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CTyankee

(67,743 posts)

219. An intriguing hypothesis, Skraxx!

Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:10 AM

Apr 2013

If it produced such a endgame, it might work the way you see it. But you ask what would Obama have to lose. Well, for one thing, second term presidents usually spend time burnishing their image, not destroying it, for posterity. But I can suppose that he would "sacrifice" his image in the history books to accomplish something more sweeping: a more progressive social agenda in this country. Maybe.

My rep is already a strong member of the Progressive Caucus so I have a bit of a luxury here. But elsewhere in the country will be interesting. The question I have for you is: do you think this issue will trump the prejudice and fear of Dems in the reddest districts in the country over just this one issue?

You may be right and in that case it would be a good outcome. Lots of "ifs" in my mind, however.

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To all those who have been telling us for months . . . [View all] markpkessinger Apr 2013 OP

Just think where SS would be today safeinOhio Apr 2013 #1

Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right cantbeserious Apr 2013 #3

Perfect reply Plucketeer Apr 2013 #234

That's the way I look at it. Hoyt Apr 2013 #4

then you're part of the problem. nt tomp Apr 2013 #199

Nope. You are shortsighted, focusing on one little aspect of a much bigger picture. Hoyt Apr 2013 #201

The much bigger picture, is that they've BOTH been doing it to America. TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #256

My, but that's setting the bar awfully low . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #6

So I'm supposed to be happy with the "lesser of two weevils?" Sorry if I feel betrayed by a firenewt Apr 2013 #21

I think you intended your reply . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #25

Sorry, your are right. Sucks being old firenewt Apr 2013 #30

Beats the alternative BobbyBoring Apr 2013 #90

"the lesser of two weevils" is the perfect description truebluegreen Apr 2013 #218

Not at all. firenewt Apr 2013 #232

How about "the evil of two lessers"? FairWinds Apr 2013 #236

That's not bad either. truebluegreen Apr 2013 #237

Spot on and Smilo Apr 2013 #114

+1 n/t whathehell Apr 2013 #134

Are you implying that they wouldn't just raise the debt ceiling for Romney? JVS Apr 2013 #7

Excellent point! n/t markpkessinger Apr 2013 #10

actually they would not DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #19

That's absurd. Marr Apr 2013 #116

not when they hate Mitt DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #130

It's absurd to claim that the GOP House would refuse to raise the debt ceiling for Marr Apr 2013 #131

The paradox is that GWB actually had the... tex-wyo-dem Apr 2013 #127

That's some serious nonsense. JoePhilly Apr 2013 #228

Chained CPI is a benefits cut lark Apr 2013 #251

Is he cajoling anyone about it? I don't think so. And he did offer it up during the fiscal Maraya1969 Apr 2013 #268

Did I say he did? JVS Apr 2013 #271

It would be in exactly the same place... Demo_Chris Apr 2013 #18

+1 whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #44

+1000. Despite the howling when Obama was elected twice, the GOP knows it can get all of its Nay Apr 2013 #64

It goes both ways Demo_Chris Apr 2013 #74

+1000s (n/t) bread_and_roses Apr 2013 #99

+1 Liberalynn Apr 2013 #151

Only difference is IOKIODI. tblue Apr 2013 #250

With Rmoney donnasgirl Apr 2013 #27

What donnasgirl said curlyred Apr 2013 #142

Except that, Obama was always going to go after what he calls 'entitlement' programs SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #247

We have "entitlement" programs in this country, alright... ReRe Apr 2013 #259

And there you have it... ljm2002 Apr 2013 #34

That's the apologists fallback excuse on everything now Doctor_J Apr 2013 #36

Right. Back in 2004, I said that the Republicans would drive us off a cliff at 60mph Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2013 #52

remember what Obama said about how to change the course of a large ship? Sunlei Apr 2013 #60

What's that? Make three rights to turn left? /nt Marr Apr 2013 #117

no it wasn't that. /nt Sunlei Apr 2013 #118

Well, he sure as shit isn't slowly turning the big ship leftward. /nt Marr Apr 2013 #121

He said he should take his hands off the wheel and let the R's steer? nt delrem Apr 2013 #126

that explains it rather well. robinlynne Apr 2013 #120

Didn't our President say that he and Romney held the same opinions MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #39

Absolutely, and I've been pointing this out periodically ever since. Jackpine Radical Apr 2013 #166

ah, the old 'we suck less' is your knee-jerk defense? KG Apr 2013 #42

That's a very sad and over used rationalization. We deserve so much more. rhett o rick Apr 2013 #62

You mean.. maybe getting cut? quakerboy Apr 2013 #77

Just think where SS would be today demwing Apr 2013 #79

LOL !!! - Perfect !!! WillyT Apr 2013 #129

I'll up that perfect... Oilwellian Apr 2013 #185

Yeah, it'd be safe. Marr Apr 2013 #113

Where it is now. sulphurdunn Apr 2013 #123

But Rmoney is NOT NOT NOT president. pangaia Apr 2013 #147

I don't think that is the point. jerseyjack Apr 2013 #178

Want to buy a bridge? Free Opree house if you pay cash and sign right now. TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #255

Agreed - I Have Lost Patience With The Obama Apologists That Inhabit Many Web Forums cantbeserious Apr 2013 #2

the BOGroupies are the worst Skittles Apr 2013 #141

I'm a member of the Barack Obama Group. blue neen Apr 2013 #154

they've banned MANY true progressives Skittles Apr 2013 #157

Well, it seems to me that you're stating your opinions and criticisms quite emphatically. blue neen Apr 2013 #160

you read it wrong Skittles Apr 2013 #161

I don't believe I read it wrong but will take your word for it. blue neen Apr 2013 #163

.... Skittles Apr 2013 #164

.... abelenkpe Apr 2013 #193

By putting party or celebrity dotymed Apr 2013 #222

The poster made a blanket statement about people in the Barack Obama Group. blue neen Apr 2013 #229

No he made a statement about BOGroupies. TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #257

You better believe it. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #168

And the people who run Summer Hathaway Apr 2013 #179

Links please Andy823 Apr 2013 #5

I think you know how to use Google n/t markpkessinger Apr 2013 #8

Yes I do know how to use google Andy823 Apr 2013 #146

A post has already provided you with a link markpkessinger Apr 2013 #172

Using Search Engines Is Now Considered A Basic Skill cantbeserious Apr 2013 #11

It's a growth rate cut for SS Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #14

Hook. Line. Sinker. GeorgeGist Apr 2013 #26

if you are a disabled worker (worst hit people are these folks) CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #66

Congress would need to exempt the poorest elderly and disabled Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #91

A signifigant number will also see Medicare cuts in the form of increased costs for Medicare. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #169

some people are already paying close to $350.00 a month just for Medicare alone CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #208

Here is the link CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #63

+1000 truebluegreen Apr 2013 #9

They should ask Bernie Sanders . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #12

I wish that guy was my senator, truebluegreen Apr 2013 #15

This guy was once my senator Doctor_J Apr 2013 #41

Wish he was still your senator. I really do. SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #248

Apparently Phlem Apr 2013 #135

Apparently they want us to lose in 2014. truebluegreen Apr 2013 #194

Seriously? Phlem Apr 2013 #198

When Democrats cede the last issue.. sendero Apr 2013 #203

I was there last time it happened Phlem Apr 2013 #258

No, I don't truebluegreen Apr 2013 #215

ROFL. They're too busy polishing their talking points. forestpath Apr 2013 #13

We'll be saved: ProSense Apr 2013 #16

Well, we hope at least . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #23

They keep telling him no and he continues to offer up more. SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #249

We're counting on Boner to save us from Obama Doctor_J Apr 2013 #37

Crazy huh n/t whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #48

and they offer that one up like it's a good thing... KG Apr 2013 #50

That's the beauty of multidimentional chess jsr Apr 2013 #61

Yup. n/t ProSense Apr 2013 #65

Have you said one thing about Obama being wrong on this issue?. ONE?? n-t Logical Apr 2013 #95

I don't remember. Have you checked? n/t ProSense Apr 2013 #106

No need to check actually. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #140

No, I think it's been all the usual Nth dimensional chess/brilliant bluff bullshit. /nt Marr Apr 2013 #122

I know; crazy, right? And they wonder why people don't give a shit about politics. nt Nay Apr 2013 #67

Let's hope Boner never sobers up. Fuddnik Apr 2013 #89

So does that make it ok that Obama put these proposals on the table. Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #56

LOL, so Boehner bails out Obama. Classic. n-t Logical Apr 2013 #94

So. Are you suggesting that Boehner will be the hero here JDPriestly Apr 2013 #98

No, I expect he'll demand a few "concessions". /nt Marr Apr 2013 #119

I will admit DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #17

I remember seeing an interview with Gore Vidal . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #20

For those of us familiar with him, truedelphi Apr 2013 #109

He applied his mind with a bright focus Babel_17 Apr 2013 #183

Gore Vidal woo me with science Apr 2013 #192

At the same time, let's not pretend Hillary Clinton is some economic progressive. HughBeaumont Apr 2013 #227

Agreed on that point . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #266

They are busy genuflecting at their Franklin Mint Obama can do no wrong placards. n/t L0oniX Apr 2013 #22

LOL limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #70

No one ever said he wouldn't propose cuts - jazzimov Apr 2013 #24

Sounds a lot like . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #28

+1 forestpath Apr 2013 #49

Lieberman killed the PO. jazzimov Apr 2013 #82

No . .. markpkessinger Apr 2013 #85

What do you mean "No"? jazzimov Apr 2013 #100

I tend to think Lieberman was a convenient tool TiberiusB Apr 2013 #180

Obama negotiated away the public option behind closed doors. GoneFishin Apr 2013 #252

Hook. Line. Sinker. GeorgeGist Apr 2013 #29

Informed. jazzimov Apr 2013 #83

Do yourself a favor donnasgirl Apr 2013 #31

I'm close to reitrement age. jazzimov Apr 2013 #84

Actually this guy said that Doctor_J Apr 2013 #59

Well, this came pretty close: Hissyspit Apr 2013 #75

Now that is some interesting reading. /nt Marr Apr 2013 #128

if it is "going nowhere" CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #78

Exactly . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #92

As I point out below, that site lists 6 other options jazzimov Apr 2013 #101

I used to work for the Federal gov't CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #104

You mean along with the other 6 options/proposals jazzimov Apr 2013 #97

Bull. Fucking. SHIT. Does "Firebagger" ring a bell? Marr Apr 2013 #124

this is nothing new, he's done it before. and like before, nothing will happen. spanone Apr 2013 #32

Nothing new, and it cost us the house last time quakerboy Apr 2013 #96

I'd hope so, anyway. n/t AverageJoe90 Apr 2013 #188

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #33

how has chained CPI cut your ss check amount and by how much? Sunlei Apr 2013 #35

I'm 52, and don't receive S/S n/t markpkessinger Apr 2013 #38

By all means... sendero Apr 2013 #204

What a disengenous question, you Sunlei, do not know the rules of the exemptions. So your question Bluenorthwest Apr 2013 #230

I don't think the republicans will ever go for current plan because of the entire attached package. Sunlei Apr 2013 #245

If corporations keep raising the price of consumer goods skyhigh, ss checks could be larger? Sunlei Apr 2013 #40

As I said upthread . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #45

I don't think panic is productive, yell and speak up yes but we have to work with what we have. Sunlei Apr 2013 #55

This isn't "disinformation" markpkessinger Apr 2013 #68

well it is a negotiating tactic, go look at the presidents website. It's not just plain old consumer Sunlei Apr 2013 #72

I guess Bernie Sanders doesn't understand political negotiating either . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #73

That's what he said, the consumer price index is part of any bargain. Sunlei Apr 2013 #107

I would be able to collect in 2040 madville Apr 2013 #191

hopefully you can manage to save a bit untill 2040 and not have to survive only on a ss check. Sunlei Apr 2013 #196

Apologize? They're still saying it. senseandsensibility Apr 2013 #43

True that! n/t markpkessinger Apr 2013 #47

K & R !!! WillyT Apr 2013 #46

They've gotten really angry and desperate too Doctor_J Apr 2013 #51

really? missed that one. KG Apr 2013 #54

Read and enjoy Doctor_J Apr 2013 #58

Sweet Jesus Almighty. Let me see if I get this straight. In order to protect the poor, we can't neverforget Apr 2013 #132

When I read posts like that, accusing Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson Doctor_J Apr 2013 #165

It makes me frustrated to know that people are willing to sell out principles neverforget Apr 2013 #171

I had to break out the hip waders to navigate that bullshit. n/t pa28 Apr 2013 #155

There's a similarity between the writing style OnyxCollie Apr 2013 #177

"...I wonder whether or not they actually give a shit about children." WorseBeforeBetter Apr 2013 #102

last week's talking point was "drones are a white thing to worry about" MisterP Apr 2013 #253

He might just be toying with the Republicans Warpy Apr 2013 #53

It is a cruel ugly game CountAllVotes Apr 2013 #57

What was it bvar posted? "Daddy's gambling with the rent money again."..... socialist_n_TN Apr 2013 #143

It's nutty. I simply cannot see the upside to this for him. It's lose-lose. CTyankee Apr 2013 #211

The Risk Is His To Take, That's How You Use Political Capital Skraxx Apr 2013 #216

I have two suggestions: jonthebru Apr 2013 #69

+ 1. n/t truedelphi Apr 2013 #110

please don't hold yer breath for that apology. nt limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #71

I'm not really n/t markpkessinger Apr 2013 #81

Like who? I don't recall reading such posts. Link, please? Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #76

Kess is just here to light a flame war...eom Kolesar Apr 2013 #80

I have better things to do with my time than to start flame wars markpkessinger Apr 2013 #87

Then why start them? jazzimov Apr 2013 #103

Oh, I get it . . . markpkessinger Apr 2013 #264

I looks like a fillibuster by Bernie might be our only hope. ISW Apr 2013 #86

Welcome to DU. n/t truedelphi Apr 2013 #111

Yeah, but what if Hitler won WWII? Iggo Apr 2013 #88

seriously.... mike_c Apr 2013 #93

Maybe you would have like to have seen what Romney and the GOP would have done liberal N proud Apr 2013 #105

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Hissyspit Apr 2013 #112

That's just silly curlyred Apr 2013 #145

That's right ...play good cop bad cop. n/t L0oniX Apr 2013 #181

So tired of this old BS line. 840high Apr 2013 #187

Not nearly as tired as some of us are of the constant bashing of whoever is in power liberal N proud Apr 2013 #207

K&R DeSwiss Apr 2013 #108

This is what happens when you bring a 3D chess set to a street brawl JHB Apr 2013 #263

Some try to show others how to reach the door..... DeSwiss Apr 2013 #272

For all of us of SS age, let's give up the drug coverage we got a few years ago. That'll pay for Hoyt Apr 2013 #115

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid Hoyt. Cleita Apr 2013 #136

The reality of the global situation has sunk in. Hence, my post. Eom Hoyt Apr 2013 #139

but it doesn't make sense. Making the least pay the most and the most pay the least is CTyankee Apr 2013 #150

Those with least have protections. Besides, we all are going to be scraping for a living Hoyt Apr 2013 #156

I worship at the altar of Paul Krugman who has a basic disagreement with you on this. CTyankee Apr 2013 #158

Did they cut our SS when drug coverage was enacted? Hoyt Apr 2013 #167

Krugman has stated that he thinks the repubs just want to get rid of SS and Medicare and CTyankee Apr 2013 #197

Point is, we seniors have had some significant improvement s in recent years. Hoyt Apr 2013 #200

The problem with the drug benefit was that it wasn't paid for, not that it existed. CTyankee Apr 2013 #209

So. do you propose to scrap drug benefit? People howling over possible Hoyt Apr 2013 #210

The drug benefit is obviously a problem as long as we have drug companies ripping off CTyankee Apr 2013 #212

Making drugs competitive, should definitely be a priority. Hoyt Apr 2013 #231

so why aren't we doing for Medicare what we did for the VA? CTyankee Apr 2013 #233

Probably for same reason that some Medicare beneficiaries Hoyt Apr 2013 #235

No. Because CCPI is a form of austerity and it won't work anyway, except to make older CTyankee Apr 2013 #240

"Those with least have protections" holy mind fuck. Rmoney said about the same thing. n/t L0oniX Apr 2013 #182

Obama says it every time too, yet you are ready to trash him Hoyt Apr 2013 #202

Yea ...it really pisses off the worshippers when you trash their idol. L0oniX Apr 2013 #244

what you are advocating for, in an abbreviated form, is austerity. And that is exactly CTyankee Apr 2013 #162

I have been wrong a few times in my life and have always wilsonbooks Apr 2013 #125

Good point. Your theory makes sense. n/t Cleita Apr 2013 #137

Why would Obama need to do that? He will have command of huge amounts of money CTyankee Apr 2013 #153

Please, chervilant Apr 2013 #133

Don't hold your breath. kurtzapril4 Apr 2013 #138

Well, I'm very sorry to have been wrong bhikkhu Apr 2013 #144

Consolation? That was predictable. joshcryer Apr 2013 #152

Putting SS on the table was Obama's campaign promise. joshcryer Apr 2013 #148

January 2008 before the inauguration Obama spoke of the deficit ... slipslidingaway Apr 2013 #170

Yes it was. DURHAM D Apr 2013 #175

Remember this - DURHAM D Apr 2013 #176

Link or slink. nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #186

Link: joshcryer Apr 2013 #190

Well #$%^ me. MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #224

I didn't say he'd never propose it rucky Apr 2013 #149

I've been saying he's going to do this for months customerserviceguy Apr 2013 #159

To say... uriel1972 Apr 2013 #173

Don't hold your breath waiting for me to apolgize. rury Apr 2013 #174

Explain how this helps TiberiusB Apr 2013 #189

That's a theory.. sendero Apr 2013 #205

Tiberius, just when I begin to think my classical education saidsimplesimon Apr 2013 #261

Where are the apologies Summer Hathaway Apr 2013 #184

Obama gets no credit for that. Occulus Apr 2013 #246

No credit for repealing DADT? AtomicKitten Apr 2013 #260

No, he never *intended* to do it AT ALL. Occulus Apr 2013 #265

FFS. That is complete and utter nonsense. AtomicKitten Apr 2013 #267

It was the consensus at the time Occulus Apr 2013 #269

I assure you the majority of the LGBT community AtomicKitten Apr 2013 #270

... Summer Hathaway Apr 2013 #273

DADT doesn't take substantial money away from the 1%. It is fluff. GoneFishin Apr 2013 #254

Yawn. Let me know when legislation of this kind hits the President's desk for signature... OldDem2012 Apr 2013 #195

I always assume the pom pom brigade is writing from the WH basement. blkmusclmachine Apr 2013 #206

If Obama REALLY Wants These Cuts To Happen, WHY Is He Demanding Tax Hikes Too? Skraxx Apr 2013 #213

good question. My "guess" is that he anticipated Boehner's reply which was basically CTyankee Apr 2013 #214

There's A Dynamic and Positioning Playing Out That People Are Missing Skraxx Apr 2013 #217

An intriguing hypothesis, Skraxx! CTyankee Apr 2013 #219

It's His Sacrifice To Make However I Think He Sees The Splintering of the GOP to be a Worthy Endgame Skraxx Apr 2013 #220

think this thing out, tho. Does SS preservation trump all the social issues in these red CTyankee Apr 2013 #221

It Doesn't Have To Trump Everything in Red Districts Skraxx Apr 2013 #223

It seems to me that our big problem in taking back the House is because of redistricting. CTyankee Apr 2013 #225

He knows that Our grandparents are getting fucked already... Orsino Apr 2013 #242

So you mean he's going to CAVE and make the deal this time ... right? JoePhilly Apr 2013 #226

It really burns my ass that I have to rely on Republican intransigence to preserve SS. nt eilen Apr 2013 #238

The chained CPI is off the table Larrylarry Apr 2013 #239

A sad K&R PolitFreak Apr 2013 #241

Don't hold your breath -- they are frozen in a state of righteousness stupidicus Apr 2013 #243

As I understood it, the argument was that AtomicKitten Apr 2013 #262

KICK! QC Apr 2013 #274