General Discussion

defacto7

(14,159 posts)

270. It happens there...

Tue Apr 2, 2013, 09:57 PM

Apr 2013

it happens here.

France has it's own issues with the old Latin machismo image and it's wrong when it happens, but I believe it is a dying ugly habit. A blanket statement about "what it's like in France" based on an article may represent an attitude that exists, but does it represent the direction of French society? It does show us a viewpoint of an ugly old theme that exists in the world in general.

I have lived in Germany, The Netherlands, Italy, Great Britain and Sweden and a short stint in France. My wife is East German. When she was when 6 years old, she, her mother and aunt escaped to West Germany when the wall was still up. My perspective doesn't come only from my experience but mostly it comes from them. What they see here with the prudish attitudes in America used to be something they laughed at. Now it's something of perplexity and disbelief that this country could continue to be so backward. They are the most solid, uninhibited, outspoken, take no shit, women I have ever known. I guess that's why I love them so much!!

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Why are tits so fetishized? [View all] XemaSab Mar 2013 OP

I'm more of an ass/legs/tummy guy. nt Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #1

Put an orange in a box... Bonobo Mar 2013 #2

Strangely enough over dinner I had a conversation with my wife about apples and oranges. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #7

really NJCher Apr 2013 #278

We actually were. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #294

Then one would think the "fetish" would be exhausted caseymoz Mar 2013 #11

Sexual attraction is socialized. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #13

To a degree. caseymoz Mar 2013 #23

What types of inflexible "things" are you referring to? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #32

The traits vary from person to person. caseymoz Mar 2013 #38

"Sensation will trump socialization every time." - Absolutely, unequivicably false. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #51

There's nowhere to go in this conversation, then. caseymoz Mar 2013 #88

We shouldn't "cure" homosexuality because it is not wrong or unhealthy. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #102

But as the superior or supreme entity . . . caseymoz Mar 2013 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #303

Where have I said that? Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #306

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #307

There was no alternative implication that you suggest. That is your own construction. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #308

Then why is "reparative therapy" found to be useless, in fact harmful, in most cases? nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #99

Because socialization does necessitate conscious intent. So you cannot will yourself to change. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #104

Okay, that makes sense. I should've kept in mind that socialization is a mostly unconscious process. nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #199

I think that's right NJCher Apr 2013 #279

Its funny FarrenH Apr 2013 #289

You said it without realizing it, I think. Bonobo Mar 2013 #14

Most boys in puberty have likely seen hundreds or even thousands of breasts. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #15

Internet pictures don't count. Bonobo Mar 2013 #17

There is nothing forbidden about the female body. It is elevated as permenantly accessible. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #18

I disagree. Bonobo Mar 2013 #24

Fetishized objects are not valued. They are in fact devalued. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #28

So you do not accept the relationship Bonobo Mar 2013 #37

There is no scarcity. There is an influx. But that is neither here nor there. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #46

So this is the only case in the entire culture where easy access results in inflated value? Bonobo Mar 2013 #50

The female body is not valued at all. It is devalued continuously. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #54

Breasts themselves may not be scarce, but access to them is, indeed... hence the value. opiate69 Mar 2013 #52

I will say again, the female body is not valued. It is minimalized. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #55

That is not what fetishizing is about. Bonobo Mar 2013 #58

I think you've nailed it pretty thoroughly. Marr Apr 2013 #208

And you'll still be wrong... opiate69 Mar 2013 #59

If I'm wrong, then some of the greatest feminists and philosophers are wrong. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #66

While we're making reading suggestions...find some books written by actual scientists. opiate69 Mar 2013 #67

You cannot quantize or render wholly biological human sexual experience. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #71

Why do I get the feeling we're sliding into Woo territory? opiate69 Mar 2013 #77

What is within the reach of all men at all times? The2ndWheel Mar 2013 #61

The idea that the female body is physically inaccessible to men is absurd. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #68

Ask this guy how accessible it is. Bonobo Mar 2013 #75

A. I am a man. B. Women systemically experience sex without pleasure. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #78

No, I am not expecting that at all. Please don't get all huffy when we are exchanging thoughts. Bonobo Mar 2013 #82

I'm perfectly calm here. I'm simply telling you... Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #85

Fine, but sympathy does not enter into the discussion. Bonobo Mar 2013 #89

"Women systemically experience sex without pleasure." Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #207

Yeah, it was the word "systematically" that raised the eyebrows there. nomorenomore08 Apr 2013 #258

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #267

Why do I get the feeling that I know you under a different user name...? Marr Apr 2013 #209

Updated version of my theoretical sock puppet exchange: Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #301

This makes me wonder Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #292

It's a good question, but the answer probably would not be well-received. Bonobo Apr 2013 #293

So perhaps, Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #296

Fascinating idea. Bonobo Apr 2013 #297

Really? Thank you. Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #298

We share an interest then. Bonobo Apr 2013 #299

Accessible? opiate69 Mar 2013 #76

You could go home and watch porn. Or buy a prostitute. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #81

You are making my argument for me. Bonobo Mar 2013 #84

Just because something is not infinite does not mean it is scarce. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #86

Just because something is ubiquitous, does not mean it's accessible. opiate69 Mar 2013 #87

Ubiquity is by definition universal access. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #90

wrong, yet again.. opiate69 Mar 2013 #92

Divine law, God, is universally accessible. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #94

Well.. He may well be, but Scarlet Johansen most definitely is not. opiate69 Mar 2013 #96

But if God is a concept, he's not accessible. caseymoz Mar 2013 #100

Houses are ubiquitous, but not accessible. LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #113

"Even the media does not portray women that way." - You're joking, right? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #125

Nope, but I'm beginning to think you're conducting a Poe experiment LadyHawkAZ Mar 2013 #159

Give an example of something that's ubiquitous caseymoz Mar 2013 #97

Money... Fame... power... prestige... happiness.. love... etc, etc opiate69 Mar 2013 #103

"These things certainly do seem to be ubiquitous" - They certainly do. But they aren't. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #106

None of those are ubiquitous. caseymoz Mar 2013 #109

Then we're working off of different definitions of ubiquity. opiate69 Mar 2013 #111

Wow. You really don't get the way some men feel. Silent3 Mar 2013 #152

Really? Attraction to breasts caseymoz Mar 2013 #65

a fetish isnt always dysfunctional sigmasix Mar 2013 #119

I believe that all fetishes are dysfunctional. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #124

I'm not sure you are using either the word "fetish" OR "dysfunction" correctly. Bonobo Mar 2013 #127

perhaps you can outline a description of what you consider "acceptable" sexual attraction, then. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #196

Ah, guns & pop psychology. Like corn sweetener, it creeps into any discussion. Eleanors38 Mar 2013 #162

where do you get this stuff? Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #220

You kind of got me all worked up with that... Bay Boy Apr 2013 #233

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #195

+1 Marr Apr 2013 #211

I WILL KICK sociopolitimological patriarchiochamalegazimologicafical - spewing DEMONTAGUE ASS! Skittles Apr 2013 #260

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #268

Why should someone else's body be "permanently accessible" to anyone else? whathehell Apr 2013 #254

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #273

Sorry, Ignore... whathehell Apr 2013 #285

If not through the media caseymoz Mar 2013 #44

I knew a few who had. caseymoz Mar 2013 #33

I've seen much younger boys fixate on breasts. My friends kid copped a feel when he was 2 1/2 years bettyellen Mar 2013 #41

Because breasts are our first snacks. Bonobo Mar 2013 #45

well , hide them and almost show you them 1,000X a day on TV. bettyellen Mar 2013 #70

I agree. "Look! No don't look!" Bonobo Mar 2013 #74

But we have no memory of that! caseymoz Mar 2013 #105

I did not contradict myself. I amplified. Bonobo Mar 2013 #108

You've answered with a contradiction. caseymoz Mar 2013 #117

I never got that "snack" and still have the fetish davidpdx Apr 2013 #241

Do you not believe that 2 year olds are subject to socialization? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #56

oh, I think they are totally influenced by the media and peers bettyellen Mar 2013 #62

What is your point? Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #73

just saying I think it often happens before puberty bettyellen Mar 2013 #155

you're fucking serious, here? Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #202

I'm a lesbian Aerows Mar 2013 #170

because the bird family they belong to {Paridae} are cute and entertaining? nt msongs Mar 2013 #3

That's like asking why you're attracted to women. caseymoz Mar 2013 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author pipoman Mar 2013 #27

I've read it's a psychological thing with men. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #5

Might go back to the Quest for Fire days. Whisp Apr 2013 #255

Alerting for use of the word... SirRevolutionary Mar 2013 #6

The Victorian era is responsible for a shift in Western sexuality towards fetishization. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #8

"mammary glands" niyad Mar 2013 #9

Hell to the yes! nt cbrer Mar 2013 #53

brilliant... Blue_Tires Apr 2013 #198

Also, there is nothing cute about your use of the term "gross" to refer to the female body. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #10

She's speaking of sebaceous glands. Scootaloo Mar 2013 #57

Oh, C'MON!!! Marr Apr 2013 #213

Are you a man? Raine1967 Apr 2013 #222

Because people have been told they are forbidden. Cleita Mar 2013 #12

It's just that simple. Bonobo Mar 2013 #16

What about the penis? Nothing is more forbidden leftstreet Mar 2013 #22

It is difficult or even impossible to fetishize symbols of strength. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #25

Penises are not forbidden in the West. Bonobo Mar 2013 #39

Hmm. When I look around me at tall erect buildings and the need to build every Cleita Mar 2013 #154

My surgeon said in a 1990 report that my teats were "unremarkable".... NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #19

my mum was referred to as a "charming old lady" Skittles Mar 2013 #29

I would be flattered! NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #34

There's a difference between attraction and fetished. Apophis Mar 2013 #20

True... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #118

How about using the word breasts? BainsBane Mar 2013 #21

.... 840high Mar 2013 #26

It is part of the process of denying women agency. Gravitycollapse Mar 2013 #30

How does that deny women agency? nt Bonobo Mar 2013 #130

+ 1. Seriously. nt Laffy Kat Mar 2013 #31

I think she has the right to call 'em whatever the hell she wants to call 'em. NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #35

I call my wife's port and starboard Major Nikon Mar 2013 #60

My old man had tats that read "sweet" and "sour". NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #63

+1 Apophis Mar 2013 #64

I insist on calling mine Boobies, Tits, Titties and Girls! Depends on my and their mood. idwiyo Mar 2013 #131

Oh no...That would be much too respectful...They're determined to use the crudest terms possible whathehell Mar 2013 #134

Who is "they"? Union Scribe Mar 2013 #136

"They" are whathehell Mar 2013 #137

Lol, simmer down. Union Scribe Mar 2013 #139

Lol...You simmer down whathehell Mar 2013 #141

"they" are the "people" who are "incapable" of "using" "scare quotes" in "moderation" Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #239

I remember pipoman Mar 2013 #36

All mammals have mammary glands, not tits Major Nikon Mar 2013 #40

Any of you people been outside the US? defacto7 Mar 2013 #42

+1 idwiyo Mar 2013 #132

Many times and in many countries. whathehell Apr 2013 #256

It happens there... defacto7 Apr 2013 #270

False equivalence whathehell Apr 2013 #286

Apparently you haven't heard of "thigh gap" duffyduff Mar 2013 #43

Wow. I didn't know what you were talking about so I looked it up. Evoman Mar 2013 #123

It's not my taste, still... I can think of far dumber things to obsess over. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #215

huh? Evoman Apr 2013 #228

Not unless you're someone else. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #237

This message was self-deleted by its author Orrex Mar 2013 #138

nothing wrong Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #47

actually dogs do not have tits hfojvt Mar 2013 #48

isn't the proper term "teat"? Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #218

That's what I've been thinking this entire thread n/t Fumesucker Apr 2013 #229

To remove sexual passion (aka fetishism) from life cbrer Mar 2013 #49

Tits are fun. Cary Mar 2013 #69

Tits are fun. Big tits are more fun. hay rick Mar 2013 #83

Actually they're all fun. Cary Mar 2013 #120

Nah. Small-uns. randome Mar 2013 #174

Did anybody say TITS? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #72

Judging a society's "openness" by how crudely it speaks about sex and body parts is silly. whathehell Mar 2013 #176

Alas I am not saying it's open or closed nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #177

But, alas, you connected it, originally, to crude sexual terms, so whathehell Apr 2013 #187

Whatever, I stated what it is nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #191

Oh, I see. In your view, I'm out of line "taking command of the language", when we know, of course whathehell Apr 2013 #250

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #79

I basically agree with you. But the part in italics seems a bit excessive/unnecessary. nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #110

To be honest, sometimes I just write random shit for the hell of it. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #121

I heard ya. Sometimes the words just keep flowing. nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #122

Finding someone physically attractive is normal... Deep13 Mar 2013 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #203

well, yeah, but it's within the context of the objectifying... Deep13 Apr 2013 #223

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #224

Think what you want. Deep13 Apr 2013 #235

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #238

But I think it's quite a bit more involved than just individual attraction. nomorenomore08 Apr 2013 #264

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #271

I basically agree with you. And as I said, I don't find invidual attraction problematic at all. nomorenomore08 Apr 2013 #274

I have been a Democrat Go Vols Mar 2013 #91

There's a strange dichotomy in American society RE: certain body parts. nomorenomore08 Mar 2013 #93

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Mar 2013 #95

I can see your dirty pillows!! tabasco Mar 2013 #179

And why is baring tits in the Western world viewed as an amazing political statement. Luminous Animal Mar 2013 #98

My matriarchal family is like, oh, baby is hungry. hunter Mar 2013 #101

LOL! I saw that... MineralMan Mar 2013 #151

There is a more base instinct to adieu Mar 2013 #112

plus they are sexual Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #126

There's a wide range between obsession and phobia, and I'm pretty sure babies are immune to both. nt Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #129

Ehh they're soooo 2012. Fearless Mar 2013 #114

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #115

As one of the apparently tiny minority of men that are not mesmerized by them, I say, good question. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #128

I need to bleach my brain now after reading what you said about human milk. ewwwww idwiyo Mar 2013 #133

Why do you have to use the crudest terms possible? whathehell Mar 2013 #135

As a woman, I find the word "tits" less crude and more mature than the words RiffRandell Mar 2013 #145

Do you find it less crude and more mature than "breasts"? whathehell Mar 2013 #146

The same. RiffRandell Mar 2013 #147

It certainly isn't "the same". whathehell Mar 2013 #169

Oh my, this is what this is about nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #193

Glad you're finally getting it.. whathehell Apr 2013 #242

Whoosh!!!! nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #243

Yeah, I figured that was going to be little hard for you refute, LOL whathehell Apr 2013 #244

And now we go to personal attacks. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #245

And now we go to false accusations of "personal attacks" whathehell Apr 2013 #246

Good bye nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #247

LOL! whathehell Apr 2013 #248

Actually, I don't think anyone is considering that defacto7 Mar 2013 #160

Well, maybe they should consider that whathehell Mar 2013 #168

This OP and the chervilant Apr 2013 #266

Thank you...You are SPOT on, but like you, I have little faith in the DU multitude "getting it". whathehell Apr 2013 #287

Why? Yours is post 135. Just sayin' n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #172

So what? whathehell Mar 2013 #175

Lighten up Francis. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2013 #180

Francis, you lighten up. whathehell Apr 2013 #183

the bombing of the moon was not just a physical act, but a symbolic one. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #204

But the XOMG feels so right! UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #140

Why do you use the crudest term possible?..Trying to be "one of the boys", Lol? whathehell Mar 2013 #142

you asked that like twice snooper2 Mar 2013 #153

why not? datasuspect Mar 2013 #143

Some people fetishize feet. 99Forever Mar 2013 #144

Yah. Men have tits, too, complete with nipples. MineralMan Mar 2013 #148

I am still waiting for the "intelligent design" crowd to explain that one. Nt Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #302

Everything is fetishized. randome Mar 2013 #149

I like tits, tits are nice, all tits are nice. nt bemildred Mar 2013 #150

Message auto-removed april dreamweaver Mar 2013 #156

As one adolescent girl I know exclaimed, LWolf Mar 2013 #157

I'm more of a legs man, Jamaal510 Mar 2013 #158

In the name of inter-species equality, all domesticated animals should be required Coyotl Mar 2013 #161

Agree. polly7 Mar 2013 #167

I feel so much safer now. Coyotl Mar 2013 #178

Oh my...500 for a bathing suit nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #194

"modified sebaceous glands" snagglepuss Mar 2013 #163

Seriously? Well, here's how far back you'd have to go for your answer: WinkyDink Mar 2013 #164

Not enough time breastfeeding felix_numinous Mar 2013 #165

Supposedly they signify a healthy women subconsciously Rex Mar 2013 #166

I actually do think that stuff is true. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #200

So many people believe it that they have books full of studies Rex Apr 2013 #261

They are a secondary sex characteristic Aerows Mar 2013 #171

Based on pipi_k Mar 2013 #173

Because when boys turn 11 or 12 they start bumping into walls when they see them. Zax2me Mar 2013 #181

Better question... ElboRuum Mar 2013 #182

Positively Infantile Preoccupation with Bosoms CBGLuthier Apr 2013 #184

Because they're WONDERFUL. GaYellowDawg Apr 2013 #185

Sex Starts with Instinct Left Turn Only Apr 2013 #186

OK, I'll bite(no double entondre meant, and anyway,... Ferretherder Apr 2013 #188

Most things aren't black-and-white. Sexual attraction especially. nomorenomore08 Apr 2013 #259

Oh well, There it is, anyway. Ferretherder Apr 2013 #275

Who has the jury results for this thread? Capt. Obvious Apr 2013 #189

Mommy issues. Zoeisright Apr 2013 #190

Good point. I'll choose to stop being attracted to big breasts. NT el_bryanto Apr 2013 #192

if they're big enough, you'll have no choice. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #197

I must be more of a nerd than I thought. Because I actually found that funny. nomorenomore08 Apr 2013 #257

Biology. sir pball Apr 2013 #201

Even mountains have tits Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #205

and they should be ashamed of themselves, for enabling "the patriarchy"! Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #206

If you ask me, our bodies were meant to be played with and have fun Taverner Apr 2013 #210

I'm happy with whatever makes other people happy in the context of a consensual adult relationship. stevenleser Apr 2013 #212

Sir Mix A Lot said it best. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #216

Because they are a sexual feature of women AgingAmerican Apr 2013 #214

Because they are awesome!! cbdo2007 Apr 2013 #217

"Kinky is using a feather, perverted is using the whole chicken." Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #225

"if you think about it" a lot of things humans do are "gross" Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #219

Because we were all once babies marshall Apr 2013 #221

Why do DUers insist on writing about "tits"? JNelson6563 Apr 2013 #226

I think DU has become a 'safe zone' for 'naughty' words. randome Apr 2013 #231

It's become a Locker Room whathehell Apr 2013 #252

I want to know why cats are so fetishized. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #227

Cuz cats are hot zappaman Apr 2013 #230

I'll admit it, I'm a cataholic. Can't get enough of the stuff. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #263

I like cats, but cat pictures are way funnier than most actual cats. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #269

Why? Occulus Apr 2013 #232

no idea d_b Apr 2013 #234

I imagine it's due to America's vast preponderance of the Man-Child LanternWaste Apr 2013 #236

Or it could be due to people Bonobo Apr 2013 #240

Hey, mind if I take a second of your time? Preponderance is used correctly in their sentence. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #251

No, not really. Bonobo Apr 2013 #262

You are actually very right. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #265

I refuse to wear a bra in my house unless we have company over. liberal_at_heart Apr 2013 #249

Well I have to say I have cow tits. I'd love to give them away. I see no advantage to having them. southernyankeebelle Apr 2013 #253

Why do some women think men seeing breasts takes something away from them? nt Bonobo Apr 2013 #272

Why do so many men view a woman's breasts as public property that they have a "right" to see? whathehell Apr 2013 #290

I've always been an ass man myself. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #276

physical attraction is a part of what brings people together. There is no denying it. liberal_at_heart Apr 2013 #282

I think I saw your car the other day. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #284

because they are awesome arely staircase Apr 2013 #277

Well, there is that. Deep13 Apr 2013 #280

I have only one personal negative stereotype of women arely staircase Apr 2013 #281

Also, they're always cold. (temperature, not personalities) Deep13 Apr 2013 #283

Guilty as charged. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #295

This works quaker bill Apr 2013 #304

I think that they are less fetishized than they are fetish. Orsino Apr 2013 #288

Everything is fetishized by somebody. dawg Apr 2013 #291

I actually think "fetishized" is another sort of nonsense term. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #300

I think it's just because they're a secondary sex characteristic n/t gollygee Apr 2013 #305