General Discussion

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,477 posts)

94. The problem is that if you say things that are demonstrably untrue

Tue Apr 2, 2013, 12:14 PM

Apr 2013

such as "Catholics do not know whether the Pope is being infallible or not", then those of us who know it is untrue will jump on that and go no further. It's as if you were to start by saying "I really don't know that I'm talking about", which is self-defeating.

Are there Catholics who don't know enough about their own religion? Certainly. I am active in the adult education and RCIA (i.e., convert instruction) programs in my parish. I have heard some of the most appalling misstatements of fact from some of them. I own a book intended to explain the Catholic faith to non-Catholics, Expressions of the Catholic Faith, by Kevin Orlin Johnson, PhD (he has the "PhD" on the cover and the title page), which at times displays quite remarkable ignorance of the Catholic faith.

But don't assume that Catholics in general are ignorant.

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Pope�s Foot-Wash a Final Straw for Traditionalist Catholics [View all] RandySF Mar 2013 OP

The old guard is really running scared. Pab Sungenis Mar 2013 #1

you had the same thought I did niyad Mar 2013 #2

Me, too. In fact I posted it. nt caseymoz Apr 2013 #60

The Old Guard is like the Republican wing of the Vatican Berlum Apr 2013 #41

The article shows both Reactionaries and Libs wary about which way he will jump UTUSN Mar 2013 #3

I'm not expecting radical reform. RandySF Mar 2013 #4

I'd be happy if he reaffirmed Vatican II UTUSN Mar 2013 #6

No, the clenched toes are saying, pnwmom Mar 2013 #13

I hope he doesn't get Athlete's Mouth... JoeBlowToo Apr 2013 #103

Isn't the Pope Infallible? So Critics are Heretics. dballance Mar 2013 #5

The term of art is "inerrent in questions of faith" Bucky Mar 2013 #8

Thank You for an Alternate View dballance Mar 2013 #11

But only when he declares a doctrine "ex cathedra" which has only happened twice in history. n/t pnwmom Mar 2013 #15

Infallibility's only been invoked a handful of times in the last few centuries anyway. Posteritatis Mar 2013 #31

Burn them! nt. OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #10

No... RudynJack Mar 2013 #12

Only when he makes a statement "ex cathedra" -- that is, under certain specific conditions pnwmom Mar 2013 #14

Ridiculous comment Drahthaardogs Mar 2013 #16

Well, First of All... dballance Mar 2013 #17

Okay, sit back and I will explain Drahthaardogs Mar 2013 #25

Thanks for the Education - Really. dballance Mar 2013 #27

You seem to follow Jesus' teachings a lot better than that sarcastic "explainer." nt SunSeeker Apr 2013 #59

I do try to be a student of life dballance Apr 2013 #68

Keep up the good work. SunSeeker Apr 2013 #75

Thank You dballance Apr 2013 #112

Yes, Bob Forbid anyone should confuse gibberish with religious dogma. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #50

LOL. nt SunSeeker Apr 2013 #58

Yeah, cause the Catholic Church is so bad, we can blame for it shit it does not even believe. Drahthaardogs Apr 2013 #64

No, I think the stuff it actually claims is bad enough. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #66

Then call it out on one like that, Drahthaardogs Apr 2013 #71

What am I arguing? I made a joke about the indistinguishability of religious dogma from gibberish. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #74

Or nationalism. Or economics. Or politics. Or even philosophies.. LanternWaste Apr 2013 #69

No, economics deals with things that are real. Money is real. Labor is real. Buying, selling, Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #73

We want Barabas! FSogol Apr 2013 #70

Please take some humility lessons from your wonderful Pope. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #78

He's "narrowly" infallible. caseymoz Apr 2013 #62

Where the hell did you come up with this bullshit? Drahthaardogs Apr 2013 #72

Not conjecture, that was sarcasm. caseymoz Apr 2013 #81

You can't prove your last sentence. It is, therefore, a statement of faith. patrice Apr 2013 #85

I have been trying to say that in other threads Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #89

The nature of what we refer to as "proof", upon which all rational empiricism, that is, what patrice Apr 2013 #95

Which is my point Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #96

Except . . . caseymoz Apr 2013 #107

Abiogenesis cannot be reproduced in a laboratory. Drahthaardogs Apr 2013 #111

And how many other possible explanations are there caseymoz Apr 2013 #113

Just like you can't prove Zeus doesn't exist. trotsky Apr 2013 #108

You don't have to do that. caseymoz Apr 2013 #110

I'll reiterate why it's not. caseymoz Apr 2013 #97

Not exactly Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #100

The way you force your straw man is rude. caseymoz Apr 2013 #104

You understand the difference between knowing and believing. caseymoz Apr 2013 #93

You do realize that your "source" asked when the Pope issues an encyclical, right? Drahthaardogs Apr 2013 #109

Does it occur to you they don't weigh it at all? caseymoz Apr 2013 #114

Wrong! Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #88

Thank you for the correction, caseymoz Apr 2013 #92

The problem is that if you say things that are demonstrably untrue Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #94

Unless you can cite a representative survey of Catholics caseymoz Apr 2013 #99

THIS! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #102

TPM: Pope's Easter Homily on the role of women is "upsetting apple carts" Bucky Mar 2013 #7

So far I like him too. I'm not Catholic so I'm not up on Raine Mar 2013 #24

This is how he is supposed to be. AngryOldDem Apr 2013 #39

+1 for "Mentos version of Thomas Aquinas" n/t Beartracks Apr 2013 #37

Darn right!...... OldDem2012 Mar 2013 #9

That may be unlikely. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #19

Benedict is no longer pope. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #18

deep snooper2 Mar 2013 #20

Poor babies, and there is so little royalty left these days to idolize Warpy Mar 2013 #21

"a militant humility" BainsBane Mar 2013 #22

That's those Jesuits for you AnnieBW Mar 2013 #33

Anything that pisses off extreme Catholics is good in my book. Apophis Mar 2013 #23

These people act as if there's nothing wrong with the Church that returning to tradition can't fix BeyondGeography Mar 2013 #26

Hopefully traditionalist Catholics and Teabaggers will be thrown in the dustbin of history. Crowman1979 Mar 2013 #28

Of course they will broadcaster75201 Mar 2013 #30

Sell all that you have and give it to the poor. Waiting on something real, not a photo-op NT broadcaster75201 Mar 2013 #29

The Holy Spirit is Alive and Making Mischief AnnieBW Mar 2013 #32

K&R DeSwiss Apr 2013 #34

I want to somehow use "spittle-flecked nutty" in daily conversation. LOL n/t Beartracks Apr 2013 #35

Footwashing is a very old tradition and BlueMTexpat Apr 2013 #36

Yeah! How DARE he act like a Christian! AngryOldDem Apr 2013 #38

Ain't that the truth. raouldukelives Apr 2013 #45

Some powers-that-be of the RCC are going to be dragged out of the 3rd century screaming and kicking. bulloney Apr 2013 #40

Are we seeing a Pope who cares Andy Stanton Apr 2013 #42

Those numbskulls can all go straight to hell. Sheldon Cooper Apr 2013 #43

Not a roman catholic JustAnotherGen Apr 2013 #44

This is all about class and not about religion starroute Apr 2013 #46

Even the most faithful Catholics realize that there something dreadfully wrong. olegramps Apr 2013 #47

I think the RCC may have a Father Pedro for pope Wolf Frankula Apr 2013 #48

I hope Ratzinger's grinding his teeth wryter2000 Apr 2013 #49

don't they understand the importance of good foot hygiene? ZRT2209 Apr 2013 #51

I am starting to like this Pope! Rex Apr 2013 #52

"militant humility"... awoke_in_2003 Apr 2013 #53

Best made up term ive heard in awhile Bradical79 Apr 2013 #105

Really? The last straw? Shadowflash Apr 2013 #54

We might have a term that identifies a liberal Catholic, WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2013 #55

the traditionalists knew he would do this madrchsod Apr 2013 #56

The Church leadership desperately needs some humility and openness JPZenger Apr 2013 #57

So this guy is pope for less than 2 weeks and they pack it in that quickly? Javaman Apr 2013 #61

People are upset over helping the poor? caseymoz Apr 2013 #63

+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #65

Let me rephrase that Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2013 #90

This is where the Traditionalists get to practice what they preach Demeter Apr 2013 #67

Damn that "militant humility~!" MADem Apr 2013 #76

Yeah, who the hell needs a Mass you can understand and SHARE by participating in it? patrice Apr 2013 #77

God speaks English now instead of Latin? Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #82

I did that kind of stuff 6 days a week for 12 years of my life: Gregorian Chant, sacristan, Legion patrice Apr 2013 #83

here is the TRAGEDY DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #79

There are different perspectives on all of that. You have picked the one that you like, probably on patrice Apr 2013 #84

Trying to philosophize? DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #86

Where's the pedicure spa??? Huh?? Jesus with toenail clippers?? Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #80

I think the whole foot washing thing is creepy Sky Masterson Apr 2013 #87

Haters are going to hate.... AnneD Apr 2013 #91

The hypocrisy is astounding! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #98

LOL! Politicalboi Apr 2013 #101

Are catholic feet traditionally dirty? unblock Apr 2013 #106