively toward my post. Whisp Mar 2013 #87

I have to say sometimes timdog44 Mar 2013 #99

No it doesn't. With so little real information, everything in this thread is about probabilities. patrice Mar 2013 #204

For me, the issue is about drawing any sort of conclusion MineralMan Mar 2013 #41

Thank You. marions ghost Mar 2013 #70

Yes. I'm waiting to see what the investigation shows. MineralMan Mar 2013 #72

My thought on that is marions ghost Mar 2013 #89

Exactly. If whoever shot that child had no gun, MineralMan Mar 2013 #139

And these poor neighborhoods are full of guns. marions ghost Mar 2013 #160

Thank you for this wisdom! csziggy Mar 2013 #157

Wait a minute - if it wasn't for speculation, no one would even know bullwinkle428 Mar 2013 #218

We should never believe any victim, ever Union Scribe Mar 2013 #43

That's what any homicide cop would do mainer Mar 2013 #94

But nobody in this thread is a homicide cop. MineralMan Mar 2013 #149

How do you know?!!! mainer Mar 2013 #281

Not for shits and giggles it isn't. Union Scribe Mar 2013 #225

And interesting that the first thing they did was check Mom for GSR mainer Mar 2013 #280

I never said they didn't check her out. Union Scribe Mar 2013 #291

For some of us, it's not merely entertainment. mainer Mar 2013 #293

You are not alone. MattBaggins Mar 2013 #45

Any time a kid with life insurance is murdered... mainer Mar 2013 #48

good post. n/t Whisp Mar 2013 #53

My parents had insurance policies on all of thier kids. GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #200

Life insurance is cheaper than a funeral?!!! mainer Mar 2013 #283

Burials and cremations are expensive. A cheap insurance policy is not. GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #284

One quote i found for life insurance for a kid was $18 a month mainer Mar 2013 #289

Wow! You looked at one whole quote! GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #290

"Life insurance policies you should never buy" mainer Mar 2013 #292

I am not throwing my money away. GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #294

Sherry West is bipolar and schizophrenic HipChick Mar 2013 #55

Her daughter was taken from her for neglect. And she raised a sociopath. mainer Mar 2013 #59

You are not alone in that assessment, many here seem to believe Rex Mar 2013 #60

I think she may be involved. There is a crucial difference between cali Mar 2013 #62

True and from all the recent information that has come to light Rex Mar 2013 #65

She was not working, and was on disability, why would she make having insurance on her kid HipChick Mar 2013 #68

Infant life insurance adds up to about $18 a month mainer Mar 2013 #74

Do we actually know she had insurance on her child? cali Mar 2013 #81

We only know she asked her daughter when the insurance would pay out. mainer Mar 2013 #82

if she was not working on disability - then she'd be getting checks for the kid too. bettyellen Mar 2013 #124

Any investigator would hear alarm bells going off DevonRex Mar 2013 #128

Ya that disturbed me too. Rex Mar 2013 #134

well said. cali Mar 2013 #154

If she was smart and calculating marions ghost Mar 2013 #169

What bothers me equally is the 14-y-o suspect* someone saw leaving in a car DevonRex Mar 2013 #185

High visibility case marions ghost Mar 2013 #206

Fried chicken? DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #66

That was also strange.. HipChick Mar 2013 #69

There are a lot of armchair detectives online. liberalmuse Mar 2013 #71

easy peasy. ignore those threads if you find them "tiresome" cali Mar 2013 #73

Sounds like a solution. n/t AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #117

I think it is good for people to think. That's part of what makes it possible to learn how to care. patrice Mar 2013 #215

I see nothing in either piece to indicate signs the mother is lying BainsBane Mar 2013 #75

Did they find the gun? I have not really followed this . likesmountains 52 Mar 2013 #80

SMH Mr Dixon Mar 2013 #97

And leaves the witness alive. mainer Mar 2013 #102

Someone who would murder a baby in a robbery attempt might not be the sharpest tool in the shed slackmaster Mar 2013 #119

Her talking is going to get her in trouble. Are_grits_groceries Mar 2013 #129

a serious question directed to those who think the mother's story doesn't add up onenote Mar 2013 #123

No, there's no evidence, but it's odd that her daughter is uncomfortable with the story. cali Mar 2013 #130

IMO Mr Dixon Mar 2013 #135

Did suspects run or did they drive? Contradictions! mainer Mar 2013 #127

Regarding the anonymous tipster.... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #172

The only thing that bothers me Sissyk Mar 2013 #250

Doesn't to me. But then, I'm autistic. Many people would look at how I react in grief... Moonwalk Mar 2013 #273

Excellent post, Moonwalk! Sissyk Mar 2013 #276

Amazingly, they found the gun! geek tragedy Mar 2013 #227

There's just not a whole lot of evidence from what I can tell Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #177

When decided by a mob, cases get settled very quickly. Kurovski Mar 2013 #198

"the possible fact that the mother was responsible" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #223

If you want to talk to me, then address me directly. Kurovski Mar 2013 #229

You bashed the 'mob' coming to the geek tragedy Mar 2013 #230

An asshole sounds like this: Kurovski Mar 2013 #233

Let's see if you answer this simple question: geek tragedy Mar 2013 #234

Because I'm not as entirely certain as you that she was "forced" to do anything. Kurovski Mar 2013 #239

Eh, you bought into the blame the victim nonsense geek tragedy Mar 2013 #242

And there's your happy ending. Kurovski Mar 2013 #244

If it makes people less likely to blame the victims geek tragedy Mar 2013 #245

Fapulous! Kurovski Mar 2013 #254

Pssst. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #255

The story is still not over. Kurovski Mar 2013 #266

"the story is still not over" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #271

Well stated ...... oldhippie Mar 2013 #236

I am enjoying your logic Soundman Mar 2013 #237

really? I'm a troll> That's absurd. And no, I don't post flame bait. care to point out cali Mar 2013 #238

Mom and aunt of suspect have informed the police where the gun is cabot Mar 2013 #211

exactly. The people blaming the mother for this have been beyond vile. nt alphafemale Mar 2013 #224

please point out what is vile about this: cali Mar 2013 #240

The fact that you've been peddling innuendo about the geek tragedy Mar 2013 #243

Aside from the fact that I'm not particularly interested in your response cali Mar 2013 #248

Police: Sherry West is not a suspect. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #249

They have the perps they have the gun matched to the casings. alphafemale Mar 2013 #251

No, it's not cut and dried at this time. It may become cut and dried cali Mar 2013 #257

No. You have just implied that an impoverished woman arranged to have her baby shot in the face. alphafemale Mar 2013 #262

To be fair, you don't need to admit being wrong about anything no matter how this turns out. randome Mar 2013 #212

Good point. Rex Mar 2013 #226

The problem is poverty, kids who go bad, drugs and marions ghost Mar 2013 #220

I'm with you. The story doesn't sit well with me Catherina Mar 2013 #231

I guess we should trust your word salad over geek tragedy Mar 2013 #241

All hail Mr Tragedy who just throws unfounded crap out hoping something will stick Catherina Mar 2013 #270

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #274

Good God. Do you ever stop lying? Catherina Mar 2013 #277

'Embroidery' is a good word. randome Mar 2013 #246

As it should. Catherina Mar 2013 #275

Well, by all means, if his defense lawyer claims him to be innocent, he must be! LisaL Mar 2013 #278

I know you, Cali, and Greek Tragedy have some strong disagreements, ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #235

I've seen some really repugnant posts that blame the victim over the years here, MadHound Mar 2013 #261

I am very suspicious. bravenak Mar 2013 #279

It may depend on the state or locality, too, but your information is welcome. randome Mar 2013 #282

The aunt of the suspect turned the kid in... dkf Mar 2013 #285

I know little about this story Dorian Gray Mar 2013 #286

Here's why some DUers were logically eyeing the mother mainer Mar 2013 #295