General Discussion

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)

190. Except they very clearly and demonstrably are NOT the same.

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:27 PM

Mar 2013

As I previously pointed out, polling indicates very clearly that a majority of gun owners support expanded background checks and cracking down on traffickers and straw purchasers, two name but two proposals getting a lot of attention recently. Not just liberal gun owners like me...a majority of all gun owners. The hardcore NRA fringe are outliers, and that renders your claim of broad equivalency null, You're simply wrong about that.

As far as gang-related urban gun violence goes, it is a statistically-verifiable fact that a very high percentage of gun-related violence is indeed gang-related. Pointing that out isn't racist (unless accompanied by some sort of claim that it indicates racial inferiority or a propensity towards criminal behavior or some such horseshit). Sticking our collective head in the sand in response to that fact is not just counterproductive, I'd assert that it is itself a somewhat racist response. Is access to firearms a component of this horrifying level of "urban" violence. Undoubtedly so. Is it the sole reason (or even a primary factor)? Pretty damned unlikely, IMO.

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"90% of the guns in America are owned by White people in the suburbs." [View all] baldguy Mar 2013 OP

Moore pulled that number out of his ass hack89 Mar 2013 #1

I agree that he most likely did pull that number out of his ass el_bryanto Mar 2013 #3

He needs to back up his claim. hack89 Mar 2013 #6

No it's not - he should back it up - it's possible he did get that nubmer somewhere el_bryanto Mar 2013 #8

I agree with you 90% seems like the wrong percentage. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #137

back up your's olddots Mar 2013 #50

My claim that Moore did not present any evidence to back up his claim? hack89 Mar 2013 #51

self reports by gun owners Brainstormy Mar 2013 #183

46% of black respondents say they own a handgun hack89 Mar 2013 #184

We could answer this easily with a national registry. morningfog Mar 2013 #118

Good to see you still have your dreams. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #130

One day! I think MM is probably right, morningfog Mar 2013 #131

Prove it. baldguy Mar 2013 #4

He made the claim. He needs to prove it. hack89 Mar 2013 #5

No only that, but even *reasearch* is banned. baldguy Mar 2013 #16

So you agree that Moore cannot substantiate his claim? hack89 Mar 2013 #17

Show me a firearm ad with a Black person in it. baldguy Mar 2013 #47

What does that have to do with his claim? nt hack89 Mar 2013 #48

You haven't been paying attention, have you? Try actually READING a bit ..... baldguy Mar 2013 #53

Why don't you simply show me that he is right? hack89 Mar 2013 #54

You have no proof one way or the other that he is or he isn't. baldguy Mar 2013 #55

That is pretty stupid logic hack89 Mar 2013 #56

Well, the entire capitalist system for the entire world runs on stupid logic. baldguy Mar 2013 #59

what exactly GreenRanger Mar 2013 #186

Go read up on the science of marketing laundry_queen Mar 2013 #197

honestly GreenRanger Mar 2013 #199

So? laundry_queen Mar 2013 #202

I wasn't trying to obfuscate GreenRanger Mar 2013 #207

Youtube is full of them davepc Mar 2013 #93

Do you have any clue what an advertisement is? At all? baldguy Mar 2013 #97

And do you have any idea about how modern advertising works? davepc Mar 2013 #99

By his logic bigotry can't spread because no corporate advertising firms Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #102

Product placement in various media works for cars, soft drinks & other consumer products. baldguy Mar 2013 #104

I think you are WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #191

You're displaying your ignorance of WHY advertising works. baldguy Mar 2013 #192

I understand why it works. WinniSkipper Mar 2013 #196

substantiate your claim about his claim olddots Mar 2013 #52

So the weapons companies aren't trying to direct their advertising... Bay Boy Mar 2013 #108

I've asked several people several times with no result so far. baldguy Mar 2013 #112

The booze companies Bay Boy Mar 2013 #119

Because there's no national registry. premium Mar 2013 #7

Did everyone who has a/some gun/guns get them legally, with all paperwork completed bike man Mar 2013 #9

Or bicycles jberryhill Mar 2013 #15

78.4% of gun violence is performed by gangs with stolen weapons snooper2 Mar 2013 #21

Got a link? nt cbrer Mar 2013 #91

89.1% of people don't need a link n/t Bay Boy Mar 2013 #110

Michael Moore...making stuff up about guns? Peter cotton Mar 2013 #34

A horrifying visual...but very probably true. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #35

If we take Mr. Moore at his word are we to assume he employs racist bodyguards? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #61

You mean like this? cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #82

I've reported that slanderous, trolling nonsense multiple times. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #87

Wow.. seems like pedophilia and bestiality are missing as well... Melon_Lord Mar 2013 #132

That sig is slightly different everytime I see it RZM Mar 2013 #144

you pulled a number about a number Michael Moore quoted out your ass olddots Mar 2013 #49

Why has no one else picked up on this? PotatoChip Mar 2013 #71

I lived in the Tampa Bay Area of Florida for 37 years. ... spin Mar 2013 #84

Says the white guy guns in the suburbs. Lol. morningfog Mar 2013 #69

So you can substantiate his claim? hack89 Mar 2013 #70

LOL! morningfog Mar 2013 #114

"Facts are irrelevant as long as it is anti-gun" hack89 Mar 2013 #129

Nailed it. n/t AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #177

It is where he gets most of his numbers. yellowcanine Mar 2013 #213

It would matter if that 90% of guns was responsible for 90% of gun violence hack89 Mar 2013 #214

Numbers and percetages mean something pipoman Mar 2013 #2

Look at all the daily shootings from gangs socialindependocrat Mar 2013 #10

And just where do you think those "gangs" get their guns? baldguy Mar 2013 #24

most likely Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #26

How come the neighborhoods of the alleged suppliers isn't as violence-wracked as Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #60

Ask Tony Montana. baldguy Mar 2013 #62

I never saw Scarface so I had to google Tony Montana Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #68

Illegal gun owners get their guns from legal gun owners. Every time. baldguy Mar 2013 #72

So by that logic legal pharmaceutical drug users are negligient and wholly responsible Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #75

But pharmaceutical and alcohol dealers work as much as they can to ensure abuse is at a minimum baldguy Mar 2013 #77

You know that is absolutely false. Firearm manufacturers and dealers are federally licensed. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #101

Every. Time. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #105

Where do you think they come from then? baldguy Mar 2013 #106

So if a Punk gets a piece from another Punk, and that gun is TEN TIMES REMOVED from cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #121

It had to get into the illegal market somehow. baldguy Mar 2013 #122

Why don't you go back, and look at the subject line I replied to originally. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #124

You have given no evidence that any given illegal gun can't be traced back to a legal gun owner. baldguy Mar 2013 #125

It's like immigration. Very few "illegal immigrants" (I hate that phrase) actually crossed illegally Recursion Mar 2013 #142

A lot of people who own guns illegally got their guns Jenoch Mar 2013 #128

Every illegal gun can be traced back to a legal gun owner baldguy Mar 2013 #134

You are correct to a certain extent. Jenoch Mar 2013 #161

By the way, Jenoch Mar 2013 #163

You do know that a lot of illegal guns are brought into this country illegally right? n/t npk Mar 2013 #198

The 'bangers don't go to gun shows, the prices are way too high DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #78

Absolute made up tripe from Michael. Once again, I invite him to visit DETROIT, Romulox Mar 2013 #11

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! Zoeisright Mar 2013 #66

All gibberish and smilies. nt Romulox Mar 2013 #159

like everyone else who's posted in this thread, I'm calling bullshit cali Mar 2013 #12

I once respected MM, thought of him as some kind of hero for F9*11. Skip Intro Mar 2013 #13

Moore is right in the point that marions ghost Mar 2013 #14

Then perhaps we need to work on ending poverty The Straight Story Mar 2013 #18

They go together marions ghost Mar 2013 #19

Your allies in the NRA and the Tea Party are working against that happening. baldguy Mar 2013 #40

How cute The Straight Story Mar 2013 #43

Same way you think Michael Moore shouldn't be heard - because he's fat. baldguy Mar 2013 #46

+1 ellisonz Mar 2013 #181

--- marions ghost Mar 2013 #182

Wrong guardian Mar 2013 #20

Really. baldguy Mar 2013 #23

Who is more likely to hunt? joeglow3 Mar 2013 #33

All these White people aren't lining up to buy hunting rifles. baldguy Mar 2013 #36

So, you have no real proof joeglow3 Mar 2013 #42

So if they aren't usually a problem, what's your beef? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2013 #38

Because illegal gun owners get their guns from legal gun owners. baldguy Mar 2013 #39

If you are going to lecture on stats try knowing what you are talking about dsc Mar 2013 #45

This says 46% of whites are gun owners, not 46% of guns are owned by whites Recursion Mar 2013 #57

I guess you need an refresher on how to use a search engine. morningfog Mar 2013 #115

Does not surprise me a bit. Bigots arm up out of fear. NRA membership stats confirm. Hoyt Mar 2013 #22

Amen, Brother Hoyt! Who needs research when you've got unquestioning faith? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2013 #29

Look at all those not-White people lining up to git ther gunz! baldguy Mar 2013 #32

Like these "non-white" people? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2013 #37

I'd trust any of those old guys with guns, before the yahoos above from Michigan Militia/Bigots Hoyt Mar 2013 #41

Gun control? Nah, it dat white trash. That who it is. Eleanors38 Mar 2013 #80

I hope someday you won't think in terms of "enemy." Citizens are not the gun Hoyt Mar 2013 #88

It bugs you that there is no political test for gun ownership, doesn't it? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2013 #86

Nope. Rules should apply to almost every one. Hoyt Mar 2013 #92

People in the cities should have the same RKBA as people in the suburbs badtoworse Mar 2013 #25

75.6% of all statistics are made up... sarisataka Mar 2013 #27

Yes but that's true only 49.67% of the time Fla_Democrat Mar 2013 #30

Source: Gallup Inc, Gun Owners of America bighart Mar 2013 #28

. baldguy Mar 2013 #31

That has no stat on the numbers of guns owned. morningfog Mar 2013 #117

Spot-on. The "RKBA enthusiast" movement is largely a racist movement, with its roots in the apocalypsehow Mar 2013 #44

Horseshit guardian Mar 2013 #58

That's an extreme point of view you are holding. Quantess Mar 2013 #63

There you have it: He wants more culture war. Right here. nt Eleanors38 Mar 2013 #81

You're well on your way to being famously full of shit. Skip Intro Mar 2013 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #175

If we accept Moore's assertion that 90% of guns are in white suburbs, kudzu22 Mar 2013 #64

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #65

You win for the stupidest post of the century. Zoeisright Mar 2013 #67

I make up shit too. I invented helium! Throd Mar 2013 #73

Prove that he's wrong. baldguy Mar 2013 #74

For that percentage to pan out, all white suburbanites would have vast hoards of firearms. Throd Mar 2013 #76

The number of the "vast quantities" you're looking for is *4*. baldguy Mar 2013 #79

Non-whites only get one gun? Who knew? Throd Mar 2013 #89

"If Michael Moore's face were on a nickel, Sean Hannity's would be on the other side." NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #94

The actual percentages are listed in Reply # 20. baldguy Mar 2013 #95

Make some more. We're running low. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #113

Michael Moore is a self-promoting ass. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #83

He's fat too! You forgot to mention that! baldguy Mar 2013 #85

If he actually quoted a fact, he might have a point. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #90

You guys can't deny the hypothesis. If the percentage is 70%, MM has a point. Hoyt Mar 2013 #98

Who are "you guys"? NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #100

Go to gun show, ask all the white gun accumulators where they live. Hoyt Mar 2013 #103

First of all, I SERIOUSLY doubt that the number is even close to 70%. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #107

Unfortunately there are a lot of those gun cultists. Hoyt Mar 2013 #109

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem... NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #111

You're using the PeeWee Herman defense? baldguy Mar 2013 #123

The only thing I know about PeeWee Herman is the theater incident. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #126

The guns from Chicago and D.C. don't come from Chicago and D.C. baldguy Mar 2013 #133

According to Bloomberg that makes MM a drain on the system. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #165

If you have no clue about the issues you should refrain from commenting. baldguy Mar 2013 #170

What RW propaganda? You mentioned MM's weight. I noted Bloomberg says obesity drains the system. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #172

Moore was successful at stimulating this discussion cbrer Mar 2013 #96

It was successful at tickling the easy to tickle suburban white guys with guns. morningfog Mar 2013 #116

Shooting fish in a barrel yes... cbrer Mar 2013 #127

It is so weird. Puglover Mar 2013 #135

Gun owners love their guns more than they love their children. baldguy Mar 2013 #136

Congratulations: that's the most egregious example of false dichotomy I've encountered in years. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #171

Actually, given the posts I've seen by the gun nuts on DU, I'm spot on. baldguy Mar 2013 #179

You're moving the goalposts. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #180

They are the same. baldguy Mar 2013 #187

Except they very clearly and demonstrably are NOT the same. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #190

I won't hold my breath for these mythical "simple gun owners" to show their progressive creds by baldguy Mar 2013 #193

You needn't. It's already been done countless times. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #194

When? Where? baldguy Mar 2013 #195

Exactly, gun owners are all a bunch of fucking NRA extremists. hughee99 Mar 2013 #209

"the NRA, their murder-friendly pro-criminal RW" Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #212

Because they have people like you to support them. baldguy Mar 2013 #216

That doesn't even make sense. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #217

The extremist RW has a long history of giving terrorist groups political power baldguy Mar 2013 #218

Gee, a picture. Well, that pretty much makes it irrefutable. Here's a more recent one -- Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #219

Considering Ecuador's gun homicide rate is higher than America's hack89 Mar 2013 #139

LOL I live here Hack. Puglover Mar 2013 #166

Those "cute blue links" are called facts. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #167

Facts: perhaps you've heard of them. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #174

Same offer goes to you as to Puglover Mar 2013 #188

Ah, so four times the gun-related murder rate is unimportant to you. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #189

Do you reject the statistic stated in Lizzie's Post? Marengo Mar 2013 #200

Easier, apparently, to employ the "ostrich defense" and ignore anything inconvenient. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2013 #210

And you know what? laundry_queen Mar 2013 #201

Cracking down on the illegal gun trade should be a top priority hack89 Mar 2013 #205

The problem being laundry_queen Mar 2013 #208

The NRA is wrong hack89 Mar 2013 #211

Laws need to be changed. Think about a psychiatric evaluation before allowing a gun purchase. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #138

How would that work? hack89 Mar 2013 #140

The new gun owner will need to prove that he or she is sane. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #141

That would be extremely low bar hack89 Mar 2013 #143

Not necessarily. Some adult gun owners have lost_it due to stress in everyday life. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #145

Mental health professionals cannot tell the future hack89 Mar 2013 #146

No. Not at all. However: If someone has been institutionalized with suicidal mental issues ... In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #147

That is already illegal under federal law hack89 Mar 2013 #149

Until now ... there was no reason for me to read these things. Thank you! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #153

You're welcome. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #154

There aren't enough psychiatrists in America to give that many tests per year. GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #162

Oh crap! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #164

SMH Mr Dixon Mar 2013 #148

It really is obvious what is going on, to everyone but those steeped in guns. Hoyt Mar 2013 #152

0% of people who hate Michael Moore are progressives. Robb Mar 2013 #150

Nope RZM Mar 2013 #158

Heh. Well, there is a difference between disagreeing with his position on a matter Robb Mar 2013 #160

The 'quote' from Moore in the OP title is not complete and I think intentionally so. Unfair to the Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #151

Now show us the racial composition of the suburbs and rural areas hack89 Mar 2013 #155

How is that my job? I'm talking about what Moore actually said as opposed to what the OP typed. Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #156

I agree the OP was inaccurate. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #157

And that was my point along with the fact that the inaccuracy is intentional. Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #204

I agree with you. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #206

Moore pulled a Bachmann britaphilter Mar 2013 #168

36% of suburban homes have firearms. 26% of urban homes have firearms. 1 in 6 black homes have one. Xithras Mar 2013 #169

Actually, they have. baldguy Mar 2013 #173

Ultimately, the number of actual guns is a distraction from the real issue. Xithras Mar 2013 #176

The REAL issue is that there are too many god damned guns in circulation. baldguy Mar 2013 #178

You are correct when you write Jenoch Mar 2013 #185

If a nationwide confiscation would spark a violent resistance why promote a nationwide confiscation? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #215

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #203