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proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
58. Unsupportable and unsustainable given the current health trends. Wait and see.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 11:19 AM
Mar 2013

Last edited Wed Apr 3, 2013, 02:16 PM - Edit history (2)

Please read the full letter at the link provided. Here is an excerpt of 4 paragraphs. My apologies for any inadvertent copyright infringement.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/07/dear-dr-novella.html

Dr. Jon Poling to Dr. Steven Novella: Don't Attack the Moms

Managing Editor's Note: The following is a letter sent to Dr. Steven Novella, a neurologist at Yale University, from Dr. Jon Poling. (We've printed the letter with permission.) Dr. Novella is the founder of The New England Skeptical Society (meetings, 1st Tuesday of the month, on the lawn of the House of the Seven Gables, Salem, MA. BYOB (bring your own blinders.) and is a contributing editor to Quackwatch. Dr. Poling is a neurologist/PhD and the father of Miss Hannah Poling.

Dear Dr. Novella,

<>

With regard to the science of Autism, I have no argument with the assertion that a single case does not prove causation of a generalized autism-vaccine link. What the case does illustrate though is a more subtle point that many physicians cannot or do not want to comprehend (ostensibly because vaccines are too important to even question). Autism is a heterogeneous disorder defined by behavioral criteria and having multiple causes. Epidemiological studies which have not found a link between autism and aspects of vaccination do not consider the concept of autism subgroups. Indeed, in a heterogeneous disorder like Autism, subgroups may indeed be ‘vaccine-injured’ but the effect is diluted out in the larger population (improperly powered study due to inability to calculate effect size with unknown susceptible subpopulation). I think former NIH Director, Dr. Bernadine Healey explained it best in that population epidemiology studies are not “granular” enough to rule-out a susceptible subgroup.

Furthermore, ‘science’ has not systematically studied the children who fell ill following vaccination to determine what the cause(s) for their adverse reaction was. It would follow that if you never tried to understand why a single child developed encephalopathy following vaccination—you wouldn’t have the first clue as to what aspects of vaccination you could alter which could increase the relative risk of that adverse event (whether it be thimerosal, live virus, or ‘too many’). Could the susceptibility be a mitochondrial genetic haplogroup similar to Chloramphenicol toxicity—sure it could! Why did a few Alzheimer’s patients die of fatal encephalitis following administration of the failed AN-1792 vaccine, but the majority had no ill effects (vaccine didn’t work though)?

Definition: Autism is a heterogeneous systemic disorder with primary neuropsychiatric manifestations due to complex genetic and gene-environmental interactions likely affecting synaptic plasticity early in childhood development. This new theory of Autism is rapidly replacing the ‘old guard’ dictum that Autism is a genetically predetermined developmental brain disorder of synaptic formation/pruning that is set in motion prenatally. By the ‘10 year rule of science,’ your time is about up!

Until the biological basis of ASD subgroups are better understood, further epidemiological and genetic studies regarding “Autism” causation will be relatively meaningless. We need good science to be able to address these complex issues which parallel nicely the emerging story of genetic and environmental influences in Parkinson’s disease. Perhaps some Parkinson’s researchers want to take a crack at Autism?

<>

Thank-you Dr. Novella and his band of skeptics for continuing the debate.

Dr. Jon Poling

Jon S. Poling MD PhD
Managing Partner, Athens Neurological Associates
Clinical Assistant Professor, Department of Neurology, Medical College of Georgia
Diplomate, American Association of Neuromuscular and Electrodiagnostic Medicine
ASN Certified in MRI and CT Neuroimaging

Posted by Age of Autism at July 22, 2008

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I love vaccines. nt ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #1
k&r uppityperson Mar 2013 #2
Hug me; I'm vaccinated! longship Mar 2013 #3
So once again money was diverted from necessary research Warpy Mar 2013 #4
Oh? proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #7
The only difference is a specific diagnosis Warpy Mar 2013 #13
Oh? proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #36
Oh, people without a medical background writing about a medical condition Warpy Mar 2013 #47
The majority have a child with autism and have ZERO ulterior motives to mislead or misdirect. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #57
So what? That certainly doesn't make them experts or qualified. morningfog Mar 2013 #62
That factor alone doesn't cut it, I agree with you. They are saying to the public there is more. proverbialwisdom Apr 2013 #63
I see you found more time. morningfog Apr 2013 #64
Please see graphics in posts #33 , #35 and #59 together in order to grasp the concerns of many @AOA. proverbialwisdom Apr 2013 #65
I have to give you props on being prepared.. snooper2 Apr 2013 #68
Age of Autism... SidDithers Mar 2013 #22
Oh? proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #5
Poor Ed doesn't quite understand science. morningfog Mar 2013 #9
The analogy is simple and accessible. So is the information here. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #11
The analogy is stupid. morningfog Mar 2013 #12
So forget the analogy. Recent remarks by these four establishment researchers contradict the study. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #15
Did you even read what you posted? morningfog Mar 2013 #18
I'd like to recommend that you read these quotes in their full context at the linked posts. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #25
"Dr. Geraldine Dawson, chief science officer for the advocacy group Autism Speaks." Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #34
That 2009 publicity campaign sounds abysmal, though created by two fathers of children with autism. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #39
analogies are not evidence. nt Deep13 Mar 2013 #30
Agreed. This merits more than analogies or platitudes. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #33
So, what do YOU think is the reason? morningfog Mar 2013 #37
What I think isn't the issue. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #43
No reason to believe the figures. Deep13 Mar 2013 #46
He sure as hell doesn't understand the immune system! Warpy Mar 2013 #48
k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #6
so how long until the woo people show up? name not needed Mar 2013 #8
They have arrived. morningfog Mar 2013 #10
it shames me that people think age of autism our adventure in autism should be Godhumor Mar 2013 #20
They're always here, posting rubbish from rubbishy websites Warpy Mar 2013 #49
Unsupportable and unsustainable given the current health trends. Wait and see. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #58
Du rec. Nt xchrom Mar 2013 #14
Good - hopefully the funding for all these studies can now be better directed bhikkhu Mar 2013 #16
If I could recommend an individual post, I'd recommend yours! LeftishBrit Mar 2013 #19
Well said...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #23
some of those funds need to be directed towards transitioning adults from school to work and liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #28
indeed La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #44
The implications of the flawed control group design discussed here by AOA contributor J.Thompson. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #17
Do you seriously think links to ageofautism help your argument?...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #24
Please consider the primary sources cited, NOT the news aggregator/analysis websites, per se. nt proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #26
Then you should post the primary source without the advocacy site middleman...nt SidDithers Mar 2013 #27
No control was needed in this type of study. MAD Dave Mar 2013 #52
May I also point out Wakefield was found to have committed fraud MAD Dave Mar 2013 #54
UK CryShame press release - 9 March 2013 proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #60
DURec. Another win for science over superstition... SidDithers Mar 2013 #21
Exactly MAD Dave Mar 2013 #55
I read about this in Well, No Shit! magazine. nt Deep13 Mar 2013 #29
Did you read this, too? proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #32
You anti-vaxxers are letting your paranoid superstitions... Deep13 Mar 2013 #45
You non-science anti-vaxers scare the shit out of me. n-t Logical Mar 2013 #53
vaccines save lives period. bench scientist Mar 2013 #31
Ginger Taylor: Overall health outcomes matter, not merely reduction of communicable disease levels. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #35
Wow. "merely reduction of communicable disease levels." morningfog Mar 2013 #38
I was quoting Ginger Taylor's recent testimony before the Maine legislature re: informed consent. proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #40
Ginger Taylor is a calloused ass, then. Some real asshole depravity there. morningfog Mar 2013 #50
I don't have more time to spend on this, however... according to research posted at AOA, proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #59
Glad you won't be posting any more of that tripe in this thread. morningfog Mar 2013 #61
Now that you are locked out, you really won't be adding anymore tripe to this thread! morningfog Apr 2013 #75
Is phenylketonuria caused by consumption of phenylalanine? eridani Mar 2013 #41
This was obvious to everyone but gullible idiots. sagat Mar 2013 #42
Exactly. So what about the 99% of EVERYONE ELSE who's vaccinated and WITHOUT autism alp227 Apr 2013 #70
Here is the abstract of the study if anyone is interested davidpdx Mar 2013 #51
I used to HATE statistics...... MAD Dave Mar 2013 #56
Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #66
SPAM^^^^ morningfog Apr 2013 #67
Brian Hooker criticizes a vaccine safety study; hilarity ensues SidDithers Apr 2013 #69
Try some real studies that show proof KRAD74 Apr 2013 #71
Have you links to any "real studies that show proof"? Welcome to DU. uppityperson Apr 2013 #72
That's the problem. KRAD74 Apr 2013 #73
That's because all the research supports vaccines. Those who refuse vaccines are selfish morningfog Apr 2013 #74
Some are not saying to refuse vaccines all together KRAD74 Apr 2013 #76
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