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dmallind

(10,437 posts)
12. Some thoughts - I lived through almost all her tenure
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 03:05 PM
Apr 2013

Firstly, some answerers are oversimplifying. While the party picks their leader and the leader becomes PM when their party has a majority, this doesn't mean that she was elected in secret or unknown to the electorate. She was elected - three times - as the known leader of the Conservative party with 100% certainty that she would be PM if the party won enough seats.

Her opposition does bear some blame true. UK politics is not quite as image-drenched as US analogs, but Foot - a wild-haired dishevelled slob spouting 30s-era socialism - was an easy opponent to ridicule, and with some merit. Clearly the idea that all was well with the competitiveness and quality of British Leyland and the cost-effectiveness of paying more in labor alone to extract coal than it was worth, and that the country wanted more of the same, was a poor gameplan. Unemployment was above 11% both times she was REelected too and still the electorate had less faith in Labour responses than hers. Kinnock was an ineffectual type who couldn't shake the old style socialism still rampant in Labour at the time. People on DU tend to be fond of socialism, but 1970s UK is as close to it as I ever want to come. I've actually lived in a broadly nationalized heavily socialized society. In reality it is a retardant economic system - a drag on progress and innovation and, often, common sense.

Geography plays a role though. While gerrymandering per se is far less of an issue in th UK than here, regional political differences are if anything MORE pronounced. TX is flirting with purpleness, SC may be on the horizon, but Jeffrey Dahmer would win a Labour seat in much of the industrial Northeast of England running against Jesus as a Tory. Likewise, many areas in the well to do Home Counties will never go Labour. The South, obviously as a generalization with exceptions, is a Tory stronghold, and that's where most of the people are.

Lets be honest too, racism helped. Thatcher wasn't openly racist in a Duke or even Thurmond mold, but her much tougher, by UK standards, approach to immigration and integration appealed more to those who were. There has been a sizeable racist contingent in UK politics for decades, from the National Front to the BNP to the EDL or whatever they are calling themselves now. Integration is often less advanced even than in the US, with heavily Asian, and to a much lesser extent Afro-Carribean areas forming almost entirely differentiated enclaves. For reasons both good but mostly racist, the resentment of the white majority was palpable throughout her tenure. "Paki-Bashing" was an open and even competitive "sport" in my youth amongst the racist set, and this attitude was nowhere near as frowned upon as it is today. What causes careers to end here and now made them there and then, with comedians like Manning and his more gentle versions like Davidson given prime time TV slots to tell racist jokes to most of the country. Which party do you think those influenced by that type of slime supported? The NF had the extremists, but the much more populous "simple" racists went Tory.

The era only ended, as stated above, when Labour finally shook off the Tony Benn style of socialism and formed a credible opposition. Blair surely is a warmongering toady, but he did at least make it possible to change the rate and some of the direction of Thatcherism in the UK. Just as in the US, the "Third Way" can win, while socialism cannot. Labour, to their credit, learned that way too late in Thatcher's career to stop her.



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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Prime Ministers aren't elected. They are chosen by party members with the most seats. JaneyVee Apr 2013 #1
that was too easy JaneyVee warrior1 Apr 2013 #4
The Labour opposition was pathetic, with ridiculous policies. Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #2
this makes it clear that you oppose left wing policies CreekDog Apr 2013 #16
I oppose unilateral nuclear disarmament. Don't you? (nt) Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #22
stop moving the goal posts (but yes, I support nuclear disarmament of England) CreekDog Apr 2013 #24
What am I "running away from"? I'll say it again, unilateral nuclear disarmament was a stupid policy Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #30
you're running away from your criticism of left wing policies CreekDog Apr 2013 #31
OK. I will say for the record that I fully stand by, am not ashamed of, and am not running away from Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #37
What is the value of "left wing policies" that will never be implemented... brooklynite Apr 2013 #54
And, the poor Brits ended up with (ugh!) Tony Blair and 3rd Way/Tory policies. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #19
Reagan's opponents weren't just weak, there was a LOT of anti-incumbent sentiment Blue_Tires Apr 2013 #3
Here's some good info about those times... JoeBlowToo Apr 2013 #51
Carter alienated the working base of the Party and refused to help the Party with fund raising and byeya Apr 2013 #52
Greed sells. Reagan did not win "because" of his opponents unblock Apr 2013 #5
No, there was a specific grievance in Reagan's case that went unaddressed by Democrats, Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2013 #9
i agree indexing brackets made sense, but that was hardly a major issue unblock Apr 2013 #46
I got my first job in Aug of 79, Benton D Struckcheon Apr 2013 #53
Reagan won because of the October Surprise. KittyWampus Apr 2013 #21
that was indeed a large factor. imagine if the hostage crisis had been resolved under carter. unblock Apr 2013 #47
I voted for Jimmy Carter Go Vols Apr 2013 #45
likewise, and agreed. unblock Apr 2013 #48
With one or two exceptions, people like her always seems fairly reasonable Aristus Apr 2013 #6
Also Reagan was a throwback marions ghost Apr 2013 #15
"...those unruly kids of the 60's-70's." KansDem Apr 2013 #32
Yeah marions ghost Apr 2013 #67
Political deals with her party and the other parties. Cleita Apr 2013 #7
And Obama didn't get it and re-elected "because" his opponents are far-right nutcases. Rather... GodlessBiker Apr 2013 #8
people are stupid bowens43 Apr 2013 #10
Same way we got Reagan. Bad Economy and FEARmongering CBGLuthier Apr 2013 #11
Some thoughts - I lived through almost all her tenure dmallind Apr 2013 #12
'third way can win while socialism can not'. lol. 'third way' = neoliberalism & the public hates HiPointDem Apr 2013 #14
Sure - that's why we have all those Congresspeople advocating nationalization eh? dmallind Apr 2013 #25
umm -- what party ever advocated for the people controlling the means of production? In HiPointDem Apr 2013 #27
interesting perspective-thanks for the post Johonny Apr 2013 #26
reagan got in because of psyops. so did thatcher. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #13
The elephant in the room. ananda Apr 2013 #17
Like Reagan, she appealed to middle class fears about the poor. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #18
It's much more surprising when people who *aren't* ruthless attain power. Marr Apr 2013 #20
1) Prime Ministers aren't elected and 2) Harmful leaders take power all the time CreekDog Apr 2013 #23
People saw what they wanted to see in Reagan Yavin4 Apr 2013 #28
We could say the same thing about Bush Coyotl Apr 2013 #29
How'd Boner become Speaker of the House? sadbear Apr 2013 #33
Ask a question WilliamPitt Apr 2013 #34
Why don't you bring up GWB/Cheney? blogslut Apr 2013 #35
She got the leadership of the Tories dsc Apr 2013 #36
She was "evil" because saying so ad nauseum is good for one's DU cred. cherokeeprogressive Apr 2013 #38
allowing tenants to buy their "council houses". You CLEARLY have no IDEA of the effect: WinkyDink Apr 2013 #59
Wow! Thanks for the sermon! nt. OldDem2012 Apr 2013 #61
Allowing tenents to buy council houses? vanlassie Apr 2013 #63
From my reading of the last few days... BlueCheese Apr 2013 #39
You don't really grasp the U.K.'s parliamentary system, do you? n/t markpkessinger Apr 2013 #40
You don't directly elect prime ministers. That said, even she barely saw it coming at the time. (nt) Posteritatis Apr 2013 #41
What planet have you been on for the past 10,000 years or so TheKentuckian Apr 2013 #42
You have GOT to be kidding, right? n/t Jamastiene Apr 2013 #43
Thanks for asking this question.... LeftInTX Apr 2013 #44
The same way any of these psychopaths get in. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #49
A not insignificant reason was the existence of the Social Democratic Party Denzil_DC Apr 2013 #50
Pretty neat trick, considering it was formed two years after Thatcher was elected... brooklynite Apr 2013 #56
That's bogus. How many elections did the Tories win under Thatcher? Denzil_DC Apr 2013 #57
Still not seeing how this is SDP's fault brooklynite Apr 2013 #62
"There's always been a third party in the UK." Denzil_DC Apr 2013 #64
...and my wife was there as well (at Oxford). brooklynite Apr 2013 #65
I was there. If it tells you nothing, that's not my problem. Denzil_DC Apr 2013 #66
nixon won 2 terms...shit happens spanone Apr 2013 #55
What?? WinkyDink Apr 2013 #58
The 1970s had two oil crises that hit all the advanced economies quite hard. JVS Apr 2013 #60
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