General Discussion

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)

211. Okay, I don't disagree with your statement of principles on that.

Sun Apr 7, 2013, 01:43 AM

Apr 2013

But let me suggest that the Islamic women arguing that they just love burqas and face veils may NOT be represent of everyone's opinion in those cultures.

I think it is evident that the woman who stand up and say "No, we love our burqas" will face no kickbacks and retaliations because they are "being good women who know their place" while the women who MAY BE against the burqas and the things that go along with it are UNABLE to speak out because of the recriminations and danger they would face.

It is ironic to find us on opposing sides of this. And when the Islamic bloggers complain that Fenem "took their voice away", I also find it ironic because it is obvious that many women in the Muslim countries who may oppose the restrictions they are under already DO NOT HAVE A VOICE.

Are you not possibly discounting the lack of freedom that they have to speak out and thus "over-listening" to the ones that are ALLOWED to speak?

Yes, David Byrne. One of my absolutely most favorite humans.

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Muslim Women Shockingly Not Grateful for Topless European Ladies Trying To Save Them [View all] redqueen Apr 2013 OP

This is the first time I agree with you about something. Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #1

That was necessary. redqueen Apr 2013 #2

meh Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #3

Agree! I gotten to the point where, if it's from a certain group, it goes to trash, this is really Katashi_itto Apr 2013 #226

Relax. Keep your shirt on. randome Apr 2013 #4

You do know they call themselves 'sextremist', right? redqueen Apr 2013 #5

I'm sure there IS more to them than nudity. randome Apr 2013 #8

"Judging the relevance of a protest by comments on an Internet site?" opiate69 Apr 2013 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #121

Refresh my memory.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #124

Concerned Women For America not thrilled with American Feminists Prism Apr 2013 #6

This isn't about Christianity, or Islam... it's about basic human decency. redqueen Apr 2013 #9

Conservative women use the same verbiage against liberal feminists Prism Apr 2013 #54

How does calling them "stupid muslim women" help? sufrommich Apr 2013 #71

Do you think attributing comments by anonymous internet posters to Femen makes your point? stevenleser Apr 2013 #122

Did you read the rest of my post? sufrommich Apr 2013 #128

Why bother, when your thesis statement was so astoundingly intellectually dishonest? opiate69 Apr 2013 #136

It doesn't help I suppose maddezmom Apr 2013 #134

Great point, maddezmom ... though I've yet to actually see a STFU said to anyone here. nt. polly7 Apr 2013 #139

Me neither but it doesn't stop people from saying it maddezmom Apr 2013 #141

+1 onpatrol98 Apr 2013 #227

"anti-religious zealots"? alp227 Apr 2013 #146

Amina is a Muslim woman working in her own cultural context in her own country riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #10

Tunisia is a Muslim country? redqueen Apr 2013 #11

Typical disingenuous parsing bullshit.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #12

So then you agree with fundies that America is a Christian nation, right? redqueen Apr 2013 #14

See the edit in my previous. opiate69 Apr 2013 #15

See the history. redqueen Apr 2013 #19

Yes.. because your "bloggers" are more accurate than Tunisia's actual constitution... opiate69 Apr 2013 #21

How dare you to imply someone should actually read the source! The blogger somewhere idwiyo Apr 2013 #221

Bad ME!!! opiate69 Apr 2013 #231

Amina took her action in direct response to the growing Islamist threat riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #28

Quit derailing.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #41

"Stunt"? Excuse me, but a a woman standing up for her rights isn't a "Stunt". Kurska Apr 2013 #49

So your message to Amina is "sit down, you're rocking the boat"? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #85

What part of "Islam is the OFFICIAL STATE religion" is hard to understand? nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #18

See post 19. redqueen Apr 2013 #20

"People are working so hard to manufacture reality based on what they want to be true." opiate69 Apr 2013 #22

Like these people? polly7 Apr 2013 #24

By the constitution, it's a Muslim nation -- and 98% of citizens are Muslim. pnwmom Apr 2013 #74

When the American Constitution theKed Apr 2013 #36

Holy Christ, I have to laugh at the thrashing, the struggling, the twisting... Bonobo Apr 2013 #191

Yes. And nowhere did I say that muslimahs support Islamic fundamentalists nt riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #13

I misread... redqueen Apr 2013 #16

This again? name not needed Apr 2013 #17

I know, right? randome Apr 2013 #27

One size does not fit all when it comes to feminists sufrommich Apr 2013 #23

not really doing shit in ukraine and tunisia either. seabeyond Apr 2013 #37

Are you using 'girls' to put these women down, or do you believe they're minors? polly7 Apr 2013 #46

My 83-year-old mother calls her group of friends "the girls." Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #51

Oh, I call my friends girls all the time. It's just odd polly7 Apr 2013 #53

Yeah, it is strange maddezmom Apr 2013 #58

Actually, they remind me of feminist street theater in the 1970s sufrommich Apr 2013 #55

wow, insightful- thank you! bettyellen Apr 2013 #101

Have the ones not running around topless accomplished anything? MattSh Apr 2013 #69

it's "womyn" datasuspect Apr 2013 #160

knowing that anti- Muslim sentiment and bigotry are on the rise in Europe, I wish Femen had bettyellen Apr 2013 #25

You do know that their support was for a "local feminist" Amina, a Muslim woman riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #34

from what I read all their "support" is virtual- and she only "joined" immediately prior to her bettyellen Apr 2013 #63

Someone's hiding her right now so she has support from somewhere. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #66

so Femen might possibly be helping her? OK. Maybe the younger generation needed a refresher course bettyellen Apr 2013 #68

Islam specifically, not just Abrahamic religions. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #35

Thank you...It's about time whathehell Apr 2013 #57

This Liberal Atheist 'tragically' equates all three Trajan Apr 2013 #65

I note that all your comments are phrased in the past tense. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #72

A pox on them all. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #157

Hmmm, I agree with Femen that Catholicism is pretty awful to women. Forced birthing and all... bettyellen Apr 2013 #67

Islamophobia is not an acceptable substitute for knowledge of history. Scootaloo Apr 2013 #170

+1000 - Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #187

You'll note that I was talking about "are", while you insist on talking about "were". Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #219

Personally I could be wrong but from what I'm seeing alot of it has to do with Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #26

yeah, when you combine that with their lack of policy goals or work WITHIN the community bettyellen Apr 2013 #81

Well, I hope FEMEN is thoughfully processing the reactions it has provoked. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #29

I'm listening to Common People by Pulp. randome Apr 2013 #30

The best thing about this thread.... CobblePuller Apr 2013 #31

I hope FEMEN keep protesting LittleBlue Apr 2013 #32

I get this, but Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #33

but how about the muslim women who are not covered , many wear shirts and jeans JI7 Apr 2013 #188

And, you do realize that freedom is under threat, right??? Hence the protesting??? opiate69 Apr 2013 #192

Brutal oppression of women? NEVER EVER OKAY, well except if it is done by Muslims. Kurska Apr 2013 #38

Well... I would add... opiate69 Apr 2013 #39

Oh yeah I forgot how we all need to be DISGUSTED by the human body. Kurska Apr 2013 #40

Bare breasts are patriarchy, you know. nt msanthrope Apr 2013 #45

Meh.. not my best attempt at humor..Nurse, more coffee, Stat! opiate69 Apr 2013 #48

Thanks a lot Prism Apr 2013 #60

lol sorry! (And dammit.. I guess I edited too soon) opiate69 Apr 2013 #61

Probably a wise edit Prism Apr 2013 #62

I agree. Apophis Apr 2013 #42

Red herring. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #47

I've seen more threads in GD in the past fews days criticizing FEMEN Kurska Apr 2013 #56

But they're nothing but a European version of Girls Gone Wild drunk on activism instead of booze! JVS Apr 2013 #80

Another boob thread? nt msanthrope Apr 2013 #43

I'm a feminist. I believe in the equality of the sexes in all times and in all places. Kurska Apr 2013 #44

yet, if I recall correctly BainsBane Apr 2013 #50

No woman should ever be fired or mistreated because she is a woman. Kurska Apr 2013 #52

Agreed LittleBlue Apr 2013 #59

Femen is anti-porn and prostitution. Luminous Animal Apr 2013 #77

did you see they knocked a nude dancer off the stage and jumped up to rip their shirts off? bettyellen Apr 2013 #94

maybe they don't think women should be paid for it JI7 Apr 2013 #190

They disrupted a womans rights conference, said the women there talk too much, LOL. bettyellen Apr 2013 #193

"There", "Their", "They're". Figure it out. opiate69 Apr 2013 #194

thanks- now what do you think of them hijacking a woman;s right;s conference? or peeing in public bettyellen Apr 2013 #195

Meh.. I'm a big fan of poking the "powers that be" in the eye with a big fucking stick.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #197

change- like the toilets and heat? and closing brothels? it appears they ditched for greener bettyellen Apr 2013 #198

Well, I'm sure they'll appreciate you letting them know which causes are important enough. opiate69 Apr 2013 #199

Yes well as bettyellen has said, no protest is authentic without an action plan! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #200

Yup. opiate69 Apr 2013 #201

I'm sorry Femen had no impact in Russia aside from getting pics published.... no new public toilets bettyellen Apr 2013 #210

I doubt they gave a shit about most of them, except as a ticket out. bettyellen Apr 2013 #202

They guys weren't making it in private, alp227 Apr 2013 #147

There you go again BainsBane Apr 2013 #180

"you do not support EEOC law" I very much do and this conversation is over for that remark. Kurska Apr 2013 #181

Here is all you need to know about that poster, Kurska. opiate69 Apr 2013 #183

Wth? nt. polly7 Apr 2013 #220

I know, right?? opiate69 Apr 2013 #235

Nice find! Didn't know one can create sock puppets and not get their arse booted out idwiyo Apr 2013 #222

As I remember it, creating a sock in and of itself is supposedly OK... however, opiate69 Apr 2013 #229

am interested to know the answer, will keep an eye on it. thanks for the info. :) idwiyo Apr 2013 #230

My pleasure.. definitely one of those "things that make you go 'Hmmmm' " opiate69 Apr 2013 #232

Agree 100% distantearlywarning Apr 2013 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #64

Wait ... what? If "solidarity" is the problem, where's the support for Femen? DirkGently Apr 2013 #70

I'm trying to figure out HOW you support Femen- is "liking them" on Facebook what they want? bettyellen Apr 2013 #73

Name one single social accomplishment in the history of the world that wasn't done polly7 Apr 2013 #75

who didn't know about religions being patriarchal? I guess kids on FB. the only place in the world bettyellen Apr 2013 #76

Idiocracy is minimizing the fight of others because it offends 'you'. polly7 Apr 2013 #78

I'm sorry if you don't like that the whole world is more interested in their method than their msg bettyellen Apr 2013 #86

What's your opinion of Code Pink? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #89

when they have specific legislation and pols targeted I think they are usually great.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #91

Femen have specific targets muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #111

you left out the feminst confrence -"they talk too much" and public toilets.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #196

That's weird when I googled, I found lots of information and links riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #107

i think "one off" photo opportunities are what they are. and it's great they had policy recs for bettyellen Apr 2013 #126

"considered doing something"... opiate69 Apr 2013 #79

Indeed LittleBlue Apr 2013 #92

you tell me- what other "activists" have no action plan at all? bettyellen Apr 2013 #96

It's a little unseemly LittleBlue Apr 2013 #102

so you think they are both wrong and wasting their time, and I'm the one attacking them? bettyellen Apr 2013 #105

I'm not attacking them LittleBlue Apr 2013 #109

oh, well we agree about everything then. HA. go figure. bettyellen Apr 2013 #110

I won't speak for you LittleBlue Apr 2013 #117

Cindy Sheehan comes to mind - nothing more than a simple "slogan". riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #108

Wont even sneer when you compare them to Sheehan, who had very detailed criticism of Bush's foreign bettyellen Apr 2013 #115

All of which evolved out of a slow start with a single slogan. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #123

actually, it's people like me and other activists who find this an interesting topic to discuss... bettyellen Apr 2013 #93

Yes.. contrarian for sport... opiate69 Apr 2013 #98

If you're going to host Oppression Olympics for Islamic women, perhaps you and Femen could recuse bettyellen Apr 2013 #99

Derp.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #100

They seem to be delivering a message. Giving a fair listen would be a start. DirkGently Apr 2013 #83

I'm trying to figure out if they have any realistic goals or message..Ending religion's influence on bettyellen Apr 2013 #90

Sometimes the medium is the message. randome Apr 2013 #116

not much of a message then. :shrug: bettyellen Apr 2013 #119

Obviously YOU don't care that men ORDER you to remain clothed at all times. randome Apr 2013 #125

ha ha, you do realize, men are ALSO ordered to keep clothes on, right? yeah. No one's #1 issue.... bettyellen Apr 2013 #130

Sorry but this is getting old. Amina doesn't need you to tell her @ her message riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #135

i'm sorry if you confuse indifference towards this protest with sneering at a person bettyellen Apr 2013 #171

The thread starter is sneering at her, in reply #19 muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #216

a shocking one off display to capture PR = a stunt bettyellen Apr 2013 #217

Of course, the people who set up the Facebook page are at the University of Birmingham in the UK muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #218

i'm calling the heap of faux outrage here bullshit. bettyellen Apr 2013 #233

bettyellen, I gotta hand it to ya... you don't give up. redqueen Apr 2013 #223

Speaking of word twisting.. one simple question, oh great one.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #234

I don't know. I thought Amina's photo was a thing unto itself. DirkGently Apr 2013 #127

i agree in many ways- but I don't think that the animosity was towards Amina herself, bettyellen Apr 2013 #132

You read that post, though, right? It didn't take the tone the headline suggests. DirkGently Apr 2013 #137

I found the headline pretty offensive, but didn't go apeshit, LOL. bettyellen Apr 2013 #152

Who are you trying to kid? polly7 Apr 2013 #159

would you please stop stalking me? Thank you. bettyellen Apr 2013 #163

Grow up. nt. polly7 Apr 2013 #164

And yet every single one of posters who disagree with FEMEN can't stop talking about nudity, menz idwiyo Apr 2013 #225

Article after article posted about Femen- all about their boobies. We were OT. bettyellen Apr 2013 #228

Is there any evidence that "Muslimah Pride Day" is organised by feminists? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #82

+1 JVS Apr 2013 #84

Sure, the politicians pushing for Sharia law in Tunisia will tell you so, just ask them. stevenleser Apr 2013 #120

Phyllis Schlafly wasn't grateful to fellow American women for their efforts to pass the ERA. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #87

Actually Schlafly would have welcomed comments like sufrommich Apr 2013 #88

5 Myths About Feminism In The Middle East: sufrommich Apr 2013 #95

No you can't... MellowDem Apr 2013 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #97

K&R 99Forever Apr 2013 #103

+2 LittleBlue Apr 2013 #104

count me as another to agree with you for the first... well the second time actually arely staircase Apr 2013 #106

Not all feminists speak for each other as can be seen with the Rex Apr 2013 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Apr 2013 #113

. randome Apr 2013 #118

An interesting comment: polly7 Apr 2013 #114

Faked photo of Femen using antisemitic slogans posted to the anti-Femen Facebook page muriel_volestrangler Apr 2013 #129

Right. "The Shoah is a Hoax"... Like they'd be putting Holocaust Denial on there. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #131

are they only anti Islam and Catholic then? From what I read it appears they want to destroy bettyellen Apr 2013 #140

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #144

just asking an honest "question". I saw they protested the pope. And cannot find it now, but read bettyellen Apr 2013 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #156

well they ARE extremist when it comes to Islam, so I guess they thought it would be credible. bettyellen Apr 2013 #162

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #165

Not at all having a contest here, but totally hating a religion is extremist also, no? bettyellen Apr 2013 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #173

I said SOMEONE ELSE (someone awful!) might think that. Wax in the ears? bettyellen Apr 2013 #174

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #175

you seemed dense. bettyellen Apr 2013 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #179

it's telling how people are trying to use the issue to slime people here- for having opinions! bettyellen Apr 2013 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #184

that is funny- everyone knows you can't control a porn star! bettyellen Apr 2013 #185

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #186

with any tactic-one needs to ask -"Do you want to ventilate or do you want to advance your cause?" Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #138

I think They are Similar to the Anti Mosque Protestors in the United States JI7 Apr 2013 #142

Well.. in America... opiate69 Apr 2013 #143

the united states hasn't been around for 1800 years, but on issues like abortion, gay rights JI7 Apr 2013 #145

Then, the average American probably can't understand the depth of anger some Europeans have opiate69 Apr 2013 #148

that is true , most americans are way too religious JI7 Apr 2013 #150

So then, leaving the nudity aside, I for one can completely understand the comments about the pope, opiate69 Apr 2013 #151

i would criticize saying "fuck the pope" as a way to win over support JI7 Apr 2013 #153

Everybody thinks the "opposing team's" protest tactics are a bad way to win support. opiate69 Apr 2013 #154

and some think other people on our "team" have half assed strategy bettyellen Apr 2013 #158

"You know that there's something wrong with your protest when..." The Straight Story Apr 2013 #161

I used to be a feminist DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #166

ThreadWin! opiate69 Apr 2013 #168

it's controversial. you should feel free to read up on it, discuss and sort out your feelings here bettyellen Apr 2013 #169

are you not able to read up and find things out yourself and explain why you JI7 Apr 2013 #176

I'm able to make the point I want to make DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #177

Social activists can often be extremely, unintentionally, arrogant. TimberValley Apr 2013 #172

Surprisingly, they also object when Westerners protest stoning people to death. nt Bonobo Apr 2013 #189

really? BainsBane Apr 2013 #203

No, I did not mean those women. Bonobo Apr 2013 #204

How about this? BainsBane Apr 2013 #205

BB, if you are suggesting that all criticism and protesting should be done by prioritization... Bonobo Apr 2013 #206

my suggestion is that peoples have a right to self-determination BainsBane Apr 2013 #207

Honestly? I am conflicted. Bonobo Apr 2013 #208

fair enough BainsBane Apr 2013 #209

Okay, I don't disagree with your statement of principles on that. Bonobo Apr 2013 #211

I dispute the point they don't have a voice BainsBane Apr 2013 #212

By definition, the ones without a voice would be the ones not speaking. Bonobo Apr 2013 #213

I don't really agree that women have no voice anywhere BainsBane Apr 2013 #215

The irony! It burns! By your own words: "instead of preaching to women, or any activist group, idwiyo Apr 2013 #224

This message was self-deleted by its author cliffordu Apr 2013 #214