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haele

(15,406 posts)
74. Deep breath - The benefit is in the taxes and spending that the $50K - $100K does.
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 10:32 PM
Mar 2013

Income at that level works in the community because it is spent. The person making that income is not "rich enough" to do much more than spend it. Honestly, what would you do if your income at $8.00 an hour was doubled? What would you do if it were tripled? Don't think of it as a one-time windfall, where you pay off all your bills and then it goes away, but what would you think you would do if you would be collecting that income for another year or two - perhaps up to ten years?

Do you honestly think that what you would do with a regular living wage income that allows you even small expenditures beyond paying the bills doesn't help your community?

My income does benefit my neighbors. Anyone who lives in a neighborhood where the local economy is depressed or is recovering can see that my ability and that of my neighbors to pay local taxes and fees - be they sales, property, registration, local income and bonds - affects the infrastructure of my community.
My income benefits my local businesses. My income especially benefits my local businesses if I'm able to buy a house, or a car. If I bought a house, my property taxes and bond fees helps pay for schools, garbage collection, infrastructure upgrades. My sales taxes goes into the general fund to help pay for city services. When my neighbors are able to pay their bills, taxes, and still have a little left over to spend, they not only also help with the taxes, their relative "comfort" - that feeling of economic safety - makes for (usually) less crime and more volunteerism in the neighborhood.
When I have more money to spend, I spend it. That money goes to businesses who, seeing more customers like me, find themselves needing to hire more people to handle the increase in customers.

True, as an individual, my $4 - 10K more a year in spending ability doesn't seem like much, but ten of me can be the difference between one person being hired at a small business or losing their job.

Similarly, if my income goes down, or I lose my job, I become a burden on my community. Not in unemployment, but in resources, because if I can't afford to survive on my income or savings, the community has to carry me.

Now - about the so-called whining about entry level jobs.

I'm old.

I remember the difference between teen-aged entry level jobs and entry level jobs for skilled trades - like an automotive worker, or a welder/pipefitter, or an electrician.
Good, union jobs - or even just a more professional retail job, a gas-station mechanic, or full-time janitorial job.
Jobs where it was assumed that if you were applying for these jobs, you weren't living with your parents, working for "pin money", or going to school at nights or hanging out trying to figure out what to do before you married someone with a job, but you were setting out on a career, hoping to take care of your future, and that you intended to work at that job for a length of time where it would behoove your employer to invest in you as a worker.

in 1978, my little brother was making $2.65 an hour as a part-time bagger at the age of 16- the lowest wage on the scale - at Albertsons; your typical minimum wage/training wage for an untrained entry level worker. That is the same as making $9.44 today.
The year before, while I was waiting to join the Navy, I applied for and worked for three months as a part-time (no benefits) file clerk - lowest position in the office and basically a "no training" student job - for $3.75 an hour for UW - which would be $14.37 an hour today.
In both these jobs, it was understood that we were living at home, that we were being supported, so we weren't going to actually be "living" on these wages.

In 1997, the union at NASSCO had entry wages for welders and electricians - requiring certification and training, but no experience, at $15.50 an hour with full benefits.
That would be $22.32 an hour today. But oddly enough, even though that union is still in place, and welders and electricians require even more certification and training before they apply, their entry wage with a six month wait for partial wages is $13.75. That's less than my comparative wage in 1977 for three months as a part-time, unskilled, "student" file clerk at the age of 17.

Makes you wonder why it's "okay" for grown, skilled adults trying to keep a house together to have to make due with making $8.00 an hour. Especially if they're skilled.
What makes that acceptable when people who labor to make money for those who invest have to make do with less and less while those who invest make even more? Why do so many who have been hurt already in the lower 50% seem to think that they deserve to live with making due with less because - what - work doesn't deserve compensation?
Should the assumption be, if you're starting out, you haven't paid enough dues to get a living wage that pays off your student loans, or allows you to start putting money aside for emergencies or retirement, or to save to buy a house or a car?

This race to the bottom in wages hurts everyone who works for a living. And it hurts the chances of of a decent wage for those who are living in a depressed area and working as hard as they can, because without maintaining good "entry level" wages - especially for those re-entering the workforce, you as an employee no longer have the ability to say "hey, the prevailing median wage in this field at this zip code is $50K a year - or $25.00 an hour. You're hiring me at this position that you need to support and grow your business, so I think I should be making at least $15.00 an hour instead of the minimum wage you are offering, and I'll work my ass off for you at that wage."

The thing to remember is that no employer hires unless the workload is such that they need someone to do the work. The problem is that the culture of employer/employee relations has degraded so much that work itself has no value, only profit has value. Labor is being increasingly divorced from revenue, and that's why it's now apparently okay to pay someone minimum wage to work their ass off making the employer twice to three times more than the employer is paying in costs. Labor is supposedly to shut up and be grateful for having a job that pays a pittance. Just like the more money you make, the less you are supposed to have to pay for the infrastructure you are making your profit off of.

Yes, my $50K a year can help someone who is poorer than me improve their situation. If their wage relationship with their employer allows it.


Solidarity!

Haele

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

kr HiPointDem Mar 2013 #1
K&R n/t OneGrassRoot Mar 2013 #2
K&R Sherman A1 Mar 2013 #3
"Austerity for thee, not for me . . ." HughBeaumont Mar 2013 #4
"We're not all in this together." moondust Mar 2013 #8
To "be competitive" ... Puzzler Mar 2013 #5
How is half of 28, 19? trumad Mar 2013 #6
It makes for a better story is my guess madokie Mar 2013 #7
I noted that also. xtraxritical Mar 2013 #66
Raises erpowers Mar 2013 #9
Because the 50% cut was 5 years ago Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #10
Gotcha trumad Mar 2013 #12
You left a sentence out... we need to know what "that" is bobclark86 Mar 2013 #32
It was cut in half and has now gotten to $19 csziggy Mar 2013 #78
CEOs are the New Royalty Octafish Mar 2013 #11
Is $19 per hour for an entry-level worker really that bad? Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #13
Is $21 million "reasonable" for ... 99Forever Mar 2013 #16
If every company in the US paid entry-level workers $19 per hour, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #22
No one... 99Forever Mar 2013 #25
+1. IMO, not only do we need a much higher minimum wage, winter is coming Mar 2013 #30
but MANY are actually feasting hfojvt Mar 2013 #36
Way to buy into the fascist bullshit. 99Forever Mar 2013 #38
whatever that means hfojvt Mar 2013 #48
Like crabs in a bucket. 99Forever Mar 2013 #51
yeah I know that one hfojvt Mar 2013 #56
Wrong. 99Forever Mar 2013 #59
oh I know hfojvt Mar 2013 #61
Still wrong. 99Forever Mar 2013 #67
Actually, wages from $25 to $40 an hour do trickle down to the economy at a high rate. haele Mar 2013 #44
1st Rate post Populist_Prole Mar 2013 #49
not really very populist hfojvt Mar 2013 #58
So a wage of $50K a year puts you in the elite? haele Mar 2013 #69
$50,000 a year puts you above about 50% of the rest of the country hfojvt Mar 2013 #72
Deep breath - The benefit is in the taxes and spending that the $50K - $100K does. haele Mar 2013 #74
you just keep repeating the argument for trickle down hfojvt Mar 2013 #75
No I'm making this point because this is part of the research I am doing for my degree. haele Mar 2013 #77
it's certainly not trickle DOWN hfojvt Mar 2013 #79
OK - 95% of my family income going to taxes and local businesses means I'm just like the top 1% haele Mar 2013 #80
swing some more? hfojvt Mar 2013 #81
Swing away - notice that though I tell you the percentage of taxes that come out of my paycheck - haele Mar 2013 #82
Side comment - If you want to know what your vet's life of luxery is, look up kestrel91316 haele Mar 2013 #83
No it isn't... dickensknitter Mar 2013 #18
That's about twice sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #26
sounds pretty darn good to me hfojvt Mar 2013 #33
So....why, out of curiosity... A HERETIC I AM Mar 2013 #57
What is a comfortable living? hfojvt Mar 2013 #60
That is a question only you can answer A HERETIC I AM Mar 2013 #62
except you are not talking about reality hfojvt Mar 2013 #65
So the idea that the person who MAKES the product you are buying BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #40
So, what do you think would be a fair hourly wage for entry-level employees? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #41
Here's my answer BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #42
Can't support a family of 4 in the Bay Area. That's right at the poverty level. demosincebirth Mar 2013 #53
When I had an entry-level job in the 1980s I couldn't even afford an apartment of my own. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2013 #14
And, I bet this CEO NewJeffCT Mar 2013 #15
Welcome to capitalism. nt TBF Mar 2013 #17
Message auto-removed setab Mar 2013 #19
that's what you take away from that? xchrom Mar 2013 #21
So... He's the new Jack Welch and all the MBA lemmings are following in his lead? Hugin Mar 2013 #20
And you still hear people edhopper Mar 2013 #23
But how many tee times has he sacrificed for that salary? At least, a couple. valerief Mar 2013 #24
The outsourcing was designed to lower our pay out of desperation for a job. Dustlawyer Mar 2013 #27
^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #39
Is there a profit sharing payout? n/t Mopar151 Mar 2013 #28
If we had Medicare for All, the worker's health insurance costs wouldn't be in car prices. Scuba Mar 2013 #29
It's one of those things that makes all the sense in the world, which is why it'll never happen. HughBeaumont Mar 2013 #35
Both of these are excellent responses nt BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #43
I will say this for Mullaly...he saved Ford from bankruptcy. Ikonoklast Mar 2013 #31
Yup. Agschmid Mar 2013 #46
K&R. Seems like 2 million would be wonderful enough. Overseas Mar 2013 #34
you expect somebody to live on just THAT? hfojvt Mar 2013 #37
Yes indeed. He's not the only one. And stock helps things along. Overseas Mar 2013 #50
k&r n/t RainDog Mar 2013 #45
Ford is also charging 30+ grand for a new car just1voice Mar 2013 #47
Now if the executives salaries was cut by half then the company could return the workers Thinkingabout Mar 2013 #52
Nope. Do the math. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #55
On the other hand, think about this; A HERETIC I AM Mar 2013 #63
There was a little story created with CEO Mulally in mind ... lpbk2713 Mar 2013 #64
The only real problem with that scenario is this: Without Mulally, there was a very real chance Ikonoklast Mar 2013 #68
Then he's probably worth about $500,000/year salary Duer 157099 Mar 2013 #70
k & r thanks for posting..... nt Stuart G Mar 2013 #71
Ford again in the news for negative shit. Rex Mar 2013 #73
It is the xxqqqzme Mar 2013 #76
Hate to say it, but for $21 million Ford under him ignores design for style... sfpcjock Mar 2013 #84
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