General Discussion

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)

33. I get this, but

Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:49 PM

Apr 2013

when "covered-but-liberated" Muslim women say it is their choice what they wear -- well, yeah, in some sense. But they have a culture/religion telling them that they need to cover their sinful hair and ankles so they won't provoke the poor defenseless menfolk with their strumpetry. I feel the same way about U.S. Christian women who wear long skirts and long hair at all times -- it's a dress code pushed by an oppressive, patriarchal culture. They can pretend covering up is their choice, but really, they have a choice between conforming and buying in to the norm ultimately pushed by repressive men or suffering the consequences of bucking their own culture -- not an easy thing to do if you do not wish to be alienated from the people you know best.

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Muslim Women Shockingly Not Grateful for Topless European Ladies Trying To Save Them [View all] redqueen Apr 2013 OP

This is the first time I agree with you about something. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #1

That was necessary. redqueen Apr 2013 #2

meh Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #3

Agree! I gotten to the point where, if it's from a certain group, it goes to trash, this is really Katashi_itto Apr 2013 #226

Relax. Keep your shirt on. randome Apr 2013 #4

You do know they call themselves 'sextremist', right? redqueen Apr 2013 #5

I'm sure there IS more to them than nudity. randome Apr 2013 #8

"Judging the relevance of a protest by comments on an Internet site?" opiate69 Apr 2013 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #121

Refresh my memory.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #124

Concerned Women For America not thrilled with American Feminists Prism Apr 2013 #6

This isn't about Christianity, or Islam... it's about basic human decency. redqueen Apr 2013 #9

Conservative women use the same verbiage against liberal feminists Prism Apr 2013 #54

How does calling them "stupid muslim women" help? sufrommich Apr 2013 #71

Do you think attributing comments by anonymous internet posters to Femen makes your point? stevenleser Apr 2013 #122

Did you read the rest of my post? sufrommich Apr 2013 #128

Why bother, when your thesis statement was so astoundingly intellectually dishonest? opiate69 Apr 2013 #136

It doesn't help I suppose maddezmom Apr 2013 #134

Great point, maddezmom ... though I've yet to actually see a STFU said to anyone here. nt. polly7 Apr 2013 #139

Me neither but it doesn't stop people from saying it maddezmom Apr 2013 #141

+1 onpatrol98 Apr 2013 #227

"anti-religious zealots"? alp227 Apr 2013 #146

Amina is a Muslim woman working in her own cultural context in her own country riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #10

Tunisia is a Muslim country? redqueen Apr 2013 #11

Typical disingenuous parsing bullshit.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #12

So then you agree with fundies that America is a Christian nation, right? redqueen Apr 2013 #14

See the edit in my previous. opiate69 Apr 2013 #15

See the history. redqueen Apr 2013 #19

Yes.. because your "bloggers" are more accurate than Tunisia's actual constitution... opiate69 Apr 2013 #21

How dare you to imply someone should actually read the source! The blogger somewhere idwiyo Apr 2013 #221

Bad ME!!! opiate69 Apr 2013 #231

Amina took her action in direct response to the growing Islamist threat riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #28

Quit derailing.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #41

"Stunt"? Excuse me, but a a woman standing up for her rights isn't a "Stunt". Kurska Apr 2013 #49

So your message to Amina is "sit down, you're rocking the boat"? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #85

What part of "Islam is the OFFICIAL STATE religion" is hard to understand? nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #18

See post 19. redqueen Apr 2013 #20

"People are working so hard to manufacture reality based on what they want to be true." opiate69 Apr 2013 #22

Like these people? polly7 Apr 2013 #24

By the constitution, it's a Muslim nation -- and 98% of citizens are Muslim. pnwmom Apr 2013 #74

When the American Constitution theKed Apr 2013 #36

Holy Christ, I have to laugh at the thrashing, the struggling, the twisting... Bonobo Apr 2013 #191

Yes. And nowhere did I say that muslimahs support Islamic fundamentalists nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #13

I misread... redqueen Apr 2013 #16

This again? name not needed Apr 2013 #17

I know, right? randome Apr 2013 #27

One size does not fit all when it comes to feminists sufrommich Apr 2013 #23

not really doing shit in ukraine and tunisia either. seabeyond Apr 2013 #37

Are you using 'girls' to put these women down, or do you believe they're minors? polly7 Apr 2013 #46

My 83-year-old mother calls her group of friends "the girls." Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #51

Oh, I call my friends girls all the time. It's just odd polly7 Apr 2013 #53

Yeah, it is strange maddezmom Apr 2013 #58

Actually, they remind me of feminist street theater in the 1970s sufrommich Apr 2013 #55

wow, insightful- thank you! bettyellen Apr 2013 #101

Have the ones not running around topless accomplished anything? MattSh Apr 2013 #69

it's "womyn" datasuspect Apr 2013 #160

knowing that anti- Muslim sentiment and bigotry are on the rise in Europe, I wish Femen had bettyellen Apr 2013 #25

You do know that their support was for a "local feminist" Amina, a Muslim woman riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #34

from what I read all their "support" is virtual- and she only "joined" immediately prior to her bettyellen Apr 2013 #63

Someone's hiding her right now so she has support from somewhere. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #66

so Femen might possibly be helping her? OK. Maybe the younger generation needed a refresher course bettyellen Apr 2013 #68

Islam specifically, not just Abrahamic religions. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #35

Thank you...It's about time whathehell Apr 2013 #57

This Liberal Atheist 'tragically' equates all three Trajan Apr 2013 #65

I note that all your comments are phrased in the past tense. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #72

A pox on them all. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #157

Hmmm, I agree with Femen that Catholicism is pretty awful to women. Forced birthing and all... bettyellen Apr 2013 #67

Islamophobia is not an acceptable substitute for knowledge of history. Scootaloo Apr 2013 #170

+1000 - Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #187

You'll note that I was talking about "are", while you insist on talking about "were". Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #219

Personally I could be wrong but from what I'm seeing alot of it has to do with Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #26

yeah, when you combine that with their lack of policy goals or work WITHIN the community bettyellen Apr 2013 #81

Well, I hope FEMEN is thoughfully processing the reactions it has provoked. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #29

I'm listening to Common People by Pulp. randome Apr 2013 #30

The best thing about this thread.... CobblePuller Apr 2013 #31

I hope FEMEN keep protesting LittleBlue Apr 2013 #32

I get this, but Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #33

but how about the muslim women who are not covered , many wear shirts and jeans JI7 Apr 2013 #188

And, you do realize that freedom is under threat, right??? Hence the protesting??? opiate69 Apr 2013 #192

Brutal oppression of women? NEVER EVER OKAY, well except if it is done by Muslims. Kurska Apr 2013 #38

Well... I would add... opiate69 Apr 2013 #39

Oh yeah I forgot how we all need to be DISGUSTED by the human body. Kurska Apr 2013 #40

Bare breasts are patriarchy, you know. nt msanthrope Apr 2013 #45

Meh.. not my best attempt at humor..Nurse, more coffee, Stat! opiate69 Apr 2013 #48

Thanks a lot Prism Apr 2013 #60

lol sorry! (And dammit.. I guess I edited too soon) opiate69 Apr 2013 #61

Probably a wise edit Prism Apr 2013 #62

I agree. Apophis Apr 2013 #42

Red herring. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #47

I've seen more threads in GD in the past fews days criticizing FEMEN Kurska Apr 2013 #56

But they're nothing but a European version of Girls Gone Wild drunk on activism instead of booze! JVS Apr 2013 #80

Another boob thread? nt msanthrope Apr 2013 #43

I'm a feminist. I believe in the equality of the sexes in all times and in all places. Kurska Apr 2013 #44

yet, if I recall correctly BainsBane Apr 2013 #50

No woman should ever be fired or mistreated because she is a woman. Kurska Apr 2013 #52

Agreed LittleBlue Apr 2013 #59

Femen is anti-porn and prostitution. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #77

did you see they knocked a nude dancer off the stage and jumped up to rip their shirts off? bettyellen Apr 2013 #94

maybe they don't think women should be paid for it JI7 Apr 2013 #190

They disrupted a womans rights conference, said the women there talk too much, LOL. bettyellen Apr 2013 #193

"There", "Their", "They're". Figure it out. opiate69 Apr 2013 #194

thanks- now what do you think of them hijacking a woman;s right;s conference? or peeing in public bettyellen Apr 2013 #195

Meh.. I'm a big fan of poking the "powers that be" in the eye with a big fucking stick.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #197

change- like the toilets and heat? and closing brothels? it appears they ditched for greener bettyellen Apr 2013 #198

Well, I'm sure they'll appreciate you letting them know which causes are important enough. opiate69 Apr 2013 #199

Yes well as bettyellen has said, no protest is authentic without an action plan! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #200

Yup. opiate69 Apr 2013 #201

I'm sorry Femen had no impact in Russia aside from getting pics published.... no new public toilets bettyellen Apr 2013 #210

I doubt they gave a shit about most of them, except as a ticket out. bettyellen Apr 2013 #202

They guys weren't making it in private, alp227 Apr 2013 #147

There you go again BainsBane Apr 2013 #180

"you do not support EEOC law" I very much do and this conversation is over for that remark. Kurska Apr 2013 #181

Here is all you need to know about that poster, Kurska. opiate69 Apr 2013 #183

Wth? nt. polly7 Apr 2013 #220

I know, right?? opiate69 Apr 2013 #235

Nice find! Didn't know one can create sock puppets and not get their arse booted out idwiyo Apr 2013 #222

As I remember it, creating a sock in and of itself is supposedly OK... however, opiate69 Apr 2013 #229

am interested to know the answer, will keep an eye on it. thanks for the info. :) idwiyo Apr 2013 #230

My pleasure.. definitely one of those "things that make you go 'Hmmmm' " opiate69 Apr 2013 #232

Agree 100% distantearlywarning Apr 2013 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #64

Wait ... what? If "solidarity" is the problem, where's the support for Femen? DirkGently Apr 2013 #70

I'm trying to figure out HOW you support Femen- is "liking them" on Facebook what they want? bettyellen Apr 2013 #73

Name one single social accomplishment in the history of the world that wasn't done polly7 Apr 2013 #75

who didn't know about religions being patriarchal? I guess kids on FB. the only place in the world bettyellen Apr 2013 #76

Idiocracy is minimizing the fight of others because it offends 'you'. polly7 Apr 2013 #78

I'm sorry if you don't like that the whole world is more interested in their method than their msg bettyellen Apr 2013 #86

What's your opinion of Code Pink? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #89

when they have specific legislation and pols targeted I think they are usually great.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #91

Femen have specific targets muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #111

you left out the feminst confrence -"they talk too much" and public toilets.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #196

That's weird when I googled, I found lots of information and links riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #107

i think "one off" photo opportunities are what they are. and it's great they had policy recs for bettyellen Apr 2013 #126

"considered doing something"... opiate69 Apr 2013 #79

Indeed LittleBlue Apr 2013 #92

you tell me- what other "activists" have no action plan at all? bettyellen Apr 2013 #96

It's a little unseemly LittleBlue Apr 2013 #102

so you think they are both wrong and wasting their time, and I'm the one attacking them? bettyellen Apr 2013 #105

I'm not attacking them LittleBlue Apr 2013 #109

oh, well we agree about everything then. HA. go figure. bettyellen Apr 2013 #110

I won't speak for you LittleBlue Apr 2013 #117

Cindy Sheehan comes to mind - nothing more than a simple "slogan". riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #108

Wont even sneer when you compare them to Sheehan, who had very detailed criticism of Bush's foreign bettyellen Apr 2013 #115

All of which evolved out of a slow start with a single slogan. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #123

actually, it's people like me and other activists who find this an interesting topic to discuss... bettyellen Apr 2013 #93

Yes.. contrarian for sport... opiate69 Apr 2013 #98

If you're going to host Oppression Olympics for Islamic women, perhaps you and Femen could recuse bettyellen Apr 2013 #99

Derp.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #100

They seem to be delivering a message. Giving a fair listen would be a start. DirkGently Apr 2013 #83

I'm trying to figure out if they have any realistic goals or message..Ending religion's influence on bettyellen Apr 2013 #90

Sometimes the medium is the message. randome Apr 2013 #116

not much of a message then. :shrug: bettyellen Apr 2013 #119

Obviously YOU don't care that men ORDER you to remain clothed at all times. randome Apr 2013 #125

ha ha, you do realize, men are ALSO ordered to keep clothes on, right? yeah. No one's #1 issue.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #130

Sorry but this is getting old. Amina doesn't need you to tell her @ her message riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #135

i'm sorry if you confuse indifference towards this protest with sneering at a person bettyellen Apr 2013 #171

The thread starter is sneering at her, in reply #19 muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #216

a shocking one off display to capture PR = a stunt bettyellen Apr 2013 #217

Of course, the people who set up the Facebook page are at the University of Birmingham in the UK muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #218

i'm calling the heap of faux outrage here bullshit. bettyellen Apr 2013 #233

bettyellen, I gotta hand it to ya... you don't give up. redqueen Apr 2013 #223

Speaking of word twisting.. one simple question, oh great one.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #234

I don't know. I thought Amina's photo was a thing unto itself. DirkGently Apr 2013 #127

i agree in many ways- but I don't think that the animosity was towards Amina herself, bettyellen Apr 2013 #132

You read that post, though, right? It didn't take the tone the headline suggests. DirkGently Apr 2013 #137

I found the headline pretty offensive, but didn't go apeshit, LOL. bettyellen Apr 2013 #152

Who are you trying to kid? polly7 Apr 2013 #159

would you please stop stalking me? Thank you. bettyellen Apr 2013 #163

Grow up. nt. polly7 Apr 2013 #164

And yet every single one of posters who disagree with FEMEN can't stop talking about nudity, menz idwiyo Apr 2013 #225

Article after article posted about Femen- all about their boobies. We were OT. bettyellen Apr 2013 #228

Is there any evidence that "Muslimah Pride Day" is organised by feminists? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #82

+1 JVS Apr 2013 #84

Sure, the politicians pushing for Sharia law in Tunisia will tell you so, just ask them. stevenleser Apr 2013 #120

Phyllis Schlafly wasn't grateful to fellow American women for their efforts to pass the ERA. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #87

Actually Schlafly would have welcomed comments like sufrommich Apr 2013 #88

5 Myths About Feminism In The Middle East: sufrommich Apr 2013 #95

No you can't... MellowDem Apr 2013 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #97

K&R 99Forever Apr 2013 #103

+2 LittleBlue Apr 2013 #104

count me as another to agree with you for the first... well the second time actually arely staircase Apr 2013 #106

Not all feminists speak for each other as can be seen with the Rex Apr 2013 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Apr 2013 #113

. randome Apr 2013 #118

An interesting comment: polly7 Apr 2013 #114

Faked photo of Femen using antisemitic slogans posted to the anti-Femen Facebook page muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #129

Right. "The Shoah is a Hoax"... Like they'd be putting Holocaust Denial on there. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #131

are they only anti Islam and Catholic then? From what I read it appears they want to destroy bettyellen Apr 2013 #140

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #144

just asking an honest "question". I saw they protested the pope. And cannot find it now, but read bettyellen Apr 2013 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #156

well they ARE extremist when it comes to Islam, so I guess they thought it would be credible. bettyellen Apr 2013 #162

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #165

Not at all having a contest here, but totally hating a religion is extremist also, no? bettyellen Apr 2013 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #173

I said SOMEONE ELSE (someone awful!) might think that. Wax in the ears? bettyellen Apr 2013 #174

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #175

you seemed dense. bettyellen Apr 2013 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #179

it's telling how people are trying to use the issue to slime people here- for having opinions! bettyellen Apr 2013 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #184

that is funny- everyone knows you can't control a porn star! bettyellen Apr 2013 #185

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #186

with any tactic-one needs to ask -"Do you want to ventilate or do you want to advance your cause?" Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #138

I think They are Similar to the Anti Mosque Protestors in the United States JI7 Apr 2013 #142

Well.. in America... opiate69 Apr 2013 #143

the united states hasn't been around for 1800 years, but on issues like abortion, gay rights JI7 Apr 2013 #145

Then, the average American probably can't understand the depth of anger some Europeans have opiate69 Apr 2013 #148

that is true , most americans are way too religious JI7 Apr 2013 #150

So then, leaving the nudity aside, I for one can completely understand the comments about the pope, opiate69 Apr 2013 #151

i would criticize saying "fuck the pope" as a way to win over support JI7 Apr 2013 #153

Everybody thinks the "opposing team's" protest tactics are a bad way to win support. opiate69 Apr 2013 #154

and some think other people on our "team" have half assed strategy bettyellen Apr 2013 #158

"You know that there's something wrong with your protest when..." The Straight Story Apr 2013 #161

I used to be a feminist DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #166

ThreadWin! opiate69 Apr 2013 #168

it's controversial. you should feel free to read up on it, discuss and sort out your feelings here bettyellen Apr 2013 #169

are you not able to read up and find things out yourself and explain why you JI7 Apr 2013 #176

I'm able to make the point I want to make DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #177

Social activists can often be extremely, unintentionally, arrogant. TimberValley Apr 2013 #172

Surprisingly, they also object when Westerners protest stoning people to death. nt Bonobo Apr 2013 #189

really? BainsBane Apr 2013 #203

No, I did not mean those women. Bonobo Apr 2013 #204

How about this? BainsBane Apr 2013 #205

BB, if you are suggesting that all criticism and protesting should be done by prioritization... Bonobo Apr 2013 #206

my suggestion is that peoples have a right to self-determination BainsBane Apr 2013 #207

Honestly? I am conflicted. Bonobo Apr 2013 #208

fair enough BainsBane Apr 2013 #209

Okay, I don't disagree with your statement of principles on that. Bonobo Apr 2013 #211

I dispute the point they don't have a voice BainsBane Apr 2013 #212

By definition, the ones without a voice would be the ones not speaking. Bonobo Apr 2013 #213

I don't really agree that women have no voice anywhere BainsBane Apr 2013 #215

The irony! It burns! By your own words: "instead of preaching to women, or any activist group, idwiyo Apr 2013 #224

This message was self-deleted by its author cliffordu Apr 2013 #214