General Discussion

tech3149

(4,452 posts)

89. There is no benefit or positive outcome to military conflict

Reply to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2013, 07:26 PM

Mar 2013

North Korea would be suicidal to initiate any military action, If we or SK initiated aggressive actions against NK we would be seen as aggressors internationally and would have little if any defense.
Beyond that, if NK decided to provide no response to aggressive action we would be seen as belligerent aggressors throughout the world. We would only have a few minor countries around the world that would support our actions.
Even though we have the highest military spending of half of the rest of the world, our weapons systems are not designed to fight the enemy we created.
It's not like we're already broke, but kicking off that conflict, or any other, will probably take us over the edge.

My personal experience FWIW is that it's much more costly to generate enemies than to cultivate friends and allies. I think that would hold true on both the micro and macro scale.

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Where do you stand on a potential war with North Korea? [View all] charlie and algernon Mar 2013 OP

I fantasize about it, nukes away! quinnox Mar 2013 #1

Why are we trying to goad them into war by sending over our bombers to take part in war games? kelliekat44 Mar 2013 #50

War games are annual, held for decades--they are prescheduled. NK times their bullshit TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #54

Other. Skinner Mar 2013 #2

I tend to agree with you davidpdx Mar 2013 #96

+1 idwiyo Mar 2013 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Mar 2013 #3

If there is any country in the world more deserving of regime change, I can't think of it. denverbill Mar 2013 #4

Just make it quick. jonthebru Mar 2013 #5

It's already been 60 years...quick is off the table HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #9

tough one, I am absolutely anti-war but...... bowens43 Mar 2013 #6

I am also anti-war... retrogal Mar 2013 #32

The press should stop the chicken little act mainer Mar 2013 #7

The whole point of the exercises is to prepare for war with NK, and show them we'll TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #13

It's a vicious spiral mainer Mar 2013 #16

Here's the problem: backing down and ignoring them doesn't work. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #19

Seems to me we haven't tried much in the way of diplomacy mainer Mar 2013 #24

This is why you are wrong nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #28

You are talking about the 1970s?!!! mainer Mar 2013 #29

And 2011 nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #30

That was before Kim Jong Un took office. mainer Mar 2013 #39

Read this slowly and carefully nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #41

So ... "tension" is a good enough motive to start a preemptive war? mainer Mar 2013 #42

Your grasp of this nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #46

You cannot use prior hostilities mainer Mar 2013 #48

So you are telling me that nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #56

The poster didn't even say anything close to that. Her point was that the US had Dash87 Mar 2013 #116

We're ultimately not going to back down from a SMALL country that threatens to nuke us TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #35

Just like we refused to back from another SMALL country? mainer Mar 2013 #37

Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan are not really applicable here. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #51

Just curious, but why do you think the North Koreans are starving?.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #57

They could stop their nuke program, reinstate the armistice, cooperate internationally. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #62

What does China get out of all of this? For one thing, they get us to.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #66

I actually don't think paranoia is the big issue with them. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #68

Plus they get to keep the buffer between them and South Korea davidpdx Mar 2013 #98

see that's the issue right now: no one seems to be backing off yet charlie and algernon Mar 2013 #20

Kim is brand new at this. He HAS to respond with belligerence mainer Mar 2013 #23

For the record angrychair Mar 2013 #21

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster." Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2013 #8

North Korea exists as a weathervane for China markiv Mar 2013 #10

Are we not duty-bound by treaty to help SK in the event of a war? TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #11

We're also bound by treaty to defend Japan if they should come under attack by anyone else.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #15

Ask the American Indians Go Vols Mar 2013 #59

No argument with that. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #63

We have a treaty with South Korea, IIRC, and have an obligation kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #12

"NK is run by evil, batshit insane m'f'ers".... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #17

Not if you are counting Iraq. Iraq was based on a lie re: WMD. nt stevenleser Mar 2013 #33

We also used "Saddam is evil" repeatedly before Desert Storm and the second Iraq war.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #58

Feel free to show how North Korea's dictators are/were actually nice people. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #36

Saddam wasn't a nice man, either. mainer Mar 2013 #43

Your objection was that we are mischaracterizing them. jeff47 Mar 2013 #47

I would say George W. Bush went to war to "get" Saddam mainer Mar 2013 #49

Because we all know he was the one actually in charge. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #60

Who says they're "nice people"? Just saying it's been the main excuse we've used.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #53

Except it isn't. jeff47 Mar 2013 #64

So, demonizing the leader's of countries we plan to attack has not been part of the.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #67

Try reading the last sentence of my post this time. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2013 #70

Try answering the question directly next time. nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #132

by definition, any government we need to demonize or want to go is run by batshit insane HiPointDem Mar 2013 #128

Shades of Saddam and Iraq mainer Mar 2013 #14

if and only if.... raging_moderate Mar 2013 #18

If we REALLY care about Korean War vets, we should try to not make ANYMORE! HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #22

My 82 year old mother............... mrmpa Mar 2013 #25

I think Colin Powell should go to the UN.. Permanut Mar 2013 #26

Kim is a big fan of basketball. So is Obama. mainer Mar 2013 #27

Only Rodman could go to North Korea... AsahinaKimi Mar 2013 #77

We didn't win the first time. Why would we do it again? Cleita Mar 2013 #31

Police Action One_Life_To_Give Mar 2013 #34

Do not fire unless fired upon. backscatter712 Mar 2013 #38

With eager warmongers among us... mainer Mar 2013 #45

Its all Dennis Rodman's fault,,,,,,,,,,,,,, benld74 Mar 2013 #40

+1 charlie and algernon Mar 2013 #44

I'm not going Major Nikon Mar 2013 #52

Nor are my sons. mainer Mar 2013 #71

If you want it... 99Forever Mar 2013 #55

You must mean the resumption of open hostilities? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #61

Is N. Korea really so out of touch that they don't understand what we can do? talkingmime Mar 2013 #65

The question is how desperate they have become jeff47 Mar 2013 #72

Are you fucking serious???? darkangel218 Mar 2013 #69

The top response is "only if North Korea attacks" jeff47 Mar 2013 #73

Let South Korea fight its own wars! that simple! darkangel218 Mar 2013 #74

How bout if the UN sends troops? jeff47 Mar 2013 #85

US defied UN before. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #87

execpt for the fact that Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #90

Bring the troops back home and lets start looking after our OWN problems! darkangel218 Mar 2013 #97

what do you think the consequences Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #100

The "consequences" would be we would have enough revenue to invest in life rather than death darkangel218 Mar 2013 #111

nice try..... Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #112

I want to embolden NK. Is that OK with you? nt NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #117

If this upcoming war would only be thr last. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #120

Here's a link to pie chart that shows 19.2% goes to defense rather than 70%, bike man Mar 2013 #119

Try again. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #123

There are several pies in the federal budget, and one must look at the whole bakery bike man Mar 2013 #124

This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Mar 2013 #125

I dont even know why youre not in my iggy bin yet considering how youve harrased me in the past. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #126

What you're missing is we already responded. 60 years ago. jeff47 Mar 2013 #104

and there seems to be no way out of it mainer Mar 2013 #105

And yet again, you can't end a war unilaterally. jeff47 Mar 2013 #107

We are intentionally provoking North Korea Hugabear Mar 2013 #75

Exactly. darkangel218 Mar 2013 #79

Exactly. nt jessie04 Mar 2013 #84

Except that we aren't. jeff47 Mar 2013 #106

Right. And the North Koreans should believe they're not a threat because we've been.... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #133

I support a military response to an attack Serve The Servants Mar 2013 #76

lol! i was just about.to.go off on you :) darkangel218 Mar 2013 #78

You win this thread! idwiyo Mar 2013 #131

How about we fix our own problems, such as healthcare, roads, schools, etc darkangel218 Mar 2013 #80

Other: I seriously doubt anything is going to happen. Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #81

I think it's a head fake. Kim J-U wants to re-negotiate something. haele Mar 2013 #82

do they have oil or rare earth metals? datasuspect Mar 2013 #83

They have no significant natural resources. Which is why nobody wants to own North Korea. jeff47 Mar 2013 #108

You shouldn't just makes stuff up when somebody asks a question. JVS Mar 2013 #122

I'm not. jeff47 Mar 2013 #134

Yes, they do have rare earth metals. JVS Mar 2013 #121

Against. Apophis Mar 2013 #86

Unfortunately, the same thing we'd do if say England was attacked. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #88

There is no benefit or positive outcome to military conflict tech3149 Mar 2013 #89

war what is it good for walkerbait41 Mar 2013 #91

Lots of DUers want war too mainer Mar 2013 #92

There is really only one scenario davidpdx Mar 2013 #93

If we stop flying nuclear-capable jets near their borders mainer Mar 2013 #95

Sorry I'm not buying your arguement davidpdx Mar 2013 #99

IMO we should try to work with China. They actually have as much to lose if there is war as we do. I jwirr Mar 2013 #94

Technically the war of North Korean agression never ended it was only a ceasefire. Historic NY Mar 2013 #101

and by gawd, let's keep that war going! mainer Mar 2013 #103

Now you got it ... Historic NY Mar 2013 #110

Iraq was a whole different matter to North Korea... Violet_Crumble Mar 2013 #102

Only if they attack us. But otherwise I'm 150% against any war. Initech Mar 2013 #109

That little shithead in NK customerserviceguy Mar 2013 #113

All sides "working things out" only happens if all sides are sane and reasonable distantearlywarning Mar 2013 #114

We are stuck in the diplomatic equivalent of WWI trench warfare. bluedigger Mar 2013 #115

Id NK fires off a nuke an SK or the US there won't be a 'war' Rosco T. Mar 2013 #118

it's fucking psyops & covert big-power politics. the people in the cheap seats have no damn HiPointDem Mar 2013 #127

the decision to Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #129