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LWolf

(46,179 posts)
115. I'm going to have to make this one the last.
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 01:48 PM
Mar 2013
If you've got the time or its easy to do, I'd like any links to source material about these two teams and their work.

I could dig through files at work and probably find the name of at least the group working with my district. It's not likely to happen, though. Once I get to work I'm scrambling to get more done than time allows, knowing I'll be there for at least 10 hours, often 11, sometimes beyond that; I'm pretty single-minded and not likely to remember a spring break conversation on DU.

I'm not sure why you think that a teacher whose techniques have been validated by objective testing would be reluctant to share them.

1. "objective testing." We're not against objective testing, but at this time there is no such thing.

2. We aren't reluctant; it's setting us up to compete with each other that creates that reluctance. On our own, we share all the time.

3. There really isn't such a thing as the "star" teacher. There are teachers. Some are weaker, some are stronger, and, in general, every teacher has both strengths and weaknesses. Every teacher has something of value to share, and something that he or she can use help with improving.

4. For us, our students are individuals. It's all about the individual. When we talk about our students, we're sharing concerns, frustrations, and successes about individuals, not a whole group. While we might share something about the whole class..."I did this thing and they loved it!" Those tend to be about a lesson that went well. When we share concerns and frustrations, they are about specific students, and the strategies we share tend to be those that have worked with other individuals in our experience. We aren't referring to a list of interventions that have been statistically quantified, but to those that have been successful for some in the room. To think that any one strategy or method works with every student is nonsensical. To think that teaching, and teachers, can be limited to "either/or" polarized thinking is misleading, to say the least. Disciplinarians can be inspiring, or not. Not every teacher has to be a particular type of person to inspire. As a matter of fact, some students are more inspired by Teacher A, others by Teacher B, and still others by Teacher C. No teacher inspires everyone. Every teacher should be trying to build a positive working relationship with every student. Some students prefer disciplinarians, because the order feels safer to them. Others don't like toeing the line. The bottom line is that students are different. They don't all respond to the same thing the same way, or the same person the same way, which is why we bring experience to the table. We rely on our collective experience, which is different than something statistically quantified. We're trying to find a solution for an individual, who may or may not respond like the statistical norm.

Like these, standardized testing of student's educational attainment is a non-monetary, non-market measure of the success of our educational system.

Standardized tests do not measure the whole of a student's educational attainment. As a matter of fact, they don't measure much of it. They can be useful, when high-stakes are not attached, as a small part of a larger measurement system. The misuse of high-stakes standardized tests has led to LESS learning, as I've already illustrated.


If teachers don't think standardized testing is a fair and accurate way of evaluating their performance, then they have a professional responsibility to the public they serve to come up with a way that is mutually acceptable. If teachers don't take the initiative, they will eventually, one way or another, have one imposed on them.

A professional responsibility to the public? The public doesn't listen. We aren't at the table when those at the top are formulating evaluation policies. Oh, at the local level, we'll be included in meetings about evaluation procedures, but by that time, we are continually reminded that the feds and the state have already dictated what will be, and that we can decide how to comply, but we can't overturn those mandates.

Take the initiative? Who says we haven't? The fact that we don't have a voice with tptb doesn't mean that we haven't been speaking out, that we haven't been working on this all along. Nobody brings our ideas to the table.

In reality, coming up with a fair and accurate way to evaluate teachers' performance has not yet been done. Ideas? Yes. Ideas that work in practice? Not so much. Just a few of the ideas we've debated:

Parent and student surveys: If parents and students are happy with the teacher, that means the teacher is doing a good job, right? A good job at what? Building relationships that lead to successful learning, to creating a working partnership with the family. Those are important things. I guess you can measure it on a survey. But...what are the pitfalls? Disgruntled parents and students can use those surveys, not to give objective information, but as a weapon. Are there reasons why parents or students would be disgruntled with a good teacher? Sure. It happens all the time with some who don't like being held accountable for things like attendance, behavior, or work habits. Can some parents and students who love their teacher skew such surveys with overly positive responses, because the teacher is nice, and they like the classroom, regardless of whether or not students are learning what they should? Of course. Could parents use those surveys to punish or reward teachers based on their perception of a teacher's politics or faith or race? Of course.

Teacher portfolios: Like student portfolios to demonstrate learning in an alternate format, can teachers demonstrate proficiency with a portfolio? In part. A teacher's portfolio could contain things like outstanding lesson plans with notes about results and future modifications; student and parent communications; examples of efforts to differentiate for individual student needs; records of various professional work groups the teacher has led and participated in; evidence of collegial collaboration...of course, the time invested in creating and maintaining such a portfolio is extensive, and no district is likely to add that paid time into a teacher's contract.

Observations: The traditional observation is not effective, to say the least. Right now, across the country, districts are experimenting with numerous, "drop-in" (no advance notice) "mini" observations, which are compiled into a summative evaluation at the end of the year. I've seen this done well. As a matter of fact, I had an admin who did this back in the 90s, and it was my favorite kind of observation. He would just drop in whenever, at least a couple of times a month, sometimes more. He might stay for 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, or an hour. He would participate and interact with students, ask questions about what was going on, write up his notes, and use those notes to write a several-page narrative about what he observed, strengths, weaknesses, and suggestions for improvement. The modern version is a little different. In those minis, there is...you guessed it. A checklist of things to look for. If they are there, you get a positive write-up. If they aren't, not so much. These are focused, not on the actual experience of students in the classroom, but of "objective, quantifiable" behavior on the part of the teacher. Things like whether or not standards are posted on the wall.

Peer observation: this is more useful as professional development than for evaluative purposes.d

There are others. All of them have some merit, and something that keeps it from being the ultimate answer. Here's one I like the best: Long-term data.

For example, my very small K-8 school tracks data after we send students to high school. Compared to the traditional large middle schools, our students have a higher gpa and a higher rate of graduation. Considering that we have the lowest SES and the highest percentage of sped students in our district, that's saying something. My students, despite the low SES and high sped count, by percentage, take more IB and AP classes than those students coming from other schools.

That's some data that has meaning for me, and for my school. The whole point is not to produce scores on a standardized test, but to prepare students for what comes next. Data that we've done that successfully, in the form of gpa, graduation rate, etc.. is valuable. Of course, a lot of what we do has nothing to do with standardized tests, and it's a group effort, so that makes it hard to use for the evaluation of individual teachers.

For individuals, until we have something better, I'd like to see student and parent surveys and observations, and observations of the type I experienced back in the 90s. The goal, for me, is to demonstrate that I'm doing my job. That job is to provide abundant opportunity to learn, and abundant support in the effort to learn. The learning itself is the student's job.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

K&R idwiyo Mar 2013 #1
K&R Teamster Jeff Mar 2013 #2
K&R G_j Mar 2013 #3
Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #4
Damn! That might leave a well earned mark. TheKentuckian Mar 2013 #6
Well, think about it. Le Taz Hot Mar 2013 #5
And Arne Duncan never spent a day in a school teaching and so does not know timdog44 Mar 2013 #44
that is a gross exaggeration, and this cheating occurred before obama was elected. mopinko Mar 2013 #68
When are the links coming that prove what a wonderful job UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #7
That's one thing you will never find here because duffyduff Mar 2013 #59
The sad thing is that a lot of the things in-the-trenches teachers advocate winter is coming Mar 2013 #8
those jerks and their minions shoudl be prosecutedunder RICO, elehhhhna Mar 2013 #9
And it is the kids who suffer most of all Fearless Mar 2013 #10
I'm not sure how protecting the integrety of the system... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #11
Maybe because tests abelenkpe Mar 2013 #16
Absolutely Iwillnevergiveup Mar 2013 #20
In general, what is wrong with "teaching to the tests"... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #23
Tests don't -- and can't -- measure understanding starroute Mar 2013 #28
I think your observation may refer to a restrictive subset of tests... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #38
Au contraire. AdHocSolver Mar 2013 #77
+1 Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #79
Ma réplique... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #81
Standardized tests don't necessarily measure anything. AdHocSolver Mar 2013 #91
The Bell Curve... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #94
I was clueless until I had kids in the school system-Ed has changed beyond the comprehension of many lunasun Mar 2013 #97
There is no worse system of education than 'teaching to the test'. sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #56
Fine. But do you have any testing to back that up? reACTIONary Mar 2013 #87
You don't teach to any test. That is not the purpose of testing. You EDUCATE sabrina 1 Mar 2013 #95
+1000s (n/t) bread_and_roses Mar 2013 #107
Nothing. Works fine for lawyers, CPAs, and other industry exams... Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #84
Solidarity, Comrade! (nt) reACTIONary Mar 2013 #88
Except that's not how it works. jeff47 Mar 2013 #114
What would you propose? What would be the best way... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #22
Either the Finnish system which does not test or a portfolio system where kids Orlandodem Mar 2013 #36
I've heard of the "Finnish system" and just looked it up... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #43
Finland, a tiny country with a tiny population, is not the United States duffyduff Mar 2013 #60
How 'bout we trust teachers to solve this? jeff47 Mar 2013 #39
I can give you a very authoratative answer... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #47
No, we don't. jeff47 Mar 2013 #52
I think you make a good point... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #55
You're still missing the central point jeff47 Mar 2013 #57
dumb or hungry? reACTIONary Mar 2013 #92
Apparently, you needed more tests in reading comprehension jeff47 Mar 2013 #113
Teachers can evaluate students... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #118
No. Students are not "products" - nor is knowledge a "product." bread_and_roses Mar 2013 #110
The Hallowed Halls... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #112
The education "reformers" are starting at the WRONG END. AdHocSolver Mar 2013 #82
RE: They did an across-the-board reevaluation of everything... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #85
If you don't understand what is wrong with that, LWolf Mar 2013 #75
I think you make some very good points... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #78
Did you know that, LWolf Mar 2013 #86
Thanks for the reply... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #111
I'm going to have to make this one the last. LWolf Mar 2013 #115
Thanks again, I'll read through it carefully (nt) reACTIONary Mar 2013 #117
When non-teachers who don't know anything about education tell teachers how to do their jobs, duffyduff Apr 2013 #122
Do teachers... reACTIONary Apr 2013 #123
amen to all that (n/t) bread_and_roses Mar 2013 #116
Because tests that do that don't exist. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #108
And she wouldn't have been caught if the teachers hadn't told on her. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #12
Except that isn't how I would generally describe what happened... cherokeeprogressive Mar 2013 #67
There are umpteen versions of how it all came down. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #70
k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #13
But but but ... 99Forever Mar 2013 #14
K&R formercia Mar 2013 #15
LOL, someone alerted this and lost badly! Here are the results! Logical Mar 2013 #17
"birtheresque comment" zeemike Mar 2013 #24
I thank you jury and my child thanks you too. liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #62
You get what you measure. nt antigop Mar 2013 #18
And one wonders why anyone would be against measurement. (nt) reACTIONary Mar 2013 #26
depends upon what is being measured and what we are "getting". In this case, look what allegedly antigop Mar 2013 #33
Agreed. And I hope this serves an example for others. (nt) reACTIONary Mar 2013 #89
There are so many answers and I wish I could go into them all now. BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #40
My bet is... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #90
Since learning is strictly up to the desire or ability of kids to learn, it can't measure duffyduff Mar 2013 #64
You don't believe that teachers can be inspiring... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #83
K&R!!!!! Public not profit! Dark n Stormy Knight Mar 2013 #19
A very hearty K&R! demmiblue Mar 2013 #21
45 years ?!? Geez, it's not like she crashed the economy or lied us into war. eppur_se_muova Mar 2013 #25
A good article, a stupid OP bhikkhu Mar 2013 #27
Would you say that Obama and Duncan have pushed back on MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #32
As far as I can see, they've done nothing in 4 years on that bhikkhu Mar 2013 #37
Race to the Top is Obama's baby and is 1,000 times worse than NCLB. n/t duffyduff Mar 2013 #63
+10000000 nt woo me with science Apr 2013 #120
Check this Salon article it's happening in other places. erinlough Mar 2013 #34
Cheating Runs Rampant/Salon/May2012 ReRe Mar 2013 #98
Good post! A very astute point... reACTIONary Mar 2013 #106
We get it. savebigbird Mar 2013 #109
Arne Duncan following NCLB is a trainwreck for public education PufPuf23 Mar 2013 #29
It sure has been. nt LWolf Mar 2013 #30
sssshhhhhh... we best be silent.. nt PufPuf23 Mar 2013 #31
As much as DU hates Bush with a passion you would think more people would liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #74
This article is more sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #35
Interesting, thank you. Starry Messenger Mar 2013 #41
I was chased off another site for daring to speak against the Gates foundation BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #42
Not sure what you said to get chased off timdog44 Mar 2013 #48
He has plenty of money to buy good PR though BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #53
Here's the problem: for the "reformers", it isn't about education. Marr Mar 2013 #45
Absolutely. BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #46
Sadly, both Eli Broad sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #50
Even convicted criminals are. Case in point: Michael Milken. n/t duffyduff Mar 2013 #61
Yea, he's come along way sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #69
He and Bill Bennett are in cahoots with K-12 duffyduff Mar 2013 #76
yes, the democratic politicians are perfectly fine with sacrificing unions to get some corporate liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #72
K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2013 #49
My only comment is this did not start with Obama..... Swede Atlanta Mar 2013 #51
+1 freshwest Mar 2013 #58
I think you have timdog44 Mar 2013 #66
As a former public school teacher, I say you have pretty good insight into the situation. Regarding Dark n Stormy Knight Mar 2013 #71
It didn't start with Obama. LWolf Mar 2013 #73
So what? woo me with science Mar 2013 #102
Virtually everything junior foisted upon America was imo either: illegal, immoral, inhumane, indepat Mar 2013 #54
Du rec. Nt xchrom Mar 2013 #65
K&R Canuckistanian Mar 2013 #80
Atlanta could do for education "reform" what Newtown did for reasonble gun control. hay rick Mar 2013 #93
I’m an Obama guy and think many of his center right positions were always as a result of his busterbrown Mar 2013 #96
Dr Beverly Hall/Atlanta School cheating/NYTimes ReRe Mar 2013 #99
K&R woo me with science Mar 2013 #100
An embarassment? Yea, but very profitable. AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #101
Ed reform is the sh/t. blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #103
It's not complicated: Follow The Politicians fredamae Mar 2013 #104
Passed on to my state ed committee ranking member. Thav Mar 2013 #105
You've probably read this, but... savebigbird Apr 2013 #119
Chris Hayes is doing a segment on this tonight octoberlib Apr 2013 #121
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