General Discussion

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)

406. Again you continue to only read what you want to

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 07:44 AM

Apr 2013

You never said "some" Somali women wear hijabs in MN. Please retread your own post.

I did not respond to your post because of your mention of hijabs...it was your mention of Minnesota. You seemed to have a rosy view of what life is like here in Minnesota... That women here are magically free of oppression... I wanted to correct that.

I do not have a skewed view of women because I work with domestic violence...and many women I know who have been battered are also ..to use your word...professionals. I have served on committees with Somali women to address issues in their communities...but maybe that is still not good enough for you.

You have a narrow view of the women in this state and in this country. Because you know a few Muslim women you project your experience to all. I have repeatedly...which you have ignored from my first response...stated that not all women here are lucky to have the freedom you have observed.

I did not address your comment about more women veiling here than in Somali because that really was a non sequitur.

I am not angry...just frustrated at your continued blindness to the reality of oppression...it does exist in Minnesota. I have conceded your point that some have freedom yet you refuse to see that some don't.

I know it may seem tedious when someone expresses a different viewpoint than yours so I can see why you no longer wish to discuss this issue.

I have no idea where you get the idea that I see Muslim women as "other" ...that is such a disgusting accusation but I guess you have nothing conducive to say so you attack.

You speak from such a position of privilege that you cannot see anything that doesn't fit your worldview. I find that sad because you are missing out on opportunities to help women from all backgrounds.

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I do not need... Eurocentric feminists to dictate to me what I wear or shouldn't wear. [View all] Luminous Animal Apr 2013 OP

Interesting. ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #1

My hijab, my choice & my right Fuck FEMEN Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #2

I don't know why, but.... Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #4

+infinity. You win this thread. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #150

+1 nt Zorra Apr 2013 #156

You don't know why? Then why say it? Scootaloo Apr 2013 #164

LOL. I dont even think you buy what you just wrote. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #168

I wouldn't have typed it otherwise. Scootaloo Apr 2013 #176

You think I regard her as inferior? Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #172

I think that person couldnt come up with a factual argument, so they made up ad hominem stuff about stevenleser Apr 2013 #178

I'm still shaking my head over here Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #187

You said rack. TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #380

So this woman is under the rule of a misogynistic warlord in Afghanistan? Scootaloo Apr 2013 #183

+1. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #180

The poster implied that I want to see her breasts Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #182

I didn't read it that way. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #186

I did actually... Scootaloo Apr 2013 #339

i meant i didn't read either ofyour posts that way. i didn't read yours as being directed to cd's HiPointDem Apr 2013 #361

What a load of tripe. EOTE Apr 2013 #268

Really? Read the message again. Scootaloo Apr 2013 #309

Blatant lie? Like you claiming I said the anti-FEMEN group is telling anyone how to dress? EOTE Apr 2013 #317

No, Femen just derides Muslim women who choose to wear a hijab Scootaloo Apr 2013 #324

You're totally right. All muslim cultures are totally friendly of women. EOTE Apr 2013 #326

I think you're right Scootaloo Apr 2013 #329

You suggested all of those things. EOTE Apr 2013 #330

You're doing it again. Scootaloo Apr 2013 #336

And that sums up everything right there: The Straight Story Apr 2013 #346

Excellent subthread Scootaloo! Really hardcore. Brava! Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #369

Exactly EOTE .That person and their supporters dont care if Tunisia goes to Sharia stevenleser Apr 2013 #412

That pretty much sums it up. EOTE Apr 2013 #448

+1 Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #283

You got it. nt msanthrope Apr 2013 #427

FEMEN isn't forcing you to do anything. Deep13 Apr 2013 #381

Is FEMEN pressuring them to go topless? randome Apr 2013 #3

FEMEN believes that the hijab=opressions. They march in Muslim neighborhoods Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #10

The choice to wear hijab is one thing. Flogged or stoned to death for showing breasts is another Matariki Apr 2013 #13

are Muslim Women in France, UK , Spain flogged or stoned to death for showing breasts ? JI7 Apr 2013 #18

And western feminists marching through their neighborhoods naked is addressing Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #19

'Exhorting' them is not the same as 'pressuring' them. randome Apr 2013 #32

So you think FEMEN is protesting for the right to choose to go topless? Squinch Apr 2013 #40

I don't see them 'demanding' women go topless. randome Apr 2013 #46

So their goal is to spread the message that they don't need to be controlled by men? Squinch Apr 2013 #55

That's my take on it. randome Apr 2013 #57

I am curious about what others think FEMEN's message is, and what their goal is. Squinch Apr 2013 #59

When it comes to women's rights, the same confusion exists... randome Apr 2013 #70

Or it could be that their message simply isn't clear. Squinch Apr 2013 #71

They have more than one message LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #140

freedom for women for what ? there are "pro women" groups in the US and their focus JI7 Apr 2013 #144

There are "pro-woman" groups that claim all kinds of things. LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #153

Freedom to choose "what", ie, freedom of total self determination. nt Zorra Apr 2013 #154

even whatever gun you want ? JI7 Apr 2013 #155

Is freedom of total self determination possible? Does anyone on earth have that? Squinch Apr 2013 #352

it's his best guess and he's sticking with it! bettyellen Apr 2013 #78

Am I crazy in thinking this is precisely their goal in this? To evince this kind of response? Squinch Apr 2013 #82

well, the article said they are aware they get faux interest and think it;'s still worthwhile. bettyellen Apr 2013 #89

Yes. The dynamics of this are fascinating, but the fuzzy scapegoating Squinch Apr 2013 #95

This might help you work it out.... Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #165

Because this... Matariki Apr 2013 #35

what they do is like protesting at a Christian CHurch in the UK , fRance etc JI7 Apr 2013 #42

Is that what you said when people did local protests against Apartheid? Matariki Apr 2013 #53

they are protesting against Muslims in the West , they are calling on those muslim women JI7 Apr 2013 #62

those were focused protests with calls for specific policy changes.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #84

In the end, they don't need ANY message that you or I approve of. randome Apr 2013 #87

so, protesters don't need to educate or empower anyone for change these days? Interesting dodge. bettyellen Apr 2013 #91

I would say the reaction to being topless IS the message, in this case. randome Apr 2013 #102

I have to say though, that if a protest is serious, Squinch Apr 2013 #105

Being vaunted simply for being topless is equally its own message. Squinch Apr 2013 #98

The interpretation of the message is always up to the observer. randome Apr 2013 #103

I do observe, however, that the women in the African protests left absolutely no doubt Squinch Apr 2013 #114

Whether this particular group of women are conducting their protest 'correctly'... randome Apr 2013 #130

Oh, but then we're right back to the idea that it's about giving women the choice to go topless. Squinch Apr 2013 #132

so, it;s more of an art piece then, than a protest, because actvists have actionable goals and no bettyellen Apr 2013 #117

Why do you feel the need to parse every possible interpretation? randome Apr 2013 #119

But that's exactly the point. The lack of clear message makes us have to conclude: In the end, who Squinch Apr 2013 #129

Huh? If someone has a protest and no one knows or cares why- it;s a good thing? bettyellen Apr 2013 #146

that's art, not politics. and vapid performance art is exactly what most of femen reminds me of. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #188

You mean something like Banksy? Solders Painting Peace, One Nation under CCTV, etc.? idwiyo Apr 2013 #410

yes, i mean people like the fraud 'banksy'. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #447

What you said cliffordu Apr 2013 #332

Well, Femen disagrees with you. They say that their boobs are billboards Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #374

No, that is a logic fail. It is both. Boobs are their billboards and part of the message. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #414

who exactly issued this 'fatwa' and under what authority? HiPointDem Apr 2013 #185

Adel Almi. A Salafist of course riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #320

under what authority? and where does that say 'fatwa' as opposed to his opinion? HiPointDem Apr 2013 #321

Islam has no central authority. As we saw with the fatwa against Salman Rushdie riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #333

islam has lots of 'central authorities'. rushdie's fatwa was issued by the religious and civil head HiPointDem Apr 2013 #362

Yeah, fine. So Amina should just head out to the local Tunisia Starbucks riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #366

Actually, Tunisia is not quickly lurching toward any such thing. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #376

Only YESTERDAY the Tunisia Assembly's tie was broken by Ettouir's vote riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #382

No, Tunisia is not on the precipice of becoming an Sharia state and nothihng in your link Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #384

it's not 'nothing' and i didn't say it was. it's not a 'fatwa' though, if by 'fatwa' you mean an HiPointDem Apr 2013 #386

That the Arab Spring revolutions have turned into an Arab Chill via Islamist riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #415

Are you saying that all muslim women who live in muslim neighbourhoods want idwiyo Apr 2013 #217

And some FEMEN members are Muslims themselves. Don't they have the right to their views? pnwmom Apr 2013 #313

they explicitly target Islam and modesty as political foes BainsBane Apr 2013 #27

They say "down with Islam", really? Matariki Apr 2013 #54

They held signs BainsBane Apr 2013 #58

that's a 'page not found' link Matariki Apr 2013 #60

wrong link BainsBane Apr 2013 #63

Thanks for the link Matariki Apr 2013 #74

I noticed that BainsBane Apr 2013 #106

I agree with that Matariki Apr 2013 #210

Yes, and I Very much want her to be safe BainsBane Apr 2013 #212

Here is an image BainsBane Apr 2013 #205

I'd contend saying the words of any prophet are above criticism is an assault on common sense. Kurska Apr 2013 #211

They don't know enough about Islam to attack the words of the prophet BainsBane Apr 2013 #218

How bout these words of the prophet Kurska Apr 2013 #220

Should we pull out some bible quotes too? BainsBane Apr 2013 #223

I'm rather offended that you seem to associate being Christian with being American. Kurska Apr 2013 #225

I don't associate Christian with being American BainsBane Apr 2013 #232

I'm not endorsing any of these positions, but just trying to understand your logic here. Kurska Apr 2013 #238

Okay BainsBane Apr 2013 #242

Well, you didn't address what I said at all. Kurska Apr 2013 #265

You asked what my point was BainsBane Apr 2013 #278

I understand you fine, I however think you are holding two incredibly double standards here. Kurska Apr 2013 #338

At your request BainsBane Apr 2013 #358

I'm disagreeing with your basic premise from the first line. Kurska Apr 2013 #375

the Muslim world isn't America BainsBane Apr 2013 #392

Well first off, any society that wouldn't freely let someone change their religion is pretty wrong. Kurska Apr 2013 #393

How about societies that don't let people change their race and ethnicity? BainsBane Apr 2013 #402

Being able to change religions is the result of a breakdown of community and family? Are you real? Kurska Apr 2013 #425

I hate calling a way of thinking "anti-American", but I'd say that clearly applies in this case ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #435

Last statement is objectively false. Look at this map ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #388

tell me, with your x ray eyes BainsBane Apr 2013 #395

You don't need "x ray eyes", the precincts voting yes are pretty obvious. ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #417

You think Halal markets are in 5 precincts in this town? BainsBane Apr 2013 #419

Its "halal". Pretty big blunder if you really do see them everywhere nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #421

Posting via iPad BainsBane Apr 2013 #422

I live about three blocks south of a halal market, and I'm in a white mostly hipster neighborhood ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #433

I was simply recounting my experience canvassing BainsBane Apr 2013 #437

I'm going to trust the actual results over anecdotal evidence ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #439

Whittier has changed a lot since I lived there BainsBane Apr 2013 #440

Yes I know, it's a gradual shift of people from Uptown because the rent is cheaper ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #441

I specified St. Paul BainsBane Apr 2013 #443

One of my best friends is from St. Paul and has a very Irish name ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #444

from the map you provided earlier BainsBane Apr 2013 #445

The whole city voted against, but what does that prove? St. Paul is not all Catholic ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #446

It doesn't even include the Arab/ Somali neighborhoods BainsBane Apr 2013 #420

None of those areas are majority Muslim ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #434

So what is your general conclusion from that? BainsBane Apr 2013 #436

The precincts are all clustered in the same area ButterflyBlood Apr 2013 #438

yeah, if only they have read the Quoan, they would have known that accoring to Hadith idwiyo Apr 2013 #246

Wait what? Marrah_G Apr 2013 #271

Yeah, see, I don't think Femen's feminist detractors really stop to listen to themselves. stevenleser Apr 2013 #273

Criticizing their holy book BainsBane Apr 2013 #281

actually what I find funny is your view on this Marrah_G Apr 2013 #286

Absurd that human beings deserve respect BainsBane Apr 2013 #359

You (generic) have a right to beleive, but there is no right to demand respect for your belief. idwiyo Apr 2013 #411

Don't start talking shit on Dianetics! JVS Apr 2013 #423

You mean I should respect it and stuff? :) Of course I have greatest respect for anyone idwiyo Apr 2013 #424

first reference I saw BainsBane Apr 2013 #68

You were told this blogger is transphobic bigot but you just repost the link anyway? idwiyo Apr 2013 #249

yes, because my singular goal in life BainsBane Apr 2013 #331

Do you think the Koran is friendly to women? You never responded to this video.. snooper2 Apr 2013 #99

brilliant video, thank you for posting it. idwiyo Apr 2013 #251

Christina Rad rocks. There is no response to this. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #258

Some do, but not all. n/t pnwmom Apr 2013 #315

Yes they do. They also target various Christian denominations. stevenleser Apr 2013 #100

But the idea of destroying religion is absud BainsBane Apr 2013 #110

I think Femen would be just as happy with a world where religions dont contribute to the harming stevenleser Apr 2013 #116

Then your interpretation is that FEMEN wants world religions to eradicate their bias toward women? Squinch Apr 2013 #118

Either that or they want them to go away altogether, yes. That would be one of Femen's goals. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #120

So possibly the elimination of religion? Squinch Apr 2013 #124

Yes. One or the other. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #128

but you failed to see this same dynamic RainDog Apr 2013 #169

no, I didnt. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #171

What new ideas? BainsBane Apr 2013 #204

FEMEN comes from a region with a tradition of strident anti-clericalism JVS Apr 2013 #248

As a result of my frequent appearance on RT, I have a lot of media friends stevenleser Apr 2013 #272

In what sense is ukraine a region with a 'tradition of strident anti-clericism'? HiPointDem Apr 2013 #399

Former Soviet block BainsBane Apr 2013 #403

more or less banning religious display from above isn't grassroots anti-clericism. it's an HiPointDem Apr 2013 #404

It's a long standing cultural understanding of BainsBane Apr 2013 #405

Have you been elected a spokesperson for Muslims everywhere? idwiyo Apr 2013 #408

Where? Everywhere? It's all identical in the entirety of BainsBane Apr 2013 #243

Good for them - respect for Islam (as opposed to for Muslims) is a bad thing. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #239

Agreed. I support these women LittleBlue Apr 2013 #277

Hmmm. It's awful quiet in here. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #5

Not sure what to make of "my modesty is my liberation" whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #15

Ready to edit yet? DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #293

Who is dictating? LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #6

If I may... Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #7

How do you know that all the women in the pics don't have that option? Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #12

Is there a muslim ruled country that grants women that option? Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #75

Do you too, then, think that FEMEN is protesting for the right to choose to go topless? Squinch Apr 2013 #43

No, not at all. Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #66

Then you are thinking that FEMEN is trying to break down the outmoded cultural foundation Squinch Apr 2013 #67

Yes, it makes sense to conclude that Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #77

Shankapotomus... Bonobo Apr 2013 #83

Thanks, Bonobo. Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #93

Good luck. It will not be easy for you to do so. Bonobo Apr 2013 #101

Are you opposed to the FEMEN group? DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #8

Stockholm Syndrome: Zorra Apr 2013 #9

You cannot be serious? BainsBane Apr 2013 #23

Damn skippy, I'm as serious as a heart attack. Zorra Apr 2013 #108

Well, you know very little BainsBane Apr 2013 #208

Oh, bullshit. Don't you dare try to conflate me with neocons and military actions, Zorra Apr 2013 #250

My point is this entire debate is framed by Islamophobia BainsBane Apr 2013 #335

THANK YOU for saying this. Raine1967 Apr 2013 #270

I'm inclined to agree with that assessment. stevenleser Apr 2013 #123

You got the point. Thank you. nt Zorra Apr 2013 #147

Stockholm syndrome is right! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #196

Yep, if this was a "pro-life" post with similar messages... joshcryer Apr 2013 #202

The irony is, if it were these women being discussed LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #209

This is a small group BainsBane Apr 2013 #226

If there were 2 billion FLDS LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #235

There aren't. The equivalent would be a condemnation of all of Western BainsBane Apr 2013 #240

On the subject of Tunisia and abortion: muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #256

Sounds like the United States. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #372

Which is why protests about it are justified (nt) muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #394

Sounds a lot like the US doesn't it? BainsBane Apr 2013 #391

I know there aren't LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #373

a few reasons BainsBane Apr 2013 #398

I agree that we have problems here that need solving LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #426

the problem is BainsBane Apr 2013 #429

I didn't say they all occurred everywhere LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #430

How did you garner that from Amina's protest? BainsBane Apr 2013 #431

as just one example BainsBane Apr 2013 #432

a better comparison would be to say they represent all American women or all those who have JI7 Apr 2013 #252

there were actually a few supporters here- when they raided the compound in TX bettyellen Apr 2013 #280

"I was hit with a belt and I turned out OK" -- Sean Hannity, defending Rutgers BB coach Mike Rice. Manifestor_of_Light Apr 2013 #289

No one is telling them to go topless. kiva Apr 2013 #11

that's because they go to Muslim areas in Brit and other western places and call on JI7 Apr 2013 #16

And they can still wear what they want. kiva Apr 2013 #29

Uh, Femen complains about what Muslim Women in the West Wear JI7 Apr 2013 #34

They absolutly do. kiva Apr 2013 #112

You mean inviting others to join them equals to forcing them to go naked? Also, can you provide some idwiyo Apr 2013 #224

Protest and a counter-protest. tammywammy Apr 2013 #14

except the Muslim women aren't demanding other women cover themselves up JI7 Apr 2013 #17

No, they're just helping prop up a culture that does that. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #125

how ? ifyou look at the pics some women wear no head covering JI7 Apr 2013 #139

And their message is "We love the forced female dress-code of male interpreters of our religion... stevenleser Apr 2013 #143

none of the women in the OP are fully covered, some have no covering JI7 Apr 2013 #145

You keep arguing against something I never said. stevenleser Apr 2013 #148

you said they prop up a culture that demands women cover up JI7 Apr 2013 #151

Most of them are wearing headscarves. I never said they were required to wear burkas. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #152

but so what ? do you think a woman who wears a headscarf is being oppressed and does so because JI7 Apr 2013 #158

Yes, ultimately, that is what it is. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #167

Many Muslim women who live in the west continue to wear the hijab Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #162

I know. I've read about them. I still regard it as Zorra suggested. Something akin to Stockholm stevenleser Apr 2013 #166

And that is the ignorance. What makes you think they accept the loss of freedom? Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #173

What makes you think they dont accept their loss of freedom? stevenleser Apr 2013 #175

Because I spent 10 hours reading and communicating with many Muslim women today... Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #181

I've spent a lot more than 10 hours. I've actually spent long visits to Muslim countries. stevenleser Apr 2013 #184

these women are mostly from europe JI7 Apr 2013 #189

And yet you seem to know nothing about Muslim feminists or the strategies and Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #195

Oh I've read all about them. They remind me of GOProud and Log Cabin Republicans. stevenleser Apr 2013 #198

FEMEN demands other women go naked? Where did you get that one from? idwiyo Apr 2013 #222

So now it is Femen oppressing women The Straight Story Apr 2013 #20

You really don't help ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #22

Apparently, Muslim women are too brainwashed to articulate their own needs Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #26

I guess not only 'first world' Women ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #33

Funny about that... LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #76

Islam is not a society. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #86

"Culture" suit you better? LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #88

Funny how she goes all "word-police" on you.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #126

Compliance is protest! LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #134

White women have something called 'privilege' ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #214

Hell no WD ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #259

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #215

Heh. ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #262

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #269

Perfect. polly7 Apr 2013 #294

Holy sh*t LittleBlue Apr 2013 #325

Some of them are brainwashed. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #274

Well now, that is the heart of all this isn't it The Straight Story Apr 2013 #28

Islam is a Abrahamic religion ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #61

Well, allow me to explain :) The Straight Story Apr 2013 #85

Well I'm not calling you a sexist pig ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #97

What it boils down to: The Straight Story Apr 2013 #121

does somebody miss meta? Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #254

I wasn't a Meta groupie ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #260

Ok, I agree with that ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #261

No, tech support The Straight Story Apr 2013 #263

considering the shit you post , you have problems with this ? JI7 Apr 2013 #24

I don't have a problem with any of it either way The Straight Story Apr 2013 #31

at least address the issue, i notice you ignored your own thread on African Women JI7 Apr 2013 #36

I knew well what it said The Straight Story Apr 2013 #56

Yes, they did say Femen is oppressing women. Bonobo Apr 2013 #44

"patriachal states OR eurocentrist feminists" JI7 Apr 2013 #50

When I went to The One Billion Rising protest ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #21

Somali women here in MN are also politically engaged. BainsBane Apr 2013 #25

Ya, but the problem is that in many muslim countries Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #39

what has that got to do with Muslims in the West, as the OP shows many of them are not covered up JI7 Apr 2013 #47

Ya, but other muslim countries require women to be veiled Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #69

but this protest was based on what they said is happening in Tunisia JI7 Apr 2013 #73

I'm not really focused on the Tunisia thing or even Femen Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #80

Well, for the record, the debate in Tunisia is whether to go to Sharia law. That's what got Amina stevenleser Apr 2013 #200

This is true. ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #48

I understand BainsBane Apr 2013 #51

I didn't say all Muslim countries require women to veil Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #72

You make it sound as if all Muslim women here in MN CHOOSE to wear a hijab nadine_mn Apr 2013 #253

No, I do not make it sound like all women choose to wear a hijab BainsBane Apr 2013 #279

Sigh... you always miss the point nadine_mn Apr 2013 #285

I agree with that general point BainsBane Apr 2013 #288

Oh sweet mother - does it hurt to deliberately twist things? nadine_mn Apr 2013 #290

that was the post you chose to respond to BainsBane Apr 2013 #389

Again you continue to only read what you want to nadine_mn Apr 2013 #406

It's a losing battle to try to dictate to women what they must wear Warpy Apr 2013 #30

France actually Does Ban full covering , so there is some dictating in that way which i have no JI7 Apr 2013 #37

No FeMEn are independent ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #45

No kidding, and that's white, upper middle class feminists Warpy Apr 2013 #49

OT ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #64

Ha! I haven't read it either Warpy Apr 2013 #96

Oh that sucks. ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #104

Even when criticizing other women, they use the term "patriarch". Bonobo Apr 2013 #38

Good for them. I love this. n/t MadrasT Apr 2013 #41

They need a better strawman and some logic... MellowDem Apr 2013 #52

Yes seriously. I have a Catholic heritage... many generations. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #79

If you are a Muslim woman... MellowDem Apr 2013 #92

These women are recognizable and public ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #81

Muslim women are by their own beliefs... MellowDem Apr 2013 #94

There are many feminist Muslim women and organizations. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #109

Yes... MellowDem Apr 2013 #113

Well said. nt Zorra Apr 2013 #163

You don't know a thing about Muslim women SpartanDem Apr 2013 #142

Then they're intellectually dishonest... MellowDem Apr 2013 #149

for many people religion is more like culture, they don't believe everything literally JI7 Apr 2013 #159

Looking at religion like culture is not a good thing... MellowDem Apr 2013 #160

i'm Atheist and celebrate christmas by getting a tree and gifts for others JI7 Apr 2013 #161

Xmas trees are the best thing ever! I could not throw that baby out with the bath water either. bettyellen Apr 2013 #170

Not sure where you got that from my post... MellowDem Apr 2013 #267

the Femen Protests kind of Remind me of the Anti Mosque Protests in the United States JI7 Apr 2013 #65

Forgive me I'm a guy and I try to support feminists as much as possible Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #107

Maybe you're overthinking. randome Apr 2013 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #115

I commend you for that! randome Apr 2013 #122

They readily admit that they go topless to get the attention of the media. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #136

. Squinch Apr 2013 #138

Which is generally part of the purpose of any protest. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #179

But they'll let the men in their lives to dictate what they wear? Apophis Apr 2013 #127

Exactly. WTF indeed. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #131

So it would seem. Which is their choice, in a way. randome Apr 2013 #133

which one is letting the man in her life dictate what she wears ? JI7 Apr 2013 #137

Um, they're Islamic women. Apophis Apr 2013 #192

not all Muslims are the same, i know many muslim women who dress how they want JI7 Apr 2013 #194

Good to see that ... 99Forever Apr 2013 #135

Last pic says it all IMO lunasun Apr 2013 #141

Awesome. Time for reflection or spontaneous combustion? Let me guess... Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #157

Well, Amina, Femen, and topless protests have all proven to be successful. Zorra Apr 2013 #174

Its simple isnt it? Yet we have folks in this thread arguing the message is confused. It isnt. stevenleser Apr 2013 #177

Yes. The message is simple, and crystal clear. Zorra Apr 2013 #213

exactly RainDog Apr 2013 #197

Spot on. I admit that this thread has me very conflicted Number23 Apr 2013 #219

+1 Bravo! idwiyo Apr 2013 #230

Do you think the people supporting FEMEN did not understand before the protests that women in Squinch Apr 2013 #354

WHEEE! WOMEN FOR SELF-OPPRESSION!!! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #190

Meh. So much drama over breasts. Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #191

topless or hijab ? many women don't do either JI7 Apr 2013 #199

That's where I'm at, too. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #207

Excellent! Le Taz Hot Apr 2013 #193

This Thread shows why so many Americans easily supported the War in Iraq JI7 Apr 2013 #201

Your spin just doesn't resonate RainDog Apr 2013 #203

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #216

no, because people are fucking stupid and thought Saddam had something to do with islamic JI7 Apr 2013 #231

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #247

Americans supported Iraq war because they wanted to look at boobies and Iraq didnt allow nekkidnees? idwiyo Apr 2013 #233

no, because people were fucking stupid and thought Saddam had something to do with Islamic JI7 Apr 2013 #234

It was a joke, relax. Though still not sure why you are so bothered by FEMEN and their boobies. idwiyo Apr 2013 #237

I find what Islam does to women and gays in the middle east far more offensive than anything Kurska Apr 2013 #206

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #221

Righteous indignation at the bare human body makes for strange bedfellows doesn't it? n/t Kurska Apr 2013 #227

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #229

"Islam" doesn't. Deep13 Apr 2013 #236

Yes it does. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #241

Yes and no. Deep13 Apr 2013 #284

Yeah, no shit. But let's pretend none of that is happening. Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #345

It is a criminal offense for a Saudi woman to show her face in public... Deep13 Apr 2013 #228

and yet, the brave women of femen have yet to take on the saudis. they prefer less dangerous HiPointDem Apr 2013 #245

They're not willing to be martyrs. Deep13 Apr 2013 #287

but wait, i thought they were at risk of being arrested. imprisoned & stoned? so i'm constantly HiPointDem Apr 2013 #295

Depends where they are. Deep13 Apr 2013 #297

have you seen any interviews with the leader? she's a ninny. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #298

ad hominem? Deep13 Apr 2013 #299

no, she's just a ninny. or plays one on tv. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #310

Also there is a class distinction at work here. Deep13 Apr 2013 #302

FEMEN will have a slam dunk in this exchange when the next honor killing in Europe happens. JVS Apr 2013 #244

How so? Squinch Apr 2013 #356

Good for them, and good for Femen. HappyMe Apr 2013 #255

You Miss the Whole Point itcfish Apr 2013 #257

It's even more than that. This all started because Tunisia is considering going back to Sharia... stevenleser Apr 2013 #275

I have question for the women in the pictures Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #264

Sure, and there are women who stand outside abortion clinics with signs that read.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #266

It's "my choice" to wear oppressive clothing because I've been told Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #276

Some of the women in these photos . . . Brigid Apr 2013 #282

Totally bookmarking this awesome thread. Prism Apr 2013 #291

The full implications of the hypocrisy you point out are mind-boggling stevenleser Apr 2013 #300

I think it's a simple equation. Prism Apr 2013 #305

I think you boiled it down to the essentials. randome Apr 2013 #306

You just destroyed LittleBlue Apr 2013 #344

+ 100 Prism, you nailed it. Bonobo Apr 2013 #396

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #407

Way to miss the point. These women don't want to be nannied by neocolonial feminists. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #301

How do you think these other groups got the word out? randome Apr 2013 #304

They are working in their own communities in their own cultural context. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #316

And they are failing. Sharia is a serious possibility for Tunisia. They can claim to be feminists stevenleser Apr 2013 #318

So only community protests are 'allowed', then. randome Apr 2013 #322

I never said that. I said that there are already Muslim femnists active in their communities... Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #327

Amina is a Muslim woman working in her own cultural context in her own country riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #340

Have I said anything about Amina in this thread? No I haven't. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #347

Wait, what??!! Of course they're reacting to yesterday's action! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #368

Um no. They are using yesterdays action as a springboard for their own. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #371

NO! Most of the pics on that site are protesting FEMEN. Amina IS FEMEN. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #377

You are making assumptions not in evidence. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #383

The women you've linked to in your OP absolutely don't support FEMEN riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #385

They don't want to talk about Amina or the deadly serious reason she did what she did. stevenleser Apr 2013 #349

And yet when it comes to catholics you state: The Straight Story Apr 2013 #308

You have this exactly backwards Prism Apr 2013 #319

Really. You do realize that the reason why they decided to go full frontal was to get the attention Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #323

And to that I say, so what? Prism Apr 2013 #337

They are also coming from a Western imperialist perspective BainsBane Apr 2013 #400

This thread is entirely revealing RainDog Apr 2013 #303

Ah Prism, if nobody's told you they loved you today, here you go Catherina Apr 2013 #334

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #341

+1. I almost didn't post on this thread at all. Same people, same scolding nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #342

Exactly. n/t LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #365

Right on. redgreenandblue Apr 2013 #292

I don't see any group lecturing another. randome Apr 2013 #296

How extraordinarily patronizing and without realizing it, you are emphasizing these women's point. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #307

No one is saying they HAVE to embrace FEMEN. randome Apr 2013 #311

As I have pointed out before, Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #348

Damn, they are not buying "menz & titties"... YAY! FEMEN makes wemmenz unsafe with tiities!!! idwiyo Apr 2013 #409

It's always good to see women do good activism, whether I believe in the message or not. Nika Apr 2013 #312

What was the point of the Lynne Ali photo? alp227 Apr 2013 #353

Surrender RainDog Apr 2013 #363

I went to the Face book site and found it interesting. Nika Apr 2013 #370

I don't know if anyone is dictating what they should wear. Cleita Apr 2013 #314

Really, no one is dictating what women should wear? Because that is EXACTLY what many Islamists do. Quantess Apr 2013 #350

This is in the so-called free world isn't it? Cleita Apr 2013 #351

I get what you are saying, but, the intent is to reach worldwide audiences. Quantess Apr 2013 #355

In my day they did. They wouldn't let you into church if you weren't wearing a hat Cleita Apr 2013 #357

It's very simple - if you are a liberal, you support these women closeupready Apr 2013 #328

No, it isn't "very simple". Quantess Apr 2013 #343

Okay, I can agree that it's not a simple issue. closeupready Apr 2013 #387

Half right, half wrong. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #416

Nope. You're so in love with your logical pretzel-ification, closeupready Apr 2013 #418

I think a lot of Western feminists don't even realize how condescending they are at times. TimberValley Apr 2013 #360

except Amina is Tunisian RainDog Apr 2013 #364

And predictably there is crickets to your response. They are intent on ignoring Amina. stevenleser Apr 2013 #413

Very eye opening thread. Rex Apr 2013 #442

+1,000,000 HappyMe Apr 2013 #449

Yep. Femen fan's response to Muslim women included these: Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #367

Many African-American feminists feel marginalized by white American feminists. kwassa Apr 2013 #379

They're not. Your home societies are. Deep13 Apr 2013 #378

I wonder which side these feminists would side with? opiate69 Apr 2013 #390

FOR THOSE STILL READING THIS... Bonobo Apr 2013 #397

You aren't paying attention BainsBane Apr 2013 #401

right here. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #428